W3C

- DRAFT -

WAI UA

26 Sep 2013

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, +1.425.883.aaaa, Kelly, Jan
Regrets
Jim_A., Kim_P.
Chair
Kelly Ford
Scribe
Jan

Contents


<kford> trackbot start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 26 September 2013

<scribe> Scribe: Jan

Update on publishing Last Call

JS: A complaint was filed to Judy that we were violating Process by going to last call without addressing text customization
... Met with Judy about this
... I proposed we go to last call then work on the text customization piece
... But might cause a third last call
... Discussed with chairs
... I couldn't guarantee how long it would take
... If it will take longer than a month to add these pieces, we should be ok to go to last call regardless.
... So now, I'd like to look at what would be straightforward to do and what might take longer.

Attachment: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/att-0116/implementing-uaag-text.html

<scribe> ACTION: Jeanne to mark changes up into a new draft using 'new' and 'remove' styles (including the Intent of 1.4 even though that section doesn't match our current style). [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-888 - Mark changes up into a new draft using 'new' and 'remove' styles (including the intent of 1.4 even though that section doesn't match our current style). [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-03].

GL: I'm about 2 thirds of the way through this stuff and will send comments soon.

proposals for 3.3.2

JS: Was working on it, but not sure what the final decision was

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0113.html

<scribe> ACTION: Jeanne remove or renumber "See guideline 5.3 for information about documentation." [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-889 - Remove or renumber "see guideline 5.3 for information about documentation." [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-03].

GL: Also table of contents needs fixing

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to review table of contents and links [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-890 - Review table of contents and links [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-10-03].

<Greg> Technically, if the conformance claim is on the web, couldn't someone claim that it counted as documentation, just as much as Knowledge Base entries on their web site?

<scribe> ACTION: Jan to refine the definition of Documentation to rule out the conformance claim, user forum questions, etc. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-891 - Refine the definition of documentation to rule out the conformance claim, user forum questions, etc. [on Jan Richards - due 2013-10-03].

<Greg> Just to be clear, I would not veto the previously proposed wording, even though I feel it has potential loopholes.

<Greg> It should be fine to put a note in the Implementing document that provides general guidance on what is and isn't within the spirit of the requirement.

<Greg> Or maybe put the Note under the definition of Documentation.

<Greg> My original comments are at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0111.html.

<Greg> They're also beneath your reply.

<scribe> ACTION: Jan to update the Intent of the IER of 3.3.2 to try to addess greg's concerns in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0111.html. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-892 - Update the intent of the ier of 3.3.2 to try to addess greg's concerns in http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/w3c-wai-ua/2013julsep/0111.html. [on Jan Richards - due 2013-10-03].

proposals for 1.4

JS: That's my stuff from above

<jeanne> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0110.html

From timely final tweaks before Last Call

JS: I was doing Greg's tweaks

<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/UAAG20/#sc_188

JS: And I got down to 4. Re Split of 1.8.1 and 1.8.x Customize Highlighting

If we decide to keep 1.8.x, it should be reworded because the agreed-upon wording does not work when taken out of context (i.e. it talks about highlighting, not about highlighting viewports). It should be changed to something like "When highlighting viewports as specified by 1.8.1 Highlight Viewport, highlighting options include at least" (which parallels the wording of 1.3.2, Highlighting...

scribe: Options).

4. In the chat of 2013-07-18 I'd suggested that we add to 1.3.2 "(d) shape and size when the indicator is an image", but it was at the very end and we didn't end up discussing it.

5. If we don't merge 1.8.x into 1.3, I suggest adding to 1.3.2 an additional list item, "blink rate, where blinking is implemented", thus paralleling the fact that blinking is referenced in 1.8.x.

JR: Not sure about "shape"

<Greg> Yes, Jan, I can see that "shape" could be confusing. I was thinking of the different images (e.g. replacing Google's bunch of balloons with another image), but that's not clear.

<Greg> We could say "image"?

<Greg> Or drop that and just use size? But would color perhaps be a a problem, e.g. dark image when the user changes to dark background?

JR: Could we just keep at size?

<Greg> Dropping to size would be okay.

<Greg> (Changing images--sprites--is no more difficult than changing your user's profile image, etc.)

<Greg> Dropping to size would be okay.

(d) size, when the indicator is an image

JR: GL's proposal was 1.8.8 When highlighting viewports as specified by 1.8.1 Highlight Viewport, highlighting options include at least

<Greg> The proposed change to that is based on the wording of "1.3.2 Highlighting Options: When highlighting classes specified by 1.3.1 Highlighted Items, the user can..."

<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-UAAG20-20130925/MasterUAAG20130925.html

<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-UAAG20-20130925/MasterUAAG20130925.html#sc_188

<Greg> Re 1.8.8, we want to say something like "where applicable", as we don't want to imply they have to add blinking, only make it adjustable where it's implemented, right?

<Greg> Even things like stroke width don't always apply--it can be highlighted just by inverting the colors, for instance.

JR: And remove "shape"

<Greg> Does this apply only to graphical viewports?

1.8.8 Customize Viewport Highlighting:

When highlighting viewports as specified by 1.8.1 Highlight Viewport, highlighting options include at least: (Level AA)

size

color

stroke width (where implemented)

blink rate (where implemented)

<Greg> Does the proposed wording require they allow increasing the size of the highlighted title bar of the active window?

JR: Should "stroke width" be "borders (color, style, thickness)" from 1.3.2?
... OK to remove "size"

<Greg> I'm a little confused over what is and isn't required/allowed/expected by 1.8.8, and what's used today.

<Greg> Often the active viewport is today highlighted only with a keyboard focus indicator--is that enough, or not?

<Greg> Presumably it's not as much as we'd like.

<Greg> So having the viewport contain a text cursor that is customizable, good enough or not? I think it does not meet the intent.

<Greg> Color is *always* foreground and background.

<Greg> Changing one or the other leads to invisible text.

<Greg> Not necessarily of the entire contents, but of the border, title bar, etc.

<Greg> In this case.

<Greg> The UA should not have to allow choosing between many different highlighting mechanisms, but we may want to define a minimum, and say that any attributes it uses should be customizable.

JR: Not sure example in 1.8.1 is of a viewport...its highlighting controls

<Greg> That is, we don't want to require changing color of the content of the active viewport, but if the UA provides that option it must allow changing both foreground and backgroun.

<Greg> Similarly we don't require highlighting with a border, but if it provides that, it must allow changing color and thickness of that border.

<jeanne> When highlighting viewports as specified in 1.8.1, the highlighting mechanisms must be customizable

When highlighting viewports as specified by 1.8.1 Highlight Viewport, the highlighting mechanism must be customizable (e.g., blink rate, border style).

<Greg> "the user can customize attributes of the highlighting mechanism"? To try to avoid implying that we require choosing additional mechanisms.

<Greg> "(e.g. blink rate for blinking, color and width of borders)"

1.8.8 Customize Viewport Highlighting: The user can customize attributes of the viewport highlighting mechanism (e.g., blink rate, border style).

1.8.8 Customize Viewport Highlighting: The user can customize attributes of the viewport highlighting mechanism (e.g. blink rate for blinking, color and width of borders).

<Greg> Oops, you lost the reference to 1.8.1.

1.8.8 Provide Viewport Highlighting Options: The user can customize attributes of the viewport highlighting mechanism (e.g. blink rate for blinking, color and width of borders).

<Greg> Looks good! (Once the list is removed).

JS: 1.8.8 Customize Viewport Highlighting: When highlighting viewports as specified by 1.8.1 Highlight Viewport, the user can customize attributes of the viewport highlighting mechanism (e.g. blink rate for blinking, color and width of borders). (Level AA)

<Greg> Did you want to keep thickness as a border attribute?

<Greg> I left that out.

<Greg> Sorry, "style".

<Greg> Okay to leave out of the SC itself, can be in examples.

<Greg> Jan, did you agree with my proposals?

JR: We are finished Greg's comments re: 1.8.8 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0110.html

<Greg> I think the whole "style" thing was about choosing solid over dotted, etc., but probably fine.

<Greg> Jan, did you review and agree with my other proposals in the email, the ones Jeanne had no questions about?

JS: Looking at some others...
... 1.6.5 def can add those phrases to the intent

EO comment 2010?

JS: Jim and I need to look back into 2010 to see what the reolutions were.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Jan to refine the definition of Documentation to rule out the conformance claim, user forum questions, etc. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Jan to update the Intent of the IER of 3.3.2 to try to addess greg's concerns in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0111.html. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne remove or renumber "See guideline 5.3 for information about documentation." [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to mark changes up into a new draft using 'new' and 'remove' styles (including the Intent of 1.4 even though that section doesn't match our current style). [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to review table of contents and links [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-minutes.html#action03]
 
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$Date: 2013-09-26 18:30:27 $

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Found Scribe: Jan
Inferring ScribeNick: Jan
Default Present: Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, +1.425.883.aaaa, Kelly, Jan
Present: Jeanne Greg_Lowney +1.425.883.aaaa Kelly Jan
Regrets: Jim_A. Kim_P.
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0114.html
Found Date: 26 Sep 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-ua-minutes.html
People with action items: jan jeanne

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