Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference -- 03 Sep 2013

<trackbot> Date: 03 September 2013

<scribe> scribe: azaroth

<karen> +1

<mgylling> scribe: azaroth

Can we have a volunteer at this stage to scribe while we're discussing the annotation use cases?

Markus: Agenda is as we expect it. Reviewing use cases from the wiki as the main activity. Either new or ones becoming accepted.
... First about logistics. Been asked to mention again TPAC again in China in November. Will be having a work session and also intent to start outreach to other WGs. If you can attend you should, if you will then you need to register ASAP
... The reason we are pushing is that visas take time to get.
... Next, new members. We have George_walkley from Hachette.

GeorgeWalkley: I am the head of digital for Hachette in the UK and commonwealth. Am responisble for ebooks and other products. SIt on a number of industry standards, chair of UK publishers association digital group that represents most UK publishers.
... nominated as rep for Hachette globally on this group. Particular areas of interest are interactivity, especially for assessments, and to an extent comics and manga.

Markus: Thank you George. The other participant from Hachette is Pierre from Paris. He said over email that he has a constant issue with this time/day.

George: Will talk with Pierre Danet so hope to represent him when he can't make it

Markus: Not the only person to have the timing issue, up to 4 or 5 people, so wondering if we should do a poll to find a better slot.

Theirry: Fine to organize a new time if necessary if we can find a better slot, not easy given global distribution

Markus: Thierry takes care of a new doodle, including existing day and time.
... Any suggestions for time/day other than this? Or just looking at new day?

(tumbleweed)

<tmichel> ACTION thierry to raganize a doodle with new timing, and keeping the existing one.

<trackbot> Created ACTION-5 - Raganize a doodle with new timing, and keeping the existing one. [on Thierry Michel - due 2013-09-10].

Brady: Any time other than this is good, as always on a bus
... 2pm Pacific in IDPF is normally good

Markus: Very late in Europe, and have a fair number. Thierry perhaps we could give an alternate time?

fjh: becomes very early in pacific/mountain

<tmichel> any proposal on another slot and day ?

<tmichel> push 2 or three hours ahead ?

Markus: Would be better in Pacific, so might get better silicon valley attendance

<tmichel> later in europe and of course in California

<tmichel> add an option two hours latter

Markus: Theirry please add an option for two hours later and we'll see what preferences are

Theirry: that means keeping the same day, or try another day?

Markus: This time and 2 hours later, every day, so 10 options

<tmichel> 10 options 2 hours latter and current slot every day ...

Markus: Moving on....

Regrets from a lot of people next week.

scribe: Thierry, can I add multiple regrets, or will it overwrite? There's a meeting with US publishers next week, including myself, so a heads-up that many people will be absent

<fjh> regrets for 17 Sept (in two weeks)

<tmichel> regrets also from Markus next week

scribe: I suggest we still hold the meeting, unless it doesn't work for you

<tmichel> Keep the meeting next week with Madi chairing

Madi: Okay, but nervious as first meeting chaired

Markus: How to best funnel requirements from EPUB implementation back to here? How to represent future requests and visions present there

Madi: Have a slide calling for use cases in my presentation

Markus: With some luck can also get new members
... Great, Use cases... in order to recap, the activity is all happening on the wiki. George if you don't have a link ...

George: I have it

Markus: We've laid out things to get started to hone in on a few topics. Those are annotation, which Rob Sanderson is heading up, MathML which JeanKaplansky is working on

<tmichel> refer to http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Template

Markus: those are the two areas with activity. I've been scouting for requirements for pagination, Have a lead so hope to get going there as well

<tmichel> and directory http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory

Markus: That said and remains true for all of us, if there's a particular domain existing or new that you want to work on, it's very welcome to do that
... There's no prohibitions to working on it, in any state, don't need to seek a blessing. Just putting everything that's added as NEW and will take it through review to get it finalized. Can reject things that are out of scope or insignificant
... if you have time to spare and expertise, the wiki is your friend.
... Looking at recent changes, I can tell that last week's requests to refine MathML and structural semantics not done yet, but new ones for annotation from Rob
... In order to stick with scheme, my suggestion is that we review the new ones
... before we start, a new scribe?

<karen> scribenick: Karen

Rob: I put up four new use cases
... all of which are reasonably straight forward
... first one is reading position
... using social reading side of things
... there are systems out there that allow you to share where you are in a given publication
... with book club, class, yourself
... works across multiple devices
... so you don't have to rebook mark
... also more inclusive W3C groups

Markus: any questions or comments on first one?
... only way to reuse on another device is if you purchase from that vendor
... so this book marking is a critical piece
... to exchange that data between different vendors

Rob: second one is highlighting a span of text

<tmichel> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Anno_Specific_2

Rob: user wants to highlight for interest
... no annotation, just here is some bit of text that is important
... this use case does not say how it is to be done
... could change background color, make it bold
... another use case describes an approach
... need a two points in the range to be highlighted
... want to be able to share this piece
... with yourself or group
... also commonly supported on ebook platforms but again
... as Markus said, no agreed upon way to share interoperably

Tzviya: This might seem obvious
... but do we need to spell out that this needs to be saved from use to use?

Rob: that is a good point
... I shall add that
... that is a requirement for all the annotation use cases
... that's a good one

Brady: my question is how are @ dynamics shared?
... imagine and export mechanism to export annotations to other devices
... may be ok one device to another
... but if you are reading same book on two different systems, is there a dynamic problem?

Rob: automatically performed?
... for highlighting maybe you don't want it synched across devices
... reading position you want to close iPad and read on phone
... or another tablet and so you would automatically save that position
... is that what you mean?

Brady: even highlighting, I can see
... I want as user to get data I have stored
... that is export mechanism
... data I own
... and I use single player or iBooks
... and I want to share my reading system and annotations on different platforms

Rob: I would propose adding an indirection use case
... crosses across social and reading indirection
... to distinguish export and synchronization

Markus: that is a very important distinction, thank you Brady
... across systems and vendors is a different animal
... involving APIs and discovery of service providers
... don't need to worry about implementations now, but what users want and need
... queue is empty, please move on

Rob: third new use case is the same as the previous one
... with more than just the highlight
... then there is the comment of what it should do
... HTML or other format; does it require layout or styling assistance
... questions on that one?
... Last one is slightly more interesting
... Annotating the text of publication
... imagine an ebook with images, audio, video
... may even wish to comment on the style sheets if you are a developer
... a mark, a bug, that makes it not render on a particular platform
... requirements are that the embedded sources are targeted with annotations
... including the ability to solicit resources
... may not be @ directly
... I put the non-rendered resources in
... to provoke a response
... not entirely sure that's within scope or useful
... we can certainly look

Markus: that is a discussion to be had
... once we move from new into blessed

<azaroth> Scribe: azaroth

Karen: Not a technical question but understanding the use case for other content from other industries
... Also support the web and tv and know they have an annotation group. Not sure what they're doing but you might want to chat with those folks. Sounds similar

Rob: Please send details will follow up.

<karen> Tzviya: I think being able to annotate Javascript is an excellent idea

Tzviya: Being able to annotate javascript etc is excellent idea, but a new use case

<karen> ...two different use cases

<karen> ...different users

<karen> ...one targets developers one users

<karen> Rob: yes, good point

<karen> ...I can split that up

<karen> Markus: sounds like good idea to me

<karen> ...easier to split up in the upcoming ranking exercise

<karen> ...looking at links

<karen> ...at future use cases

<karen> ...how is annotating parts of embedded resources different?

<karen> Rob: I really like this image...you should change this Javascript

<karen> ...or drawing a rectangular or polygon

<karen> ...on an embedded resource rather than entrie resource

<karen> ...change more code

<karen> ...way to do embedded resource and describe

<karen> Markus: one thing associated here is annotation of dynamic object

<karen> ...I know this is one of the issues

<karen> ...in education for example

<karen> ..so the user is basically in a context of half state

<karen> ...quiz with ten steps

<karen> ...and wants to annotate an object in a particular state

<karen> ...that is a really scary thing of course

<karen> ...but comes up from time to time

<karen> ...may be something simpler

<karen> ...or annotate a state in advance for user

<karen> ...so you get a tip from your teacher

<karen> Rob: open annotation model

<karen> ...we have @ state

<karen> ...state of resource in which I was annotating

<karen> ...at the time I was annotating it

<karen> ...focused on things that are only cross domain

<karen> ...only two different ways of describing it

<karen> ...first was at this time

<karen> ...annotated home page on 22 July of 2004

<karen> ...second one is to cover content negotiations

<karen> ...these are the http headers I sent to the resource which I then annotated

<karen> ...use cases that you bring up I'm sure

<karen> ...we would need additional descriptive mechanisms

<karen> ...to say I rotated the 3D model by 25 degrees and rotated it

<karen> Markus: user agent does not know...asking for API

<karen> ...wondering if it would be worth

<karen> ...unless you already have it

<karen> ...whether we should add that one

<karen> ...it's important to education people

<karen> Rob: yes, I shall do that and add the advanced use cases

<karen> Markus: beautiful

<karen> ...thank you a lot Rob for your work so far

<karen> ...apart from this being a good and important set of use cases

<karen> ...is that this set of our collection can serve as a role model for the upcoming areas to work on

<karen> ...good to have something complete soon

<karen> ...and be reading for blessing

<karen> ...then we can use this as a basis to help others

<karen> Rob: you are welcome

<karen> Markus: Great

<karen> Scribenick: Rob

<azaroth> Markus: Moving on, we've had no edits to existing use cases, so nothing to discuss there.

<azaroth> ... Next agenda is upcoming focus areas and steps. We decided to start with anno, pagination and mathml, but there's nothing to stop us looking for people to drive activity in other areas

<azaroth> ... I'd like to ask if there are any suggestions or offers from anyone to start working on a new area?

<azaroth> Madi: I'm planning to work to pinpoint key folks in Pearson to fill out use cases, one on the structural html5 use case

<azaroth> ... probably another one regarding accessibility

<tzviya> I've been doing more research around structural semantics as well

<azaroth> ... Would like to get started on one, as there are many

<azaroth> Markus: Soudns great. When it comes to structuring, Tziva has added one requirement on sturcutral semantics on the directory page which talks about ... inflecting additional structural semantics on existing html

<azaroth> ... this is a big area which I expect will generate lots of discussion, where this is needed and why, how to do it best

<azaroth> ... definitely welcome

<brady_duga> That was just me dropping in and out - sorry

<azaroth> Tzivya: Also been doing work with accessibility, hope to have additional use cases. Also structural semantics.

<azaroth> Markus: Great. Other low hanging fruit is indexes from glossaries, dictionaries, etc. Reading systems want to use the data in them.

<azaroth> ... At this point unless there's offers to get going? It doesn't make sense to kick off an area without a lead. There's a few of us who will have more time after next week, so hope to have more contributions coming in a coule of weeks in order to not lose speed

<azaroth> ... I think that's basically it for today. any other business items? Comments from anyone?

<azaroth> ... Okay, good. We thank Rob for scribing and meet again next week.

<azaroth> karen: I guess that Markus has to edit the minutes page?

<azaroth> Or does anyone have the rights on it?

<azaroth> Thanks GeorgeWalkley

<mgylling> So looking at the output we now know that one cannot add multiple regrets lines.

<mgylling> tmichel, we would need to edit the generated minutes, the regrets got messed up

<azaroth> My regrets for next week also, I'm on vacation with my sister who's visiting us from New Zealand

<mgylling> azaroth, ok

- DRAFT -

Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

03 Sep 2013

Attendees

Contents

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output