See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 20 August 2013
<scribe> scribenick: clown
zakim GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
ISSUE-595?
<trackbot> ISSUE-595 -- treegrid for UIA has outline roles vs. gridcell roles. IE implemented gridcell - Change it? -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/595
JS: Based on 30 Jul telecon,
Cynthia said switch to ROLE_SYSTEM_CELL for treegrid under UIA
express
... and DataItem under UIA.
<davidb> DB: for the key press issue… mozilla fix was https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=501496
JS: mentioned this change at the
weekly call, and wondered if it's really correct.
... then I discovered ISSUE-598 has been raised.
ISSUE-598?
<trackbot> ISSUE-598 -- Mapping for treegrid role is incorrect for IE -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/598
JS: opened this releated issue on
the 30th of July.
... it says to map treegrid to control type "tree grid" (not
cell).
DB: this needs cynthia.
JS: at the meeting yesterday,
Rich suggested things have changed with IE11, and maybe this
mapping of treegrid to ROLE_SYSTEM_CELL is no longer
applicable.
... just wanted you and mozilla to be aware of this.
... does FF do a UIA implementation?
DB: we are dabbling, but not full bore yet.
ISSUE-596?
<trackbot> ISSUE-596 -- Failure of aria-invalid mappings for AT-SPI in test cases: mapping is via text attributes, not object attributes but is not exposed. -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/596
JS: there is a test case with
<img role="presentation" aria-invalid="true">
... the aria-invalid is there to check that it counteract the
presentation role.
... FF does expose a graphic accessilble in the a11y
tree.
... But, because the invalid is given in text attributes (not
object attributes), there is nothing exposed because this is a
graphic (not text).
... If you look at IA2, it says to expose in text attributes
AND to set IA2_STATE_INVALID_ENTRY
... in the above test case, FF does expose
IA2_STATE_INVALID_ENTRY for the graphic, but no text
attributes.
... there is a STATE_INVALID in AT-SPI.
... My question is: should it be set in this test case?
... here is the test case:
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pfwg/raw-file/default/ARIA/1.0/tests/test-files/presentation-role/504.html
DB: I could look at the
code...
... we purposely bypass the object attribute for aria-invalid.
But you are curious about state invalid?
JS: yes.
DB: we do test for ^
... something that is invalid maps to STATE_INVALID.
... you were wondering if the state mapping was accidental. The
test I cite shows that it is done on purpose.
... I would expect this to happen for any role we checked.
JS: that means I can change the
aria-invalid mappings for AT-SPI to include STATE_INVALID for
aria-invalid='true'.
... it comes down to "copying" what is given for IA2.
DB: yes, exactly.
... let me check one more thing.
... there is an ATK_STATE_INVALID_ENTRY.
JS: There is an ATSPI_STATE_INVALID_ENTRY
https://developer.gnome.org/libatspi/unstable/libatspi-atspi-constants.html
<davidb> we want to check that
DB: we want to check that too.
JS: let me run the test
case.
... my mistake. accerciser reports "invalid entry"
<davidb> yeah looks like we map invalid to invalid entry for atk "{ ATK_STATE_INVALID_ENTRY, kMapDirectly }, // states::INVALID = 1 << 28"
JS: It's almost identical to IA2.
<davidb> DB: yep
resovled: joseph to update UAIG to state that for aria-invalid='true', for AT-SPI, include a 'set STATE_INVALID_ENTRY'.
resolved: joseph to update UAIG to state that for aria-invalid='true', for AT-SPI, include a 'set STATE_INVALID_ENTRY'.
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_state-property_table
ISSUE-607?
<trackbot> ISSUE-607 -- Is there a HasKeyboardFocus state in AT-SPI? -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/607
DB: I think that is an error. That the editor put in a 'HasKeyboardFocus' and meant to replace it with the STATE_FOCUSED from AT-SPI.
resolved: change "HasKeyboardFocus" in AT-SPI column to 'STATE_FOCUSED'
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#focus_state_event_table
issue-604?
<trackbot> issue-604 -- Normative requirement on User agent processing of input keys does not belong in UAIG -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/604
<davidb> I think this changed on our source tree late July (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=501496)
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#keyboard-focus_tabindex
JS: there a list of MUST requirements for tab navigation with tabindex
DB: number 7: When a keydown
event is cancelled, also cancel the keypress event
... I think we do this now on our latest but unreleased version
of FF.
MC: what is the mechanism? when you preventDefault()? or stopPropagation().
DB: Joseph is doing both.
MC: the cancelbubble — is that
necessary?
... preventDefault() for FF and return false for IE.
... but why this requirement?
DB: this doesn't need to be a MUST, but it's nice to have consistency for developers.
MC: why the user agent and not the script?
DB: I think it's a nicety. It's
nice to have the consistency to cancel the keypress when the
keydown is cancelled.
... it relates to dojo menus.
... some actions are done on keydown, others on keyup.
... what if there is no keydown event, but there is a keypress
event.
... there could be a keyup on an element that currently has
focus after a keydown event occurred on another element.
MC: that is a very strange
situation.
... two questions: (a) is there a defensible requirement? (b)
can it be implemented?
... there appears to be a tentative yes to the second
question.
... but is it implemented in a wide spread manner.
... it is implemented in the latest FF, and possibly in IE?
DB: I haven't tested in IE. Yes to FF and Chrome.
<davidb> FF nightly is here http://nightly.mozilla.org/
MC: we do not propose to change the requirement in the UAIG.
DB: I'm trying to google the
history of this, but I'm not seeing anything.
... you might ping Becky, Joseph. It may have come from dojo
land.
http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-wai-aria-implementation-20100916/
Canceling a keydown event must also cancel the keypress event, for purposes of compatibility with other browsers. This is necessary because authors supporting Internet Explorer must use keydown events to process keystrokes, where keydown but not keypress events are fired for non-alphanumeric keys. As web page authors implement script control over the keyboard they need to be able to use keydown but cancel the effect of consumed keystrokes such as arrow keys.
http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-wai-aria-implementation-20090224/
<davidb> that is the reason! ^
JS: do you fully understand
it?
... I sort of get it...
<davidb> if you get it, don't give it to me :)
MC: sort of makes sense, but is
it still true?
... I found some test pages that let you press various keys,
and it shows what each of the various events return.
... sometimes keycodes are returned. sometimes keychar.
... but I'm not sure this is still true today.
... there is a new DOM 3 UI events recent working draft.
<MichaelC> UI Events
JS: Part of the problem is that key events were not standardized in DOM2. Stuck at DOM 1
DB: I am away next week, but I'm probably available on email.
MC: I've got your email with your test file, and work with it. I may send you some questions.
JS: Okay.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/treegird/treegrid/ Found ScribeNick: clown Inferring Scribes: clown Default Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer, David_Bolter, Michael_Cooper Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer David_Bolter Michael_Cooper Regrets: Cynthia_Shelley Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Aug/0008.html Found Date: 20 Aug 2013 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/08/20-aapi-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]