<trackbot> Date: 16 August 2013
*me nope, calling in now
<scribe> Scribe: Sharron
<shawn-off> It would be good to talk through the HTML & CSS for these. I copied it from your page to the wiki: <http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks#Recommendations_for_Illustrations:>
<shawn-off> See what that did for the image under Zoom at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/eval/checks#zoom>. Would need to do something different because the caption is wider than the images. Suggestions?
AnnaBelle: I can address Shawn's
concerns but not sure we can do it right now on the phone.
These are good points and I will consider them as I take the
... Want to have illustrations that fit seamlessly into the text and that don't attract your eye too soom or too much and that illuminate the points.
... let's look at recommendations
AnnaBelle: Andrew and I wrote
these and developed the prototypes with those in mind
... so far discussion seems to be about the ones that have two illustrations in a box. I would prefer to talk about single illustrations, like the page Title on
... why do we not use HTML5
Sharron: It may be because it is still not stable.
Wayne: and the intricate system of classes.
Vicki: I think the instability may be the main factor
AnnaBelle: I look to the actual existing code on the WAI site as a role model.
Vicki: And issues of
compatibility with older screen readers.
... Steve Faulkner has a nice table that talks about compatibility with HTML5
Wayne: And we are shaky ground if we make accessibility decisions based on screen readers or any particular device.
Paul: Since HTML4 will be
supported by all browsers indefinatly, it seems that we should
make a decesion to move to HTML5 at some point and move
... as soon as possible.
AnnaBelle: It is not a criticism
not to use HTML5 but just wondering.
... in the meantime, any questions or comments about phase I recommendations.
Wayne: I really like #4
Paul: What is the reason for the left alignment?
AnnaBelle: I prefer centered captions, so this is a preference by Shawn and Andrew. Does anyone else know?
Wayne: Letters pack better when they are left aligned. It allows you to fit more into the line and easier for the eyr to follow a straight left margin.
AnnaBelle: Should I do two versions? One with centered captions, and one with left-aligned?
Sharron: Do others have a preference for that centered caption?
<paulschantz> I'd like to see left
Howard: Yes, I like centered captions
Sharron: Sounds like the group
would like to see both versions.
... AnnaBelle will put that acrtion in her wiki list.
Sharron: Caption size seems quite small to me
AnnaBelle: In the browsers I have
tested, it will shrink propotionately. Shawn made a case that
it must be at least 700 pixels wise.
... What do others think about size of captions?
Paul: They do seem a bit
... But that is the convention - captions tend to be smaller than surrounding text.
Annabelle: Do you want me to make it just one degree samller rather than two.
Sharron: But maybe it is irrelevant.
Annabelle: Is 700 pixels wide a sufficient width?
Paul: Is that the default width, or the maximum width?
Paul: I tested text only zoom and
the captions zoom nicely.
... what is the reason for the lack of arrows?
AnnaBelle: That was Shawn's strong preference.
Paul: I presume that was becasue it would make the alt text much more complicated.
Wayne: The recent WebAIM study showed that visual complexity was the most disturbing aspect of providing graphic content.
Paul: It is better to chunk it up than to have arrows showing multiple aspects of a concept.
Wayne: You don't like greying out irrelevant sections?
<paulschantz> I checked 200 percent text zoom of captions using the "NoSquint" add-on for FireFox
AnnaBelle: I would prefer the use of arrows for some
Sharron: I think there may be
cases in which arrows would be the correct way to illustrate
one particular point.
... and a caption may address the visual complexity.
Wayne: And an arrow can take a complex issue and show you exactly waht to focus on , helps understanding
<paulschantz> Greying out makes sense when you have a large illustration that contains a lot of irrelevant info you need to block out for clarity. We're using mostly small illustrations here.
AnnaBelle: Should we postpone the further discussion until Andrew and Shawn can join?
Wayne: Yes but we should record the opinion of this group that we should not limit this illustration technique just becasue some person with a disability may not use it the same way. Arrows are part of the standard visual metaphore.
<paulschantz> Def keep figure
<Howard_> figure looks fine
Annabelle: What do people think about using Figure: (no numbers) at the start of every caption?
AnnaBelle: OK good, let's move on to the double illustration in one box...comments?
<paulschantz> I like it
<Howard_> I think it's fine
AnnaBelle: Shawn mentioned that if you shrink the width of the browser, the images stack and the caption moves off to the left of the images.
Wayne: Well just fix it.
AnnaBelle: That is a challenge, I hear it.
Howard: if it was centered, it would align with the images, it is the left alignment that causes that to occur.
<Howard_> no, that was Wayne
<Howard_> sorry, that was me
Wayne: if we could show code that allowed everything to shrink and align nicely, that would be great.
<Howard_> it was used for zoom example
AnnaBelle: We had a conversation after the Indie UI illustration and I was fascinated about the fact that she thought it was OK to float left. So we may want to collect more examples before we make general rules.
Wayne: Sequential things, step 1, step 2, etc may use this kind of illustratin.
<Howard_> or when you want to show a couple of examples
Sharron: Do we have all the images now placed for the EasyChecks?
AnnaBelle: We may still have more illustrations in the queue, should check with Shawn.
Wayne: You can justify within the
page and you can position within the block. There are threee
blocks in the two part illustration - the two images and the
... all three blocks can be centered, but within the text block the text should be left-justified.
Sharron: I'll add that as a to-do
to Wayne's wiki list
... anything else for the group?
AnnaBelle: As a general rule, I try not to do in-line styling. But I orginally did inline styling becasue it made it easier to handle. Are people OK with having the inline styling to define the width?
Vicki: It should be in the CSS
Howard: Me too
<paulschantz> +1 for Sharron!
AnnaBelle: I am not aware of a way to do the width for various image sizes.
Howard: I am OK if there is no easy technical way to do this without a numbe rof exceptions.
Wayen: it is very difficult ot
override with user style sheets, they become tortured.
... in fact it is such a problem that I have to write restrictive code to wipe out author styles
trackbot, end meeting
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