W3C

- DRAFT -

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

15 Aug 2013

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
kford, Greg_Lowney, Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Kim_Patch
Regrets
Jan
Chair
jimallan, kellyford
Scribe
Greg

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 15 August 2013

Proposal for 1.8.6

<allanj> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0030.html

Jan did proposal, Greg suggested changes, and Jan agreed.

<allanj> Proposed

<allanj> 1.8.6: Zoom: The user can rescale content within top level graphical viewports as follows: (Level A)

<allanj> Zoom in: to 500% or more of the default size; and

<allanj> Zoom out: to 10% or less of the default size, so the content fits within the height or width of the viewport. (Level AA)

<allanj> ignore above

<allanj> here is correct

<allanj> 1.8.6: Zoom: The user can rescale content within top level graphical viewports as follows: (Level A)

<allanj> a) Zoom in: to 500% or more of the default size; and

<allanj> b) Zoom out: to 10% or less of the default size, or enough to let the content fit within the height or width of its viewport, whichever size is smaller.

<allanj> +1

No objections.

<allanj> ACTION: jeanne to add "1.8.6: Zoom: The user can rescale content within top level graphical viewports as follows: (Level A) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-864 - Add "1.8.6: zoom: the user can rescale content within top level graphical viewports as follows: (level a) [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-08-22].

<allanj> a) Zoom in: to 500% or more of the default size; and

<allanj> b) Zoom out: to 10% or less of the default size, or enough to let the content fit within the height or width of its viewport, whichever size is smaller.

<allanj> to the document

UAAG2: Clarifying obscuration - Jan

<allanj> kim, this is the tread. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0032.html related to captions obscuring underlying video

Greg: Perhaps we should just use simpler and more limited wording just requiring the option for transparent background behind caption text. Not sure what else Jan would like to cover with "not fully obscure".

Jeanne: Perhaps should drop this requirement, as it's complicated and doesn't have that much benefit for accessibility.

Jim: This is only AAA.

Jeanne: Not sure the original comment justifies this much work.

Jim: Jan's original comments were: JR5 This is a lot of configurability. JR6: Right-and-left is a challenge with horizontally flowing languages like English.

<allanj> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0025.html

<allanj> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0031.html

<allanj> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0032.html

Greg: The transparency vs. "fully obscure" discussion is about 1.1.4.d.

Jan's original comment on 1.1.4 was "JR3 (a) seems like a lot at AA, especially since captions typically overlay the lower portion of the video. Others make sense."

Kim: say "functionally obscure" instead of "fully obscure"?

Jeanne: How could you test "functionally obscure"?

Jim: QuickTime etc. put captions in a separate window; if video players could do that it would be fine. Proposal in HTML5 is that they support this.

Greg: But Jan's concern on the earlier call was that having captions in a separate area may not be feasible on small devices, and that reducing the size of the primary media to allow captions to be in a separate area of a small screen would effectively obscure the primary media, even though it's not covered, it's too small.

Jim: say not more than 15% coverage?

Jeanne: What about people with low vision who want very large captions?
... How about removing the contentious part of this SC?

Jim: Want to postpone this in order to get to the survey.

Jeanne proposes drop D, the point about obscuring the primary media.

Kim: Put as suggestion in the Implementing document.

<allanj> ACTION: jim to review obscure 1.1.4 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-865 - Review obscure 1.1.4 [on Jim Allan - due 2013-08-22].

Survey from 4 July start on question 5 - JR17

<allanj> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130702/results#xq10

2.2.4 comment JR17

Jeanne: Doesn't feel it meets qualifications for Level A, doesn't block access, just makes it more difficult.

Kim: fatigue and confusion.

Jim: All but Greg agree on AA.

<allanj> 4 wordings that are functionally the same

Greg: We have four wordings, all functionally the same, so the editorial subgroup could work on that.
... I also suggested requiring active notification, such as a message box, not just a passive message down on the status bar.

Jeanne: push back from manufacturers not wanting requirements on UI such as dialog boxes.

Greg: Not requiring message boxes all the time, just the option.

Jeanne: Benefit not worth the fight, considering the push back we'd get.

Greg: Defer to Jeanne, although unhappily.

Jim: could this be done with extensions?

Greg: In my email I cited a thread where it was revealed it could not be done in Firefox today.

Jeanne: Good enough to suggest active notification in Intent and Examples?

Greg: Better than nothing.
... I can't tell you how angry it makes me--not the UAAG decision but the browser manufacturers who make search and navigation so difficult for me and many others.

<KimPatch> ACTION: wording of 2.2.4 change to The user can request notification when sequential navigation wraps at the beginning or end of a document, and can prevent such wrapping. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-ua-minutes.html#action03]

Greg: ...and refuse to fix it even after years of complaints.

<trackbot> Error finding 'wording'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/users>.

<KimPatch> suggest active notification in Intent and examples

<allanj> ACTION: jeanne to change wording of 2.2.4 change to The user can request notification when sequential navigation wraps at the beginning or end of a document, and can prevent such wrapping [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-866 - Change wording of 2.2.4 change to the user can request notification when sequential navigation wraps at the beginning or end of a document, and can prevent such wrapping [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-08-22].

2.3.3 JR20

<allanj> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130702/results#xq11

Existing

2.3.3 Direct activation of Enabled Elements: The user can move directly to and activate any enabled element in rendered content. (Level A)

Proposed

Level AA

Kim: Not having it is the equivalent of your car only going 30 miles per hour instead of 60. If it's that difficult, you won't use it as often.
... Mouseless Browsing handles large numbers of links by only numbering those visible on the screen.

<allanj> this is the Mouseless Browsing SC

Greg: I realize my concern is unwarranted as the wording doesn't require a single key for each element, so typing long numbers followed by a hotkey would work.

Kelly: We could keep it A but expect push back from manufacturers.

Jim: Extensions provide this, so shouldn't be an issue.

Kelly: But for cases where extensions don't exist...
... To the extent manufacturers value compliance, having more Level A is good, but when they don't having more Level A discourages adoption.

Resolution: keep 2.2.3 at Level A.

Jeanne: "the working group feels this is essential for users relying on speech input, and there are numerous examples available."

2.7.4 JR29

<allanj> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130702/results#xq12

Comment

JR29: AAA perhaps?

Existing

2.7.4 Change preference settings outside the user interface: The user can adjust any preference settings required to meet the User Agent Accessibility Guidelines (UAAG) 2.0 from outside the user agent user interface. (Level AA)

Resolution: 2.7.4 change to AAA

2.11.4 JR36

Comment

JR36: Could this be AA?

Existing

2.11.4 Playback Rate Adjustment for Prerecorded Content: The user can adjust the playback rate of prerecorded time-based media content, such that all of the following are true: (Level A)

<allanj> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130702/results#xq13

a. The user can adjust the playback rate of the time-based media tracks to between 50% and 250% of real time.

b. Speech whose playback rate has been adjusted by the user.

maintains pitch in order to limit degradation of the speech quality. c. Audio and video tracks remain synchronized across this required range of playback rates.

d. The user agent provides a function that resets the playback rate to normal (100%).

Kim: Disagrees but not strongly enough to veto it alone.

Resolution: 2.114. change to AA.

3.1.1 JR40

<allanj> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130702/results#xq14

Comment

JR40: Maybe remove "and rendered content". Only mechanism for this in content would seem to be politeness level and implementing that is should following the content spec.

Existing

3.1.1 Reduce Interruptions: The user can avoid or defer recognized non-essential or low priority messages and updating/changing information in the user agent user interface and rendered content.(Level AA)

Proposed

3.1.1 Reduce Interruptions: The user can avoid or defer recognized non-essential or low priority messages and updating/changing information in the user agent user interface.(Level AA)

Agree with the proposal 5

Disagree with the proposal 0

Neutral, will accept consensus of the group 1

Suggest the following changes to the proposal 1

<allanj> jan proposal +1

Jim: Prefer Jan's wording to Eric's.

Jeanne: Feels Jan's is more testable because it talks about non-essential and low priority and updating information, the last two map to ARIA and therefore are more testable.

If we remove the "in rendered content" then we don't need "recognized".

<allanj> 3.1.1 Reduce Interruptions: The user can avoid or defer non-essential or low priority messages and updating/changing information in the user agent user interface.(Level AA)

The sentence is structured "The user can A and B in C"; is there ambiguity whether C applies to both A and B, or only to B?

<scribe> ACTION: Jeanne to review 3.1.1 Reduce Interruptions to determine whether there's need to reduce ambiguity as to whether "in UA UI" applies to both "non-essential..." and "updating/changing..." [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-ua-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-867 - Review 3.1.1 reduce interruptions to determine whether there's need to reduce ambiguity as to whether "in ua ui" applies to both "non-essential..." and "updating/changing..." [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-08-22].

Resolution: change wording of 3.1.1 and see action 867 for final wording

Kim: Are non-essential and low-priority messages different? If so, could simplify sentence.

4.1.2 JR44

<allanj> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130702/results#xq15

Comment

JR44: Isn't this (4.1.2) implementation detail for 4.1.1?

Existing

4.1.1 Platform Accessibility Services: The user agent supports relevant platform accessibility services. (Level A)

4.1.2 Name, Role, State, Value, Description: For all user interface components including user interface , rendered content , generated content, and alternative content, the user agent makes available the name, role, state, value, and description via platform accessibility services. (Level A)

Proposed

Remove 4.1.2, merging the IER with 4.1.1

<allanj> ok with rejecting proposal and leaving them as they are

Greg: I think I prefer existing wording, because if the platform API supports these four attributes but does not require them, 4.1.1 gives the general "support the API including all it requires" (which lacking in Jim's rewrite), plus 4.1.2 sets a minimum required even if the API leaves them optional.

I don't mind combining them in theory but prefer existing wording over any attempt to combine them I've yet seen.

Resolution: Not accept proposal for combining 4.1.1 and 4.2.2 , as leaving them separate success criteria provides more protection for assistive technology

<allanj> next item will be JR47 5.1.1 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130702/results#xq16

<allanj> regrets next week for Greg

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to add "1.8.6: Zoom: The user can rescale content within top level graphical viewports as follows: (Level A) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to change wording of 2.2.4 change to The user can request notification when sequential navigation wraps at the beginning or end of a document, and can prevent such wrapping [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to review 3.1.1 Reduce Interruptions to determine whether there's need to reduce ambiguity as to whether "in UA UI" applies to both "non-essential..." and "updating/changing..." [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-ua-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: jim to review obscure 1.1.4 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-ua-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: wording of 2.2.4 change to The user can request notification when sequential navigation wraps at the beginning or end of a document, and can prevent such wrapping. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-ua-minutes.html#action03]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.138 (CVS log)
$Date: 2013-08-15 18:35:41 $

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Succeeded: s/mousekeys/Mouseless Browsing/
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No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: Greg
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Default Present: kford, Greg_Lowney, Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Kim_Patch
Present: kford Greg_Lowney Jim_Allan Jeanne Kim_Patch
Regrets: Jan
Found Date: 15 Aug 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/08/15-ua-minutes.html
People with action items: 2.2.4 change jeanne jim of wording

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