See also: IRC log
Next week meeting is postponed
action-88?
<trackbot> ACTION-88 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to make sure the TTML media type is properly registered for Issue-175. -- due 2013-07-31 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/88
--> https://tools.iana.org/public-view/viewticket/695904 tracker for medfia type
action-177?
<trackbot> ACTION-177 -- Glenn Adams to update local copy of xml.xsd to use newer copy based on above link. -- due 2013-07-25 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/177
Glenn: I have the info but didn't get to it yet
ation-178?
action-178?
<trackbot> ACTION-178 -- Sean Hayes to open new issue(s) describing problems with concrete encoding. -- due 2013-07-25 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/178
action-178: that's issue 264
<trackbot> Notes added to ACTION-178 Open new issue(s) describing problems with concrete encoding..
close action-178
<trackbot> Closed ACTION-178 Open new issue(s) describing problems with concrete encoding..
action-179?
<trackbot> ACTION-179 -- Sean Hayes to follow up with plh on ACTION-88 -- due 2013-07-25 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/179
close action-179
<trackbot> Closed ACTION-179 Follow up with plh on ACTION-88.
action-180?
<trackbot> ACTION-180 -- Glenn Adams to ensure that 10REC errata page is cleared after 10SE is published as REC. -- due 2013-07-25 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/180
Sean: waiting on that one
action-182?
<trackbot> ACTION-182 -- Thierry Michel to create ttml2 and ttml1 short names, to change tracker product labels as needed -- due 2013-07-25 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/182
Thierry: didn't reserve it yet
Sean: main issue is to separate the two versions
action-183?
<trackbot> ACTION-183 -- Sean Hayes to work with plh on TPAC schedule. -- due 2013-07-25 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/183
Sean: we're clashing with Web and TV IG
plh: can we move to Thursday/Friday?
Sean: clash with HTML WG
pal: do we need more than one day?
plh: Sean: could we do Monday and Friday?
Sean: could we do Monday and
Friday?
... if we get everything done on Monday, we won't need the
Friday
<tmichel> I may have a digital publishing meeting on friday
Sean: won't clash with WebTV IG and HTML WG business
<tmichel> OK
<scribe> ACTION: Thierry to check with Angel if Monday/Friday is ok [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-tt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-184 - Check with Angel if Monday/Friday is ok [on Thierry Michel - due 2013-08-01].
close action-183
<trackbot> Closed ACTION-183 Work with plh on TPAC schedule..
issue-259?
<trackbot> ISSUE-259 -- Define "closest" -- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259
The term "closest" is used a number of times. Does closest mean 12.5 = 12 or 12.5 = 13? Suggest defining closest more precisely.
pal: hopefully, that's purely editorial. going over the document and making sure we're clear on what closest means
<scribe> ACTION: Glenn to go through the spec for issue 259 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-tt-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-185 - Go through the spec for issue 259 [on Glenn Adams - due 2013-08-01].
issue-260?
<trackbot> ISSUE-260 -- When agent is not @type 'character', then should prohibit actor child. -- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/260
Glenn: if the type isn't
character we shouldn't have an actor child
... found the issue when implementing the validator tool
... agent can be person, organization, other
Nigel: in a dramatic
reconstruction, you may have an actor playing a real
person
... so I would allow actor for person and character
Glenn: sounds like there is a use
case for this then
... if we're going to allow for person and other, do we want a
restriction at all?
... maybe we can tweak the prose...
<scribe> ACTION: Glenn to work with Nigel to come up with a resolution for issue 260 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-tt-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-186 - Work with Nigel to come up with a resolution for issue 260 [on Glenn Adams - due 2013-08-01].
issue-261?
<trackbot> ISSUE-261 -- signaling docoument profile conformance is separate from decoder presentation requirements -- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/261
Sean: let's skip this for the moment
Nigel: from the EBU meeting, we
did consider profiling
... we'd like to provide some input in our experience about
creating EBU-TT
Sean: I'd like to dedicate a
special meeting on profiles, maybe in 2 weeks
... misunderstandings about use cases
... would that work for EBU?
Nigel: I doubt we'll be ready by then
Sean: we can wait then
... it's not urgent but need to be addressed at some point
Nigel: if you want something
formal, that would take more time
... I'll check with the EBU group
... for documentation of the profile issues
... we'll make sure that folks can attend
Pal: sounds like a great idea but
later date better
... there is long discussion between Mike Dolan and Glenn on
the reflector
... did you look at it?
[...]
Pal: would be good to take into account the discussion there in the EBU
Paul: issue 263 is also
related
... it deals with how to specify mechanically a profile that
applies constraints on features
Sean: we need to understand what
we built, if it fits the use cases, and move from there
... there are other issues around profile that weren't close
properly either
Pal: look at the original intent
from Glenn on profile
... fundamental background to understand how it's designed
today
Sean: ok, let me know when folks are ready for this discussion
Glenn: the list of features in
1.0 was something that I produced during the CR phase of
1.0
... in order to refer technical feature that we wish to create
tests for
... it wasn't something the group did
... based on my best reading
... but we didn't go through it in details
... now we have actual practice feedback
Sean: they were useful, but we
have more experience now indeed
... we may divide some of the features, inheritance, etc.
... so it's open for ttml 2
issue-262?
<trackbot> ISSUE-262 -- tts:extent semantics if value not supported -- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/262
Sean: Glenn, any more thought?
Glenn: initial thinking was to
mandate support for auto
... so if you support extent at all, you need to interpret auto
as well
Nigel: this kind of issue should
be part of the discussion on profile
... the media support or not needs to be considered there
Glenn: agreed
... we have to draw some line somewhere because we can't
specify everything but we need better guidelines on how to
interpret those sentences
Sean: so, part of profile discussion?
Glenn: related to supported or
not.
... if the agent doesn't support a value, what does it do?
Sean: can we resolve this one by removing "supported" in the phrase?
Glenn: not sure yet
... can we do it after we're done with profiles?
Sean: sure
issue-264?
<trackbot> ISSUE-264 -- What XML entities are valid in TTML canonical syntax -- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/264
Sean: [summarize the issue]
... I've seen content through as copy/paste from html
... but ttml processors don't deal with those
... so we need to clarify what is or isn't supported
Glenn: appendix N refers to XML
1.0 (or 1.1)
... it defines what you get
... isn't one of those
... we could add a note for readers that don't understand these
things
<pal> +1
Glenn: we could define more, but don't like it
Sean: I'm fine with a note
... will help pointing content people to
... as it stands it's a bit open
<njm> +1
<scribe> ACTION: Glenn to add a note to appendix N on valid XML entities [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-tt-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-187 - Add a note to appendix N on valid XML entities [on Glenn Adams - due 2013-08-01].
Glenn: applies to TTML 1.0 and TTML 2
issue-150?
<trackbot> ISSUE-150 -- TTML XSD vallidation and extension problem -- closed
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/150
Sean: is there anything to discuss there?
Nigel: this is something that has
come up as a real world issue
... woulde help to have a more granular version in XSD of
what's permitted
Sean: new issue or open the old one?
Glenn: let's open a new. also
related to skip, lax, and strict processing in XSD
... XSD 1.1 helps a bit
... we added ##other to resolve issue-150
... it allows foreign @ to fall through the schema
... also related issue on the purpose of the schema isn't
aligned with our definition of validity in the document
... our schema is to be used with concrete document instead of
abstract valide infoset
<scribe> ACTION: Glenn to create an issue to address the use of other namespace vocabulary in the schema [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-tt-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-188 - Create an issue to address the use of other namespace vocabulary in the schema [on Glenn Adams - due 2013-08-01].
close action-61
<trackbot> Closed ACTION-61 Request shortname ttml11 prior to FPWD on TTML1.1.
Nigel: issue-179 was discussed in
the EBU meeting as well
... at the moment, there is one coordinate system in TTML
... the graphic plane may have a different resolution than the
captions
... that's difference is causing some issues about what to
do
... same issue in the temporal domain as well
Sean: for the HTML5 to CSS
mapping, the graphic plane resolution is independent. there is
a logical pixel effectively
... I scale down to the video rectangle after that
... that gets over the whole issue
<glenn> back
Sean: but because TTML has some
abstract words around pixel. we could define a default pixel
grid
... with possibility of overwriting that
<glenn> suggest we use the SVG user coordinate space model
Sean: and then transform it to the graphic plane
Nigel: scaling horizontal/vertical differences
Sean: different methods to
scale
... that transformation process is outside the spec. it's for
the spec that defines the video media grid
... but ttml would keep the logical pixel grid
Nigel: I think I agree re logical coordinate system
Sean: so action-94 is to write that down
close action-129
<trackbot> Closed ACTION-129 Draft response to bring back to the group to respond to IANA on MIME type submission..
action-141?
<trackbot> ACTION-141 -- Sean Hayes to call for Action to identify discrepancies in TTML 1.0 on different profiles. -- due 2013-02-14 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/141
action-143?
<trackbot> ACTION-143 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to provide location to Glenn for unwrapped schemas. -- due 2013-02-14 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/143
plh: we still want to have an unwrapped schema?
sean: it could create a server issue
close action-143
<trackbot> Closed ACTION-143 Provide location to Glenn for unwrapped schemas..
action-164?
<trackbot> ACTION-164 -- Sean Hayes to investigate interop issues using CSS familyName constructs -- due 2013-06-06 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/164
issue-33?
<trackbot> ISSUE-33 -- ts:fontFamily and quotedString -- closed
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/33
issue-223?
<trackbot> ISSUE-223 -- Need to make <familyName> consistent with CSS syntax rules. -- closed
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/223
Glenn: this was about the \u
handling
... you'd need to transform into numeric character reference
instead
Sean: we don't define what happen with the family string...
Glenn: it's in a string, it's treated differently
Sean: I can't imagine someone using non-generic font types
Glenn: we define it...
action-164: this is about the embedded unicode mapping
<trackbot> Notes added to ACTION-164 Investigate interop issues using CSS familyName constructs.
Pal: there is an app out there
that uses non-generic font family
... so let's not break backward compatibility...
... it reference the SMPTE @@ profile
... there is a mapping defined for the font family name to an
external font file
... I'll be happy to share more details
<scribe> ACTION: Pierre to report on the use of font family names to reference external font file resources [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-tt-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-189 - Report on the use of font family names to reference external font file resources [on Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2013-08-01].
action-165?
<trackbot> ACTION-165 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to investigate use cases for ISSUE-232 -- due 2013-06-13 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/165
Pal: there is a spec that allows out there. I'll follow up
Glenn: wonder if you meant bidi in a vertical context
action-166?
<trackbot> ACTION-166 -- Mike Dolan to open issue for 1.1 regarding encodings -- due 2013-06-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/166
close action-173
<trackbot> Closed ACTION-173 Fold issue-258 into change proposal 15 and close 258.
close action-176
<trackbot> Closed ACTION-176 Work with W3T to lengthen scheduled meeting to 2h.
Nigel: reporting from EBU: we're
going to create a liaison communication back to the group
... topics
... presentation style multi-row line
... might be covered by shrink-to-fit
... line row padding
... metadata
... carriage of binary data
... profiling
... ability to express date
... ie add date to the time expression
... crossing midnight present some issues
Sean: we have the ability to do clock expression, but specific dates present challenges due to leap seconds
Glenn: it's related to the
current local time midnight
... if you want to related to a different date, you have to do
something
... you could have + offset but only allow 23 hours
Sean: I think the idea is to have
some metadata to specify the start
... then we could use utc offset time
Nigel: one outcome, but something
else as well. you could end up with a 0 crossing issue
... no way to indicate that 0 crossing happened
... it can happen if you got a reference time scale that goes
up but the system might need to reboot...
Sean: ok, we'll need more details then
Nigel: understood
... one more from EBU: to confirm the meaning of a doc with no
time expression in it
... we think it's externally defined
... which is fine
Glenn: the root container
temporal extent is define by the presentation processing
context
... and body is defined as a parallel construct by
default
... so any text in the document would leave for as long as the
external extent exists
... you could follow throught the spec
... but maybe not be all in one paragraph
Pal: Member submission from
Movielabs
... https://www.w3.org/Submission/2013/02/
... happy to answer questions
... make sense in the context of the revision of the TTWG
charter
Sean: also input from WebTV IG on the charter
Pal: goal is not to make life
even more complicated by reducing the number of profiles
... hope it will be taken up by the group
Sean: in two weeks
[adjourned]