See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 28 March 2013
<kford> I'll be a bit slow on irc, using the web client.
<scribe> scribe: allanj
open item 2
Proposal to remove 2.12.13
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0091.html
js: reviewing 2.12. 2.12.1 pointing device for input of text, level A.
2.12.2 pointing for navigation, level AA, which include Level A from 2.12.1
2.12.3 is combining 1 & 2 , seems redundant
jr: confusing, seems to be a
platform support issue
... if platform supports any input method...keyboard, pointing
device, perhaps gesture
<Greg> Here's the complete text of all three:
<Greg> 2.12.1 Support Platform Text Input Devices: If the platform supports text input using an input device, the user agent is compatible with this functionality. (Level A)
<Greg> 2.12.2 Operation With Any Device: If an input device is supported by the platform , all user agent functionality other than text input can be operated using that device. (Level AA)
<Greg> 2.12.3 Text Input With Any Device: If an input device is supported by the platform , all user agent functionality including text input can be operated using that device. (Level AAA)
kp: gesture is subset of
touch
... voice is several ways, keyboard shortcuts
kf: can you issue a touch with voice, drag in from right edge
kp: yes, but say it a different
way.
... can change wording to make it functional
jr: there is some platform service that converts voice to some screen action
kf: there are 3 device input handlers - keyboard, pointer, touch
jr: but not 4
... perhaps collapse 2.12 to use platform input handlers.
kf: don't want UA to write this, want to use platform services
kp: does 1 & 2 negate need for 3
ja: yes
jr: is there a way to simplify.
2.12 is hard to read & understand
... says even text input can be done with a mouse
gl: if platform doesn't have
onscreen keyboard, then the UA can add one per 2.12.3
... if device has no keyboard, then 2.12.1 is NA, but if
provides onscreen keyboard, then can say YES to 2.12.3
... they are similar enough to be confusing.
EDITORS will smith this.
gl: summary would be a good place
to cover explanation, and it needs rewritten. current summary
not adequate.
... put on survey?
close item 2
open item 1
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130225/results
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130321/
Proposal: Proposed
Platform: Include the name,
manufacturer, and version information of operating system,
operating environment, and/or application on which the user
agent is being hosted. (Example platforms could include
Microsoft Windows an operating system, Gnome and the Java
Runtime Environment as operating environments, Eclipse as a
hosting IDE, Mozilla Firefox for OS X as a hosting web browser,
and...
... Samsung's version of Google Android for the Galaxy S III as
a combination of customized operating system and hardware. All
would include specific version numbers or ranges.) Include any
required configuration changes to the platform (e.g.a web-based
browser will conform when run on Firefox with the Mouseless
Browsing extension) and any relevant hardware limitations (e.g.
minimum screen...
... size, audio output).
reword from Jan:
Platform: Provide relevant information regarding the software and/or hardware platform(s) on which the user agent depends for conformance. This information may include:
- hardware limitations (e.g., audio output enabled, minimum screen size: 2")
- operating system(s) (e.g., Windows 8, Android 4.0+, iOS 5.0+, GNOME 2)
- other software environment (Java SE 7+, Eclipse 3.7+)
- "host" web browser - relevant when the conforming user agent is web-based (e.g., Firefox 14+, Safari 7.0+)
proposal from Eric:
Required Components of UAAG 2.0 Conformance Claims (normative)
Each component is required unless explicitly cited as “optional.”
1. Claimant name and affiliation.
2. Claimant contact information
3. Date of the claim.
4. Conformance level satisfied (level A, AA, or AAA)..
5. User agent information: Provide the name of the user agent and sufficient additional information to specify the version (e.g. vendor name, version number or version range, required patches or updates, human language of the user interface or documentation).
Note 1: If the user agent is a collection of software components (e.g. a browser and extensions or plugins), then the name and version information must be provided separately for each component, although the conformance claim will treat them as a whole.
6. Platform: Describe the *platform*
(software and hardware) on which the user agent depends for conformance. Include the name, manufacturer, and version of key software components (e.g., operating system, operating environment) as well as hostedkey hardware components or limitations (e.g., minimum screen size: 2-inch diagonal[Do we need to state an aspect ratio?], audio output device, [What about input devices?]). Also...
scribe: describe any required configuration changes to the platform.[It is possible that some local configuration requirements may be best documented in the declarations]
7. Range of web content technologies rendered [By the way, do they actually have to be “web” content technologies. Do we need to specify web?]
a. Web content technologies rendered. Identify all web content technologies the rendering of which is relied upon to meet the claimed conformance level.
By including a web content technology, the claimant is claiming that the user agent meets the requirements of UAAG 2.0 (at the claimed level) during the rendering of web content using that web content technology.
Note: Web content technologies may be a combination of constituent web content technologies. For example, an image technology (e.g. PNG) might be listed together with a markup technology (e.g. HTML) since web content in the markup technology is used make web content in the image technology.
1. b. Content technologies not relied upon (optional). Identify one or more web content technologies that are not relied upon to meet the claimed conformance level. The user agent is not required to meet the requirements of UAAG 2.0 in the rendering web content technologies on this list.
8. Declarations: Provide, for each success criterion, : a declaration of either (a) whether or not the success criterion has been satisfied;, or (b) a declaration that the success criterion is not applicable and a rationale for why not.
Glossary entry:
platform
1. In the context of this document [or the conformance section of this document], this refers to the software and hardware on which the user agent operates. [Or “in which the user agent is hosted”]. Examples of key software components of a software platform ordinarily might include
a. operating system(s) (e.g., Windows, Android, iOS) [??GNOME]
b. other operating environment (Java SE, Eclipse)
c. host web browser (relevant when the conforming user agent is web-based (e.g., Firefox, Safari)
[Should a platform be able to include software AT?)]
[Other possible materials to include: Microsoft Windows an operating system, Gnome and the Java Runtime Environment as operating environments, Eclipse as a hosting IDE, Mozilla Firefox for OS X as a hosting web browser, and Samsung's version of Google Android for the Galaxy S III as a combination of customized operating system and hardware. All would include specific version numbers or ranges.”]
Examples of platform hardware might be:
a. operating-system-computers (e.g., Windows 8 compatible laptops, etc).
b. [Should a platform be able to include hardware AT?)]
2. More generally [Any other meaning of platform ]
[Comments on current 22 March 2013 version of glossary entry for “platform”:
platform
software and hardware environment(s) within which the user agent operates. Platforms provide a consistent operational environment. There may be layers of software in a hardware architecture and that each layer may be considered a platform. *Non-web-based* platforms include desktop operating systems (e.g. Linux, MacOS, Windows, etc.), mobile operating systems (e.g. Android, Blackberry, iOS,...
scribe: Windows Phone, etc.), and cross-OS environments (e.g. Java). *Web-based* platforms are other user agents . User agents may employ server-based processing, such as web content transformations, text-to-speech production, etc.
Note 1: A user agent may include functionality hosted on multiple platforms (e.g. a browser running on the desktop may include server-based pre-processing and web-based documentation).
Note 2: Accessibility guidelines for developers exist for many platforms
eh: tried to move some of the
detail out of conformance claim and into def of Platform
... what are the platform(s) that you are making the claim
about...then ask what you tested on
<Jan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0087.html
eric proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0094.html
If the user agent is a collection of software components that have different version numbers (e.g. a browser and extensions or plugins), then the name and version information must be provided separately for each component, although the conformance claim will treat them as a whole.
gl: mouseless browsing is a modification to the UA not the platform
<Greg> The Mouseless Browsing add-in would be listed in 5 for platform-based user agents (because it's an add-in for the user agent for which the claim is written), or in 6 for web-based user agent (because it's an add-in for the browser hosting the user agent).
<Greg> I'd add a new paragraph between 5 and 6 which would be about configuration changes to the user agent, including add-ins and non-default preference settings.
<Greg> That would be in contrast to the sentence in 6 about configuration changes to the platform on which the user agent is hosted.
eh: configuration changes to the local UA not the Platform. perhaps should be on an SC
gl: would not want may cause conflicts.
<jeanne> User agent information: Provide the name of the user agent and sufficient additional information to specify the version (e.g. vendor name, version number or version range, required patches or updates, human language of the user interface or documentation).
<jeanne> Note: If the user agent is a collection of software components that have different version numbers (e.g. a browser and extensions or plugins), then the name and version information must be provided separately for each component, although the conformance claim will treat them as a whole.
5. User agent information:
a. name
b. version number or version range,
c. required patches or updates, human language of the user interface or documentation).
d. hardware limitations (e.g., audio output enabled, minimum screen size: 2")
e. operating system(s) (e.g., Windows 8, Android 4.0+, iOS 5.0+, GNOME 2)
f. other software environment (Java SE 7+, Eclipse 3.7+)
g. "host" web browser - relevant when the conforming user agent is web-based (e.g., Firefox 14+, Safari 7.0+)
h. Include any required configuration changes to the user agent (e.g. ignore author forground/background color)
<scribe> new...
5. User agent information:
a. name
b. version number or version range,
c. required patches or updates, human language of the user interface or documentation).
d. Include any required configuration changes to the user agent (e.g. ignore author foreground/background color)
------------------------------------------
5. User agent information:
a. name and manufacturer
b. version number or version range,
c. required patches or updates, human language of the user interface or documentation).
d. Include any required configuration changes to the user agent (e.g. ignore author forground/background color)
e. required plugins or extensions with versions (e.g., mouseless browsing)
6. Platform: Describe the *platform* (software and hardware) on which the user agent depends for conformance.
a. name and manufacturer
b. version of key software components (e.g., operating system, operating environment)
c. key hardware components or limitations (e.g., minimum screen size: 2-inch diagonal, audio output device).
d. any required configuration changes to the platform (e.g., turn on sticky keys)
e. operating system(s) (e.g., Windows 8, Android 4.0+, iOS 5.0+, GNOME 2)
f. other software environment (Java SE 7+, Eclipse 3.7+)
g. "host" web browser - relevant when the conforming user agent is web-based (e.g., Firefox 14+, Safari 7.0+)
gl: 3rd party add ons should be a separate list item
js: lets just go with this...
jr: the claimant should list required add-on and versions
all agree this is ok!!!!!!!!!
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137 of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/this, much/may/ Found Scribe: allanj Inferring ScribeNick: allanj WARNING: Dash separator lines found. If you intended them to mark the start of a new topic, you need the -dashTopics option. For example: <Philippe> --- <Philippe> Review of Action Items WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! Possibly Present: Eric Eric_Hansen Greg Greg_Lowney Jan Jeanne Jim_Allan KellyFord KimPatch Kim_Patch Note P10 P15 Platform Proposal aaaa allanj eh gl https ja joined jr js kf kford kp sharper trackbot ua You can indicate people for the Present list like this: <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary <dbooth> Present+ amy Found Date: 28 Mar 2013 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/03/28-ua-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]