W3C

- DRAFT -

SVG Working Group Teleconference

21 Mar 2013

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
+1.425.373.aaaa, Krit, [IPcaller], ed, +61.2.980.5.aabb, nikos, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ChrisL
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
nikos

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 21 March 2013

<ChrisL> yay, a new telcon time that isn't 11pm

<scribe> scribenick: nikos

SVG 2 status

<ChrisL> status - SVG2 full of broken links

<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar/0073.html

ed: There are some problems with broken links
... I took a look at filters, it seems we are referencing the ED of the compositing spec
... Some of the specs we are referencing are quite old. Will we be publishing new versions of them any time soon?

krit: for Filter Effects I'm waiting on feedback on the security model
... For compositing we have problems with stacking contexts to resolve

ChrisL: I'd like to see new versions for specs that have changed. It's ok to point to the old version if there haven't been any changes

krit: I'd like to wait 2-3 weeks for Filter Effects. I'd like feedback from Robert O'Callaghan

nikos: We should check with Rik for Compositing and Blending

ed: For the masking links, I think we need to go through definitions.xml and remove things that are moved to the new spec
... and setup something like definitions-filters.xml for anything filter related
... we should do likewise for compositing and masks

krit: Do you mean we port these files from the other specs to SVG 2?

ChrisL: The xml just defines the links

ed: We can specify the base URL easily in the publish.xml file definition

<ChrisL> so one edit updates all the links that are generated

krit: I've updated the file in the filter effects repository, How do I bring that across to SVG 2?

ed: we need to make sure the definitions file is correct for the last published working draft, as links will change
... we should point to a particular WD

<scribe> ACTION: Erik to fix the definition XML file for filter effects in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-3476 - Fix the definition XML file for filter effects in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version. [on Erik Dahlström - due 2013-03-28].

<scribe> ACTION: Dirk to fix the definition XML file for masking in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-3477 - Fix the definition XML file for masking in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version. [on Dirk Schulze - due 2013-03-28].

<scribe> ACTION: Nikos to fix the definition XML file for compositing and blending in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-3478 - Fix the definition XML file for compositing and blending in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version. [on Nikos Andronikos - due 2013-03-28].

ed: So Chris, you'll do the publication when everything is fixed?

ChrisL: yes, I may need to get someone else to build if my system isn't ready

Referencing the HTML spec

<richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar/0055.html

richardschwerdtfeger: We started looking at this list and got up to item 5
... looking at focus navigation in SVG. I'm trying to follow the same navigation sequencing that is in HTML 5
... they refer to how to parse the browsing context
... in terms of the definition of the browsing context. Does anyone have reservations on me referencing the HTML 5 spec ?

<richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/browsers.html#windows

krit: don't you already reference HTML 5?

richardschwerdtfeger: not for browsing context

<richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/editing.html#sequential-focus-navigation-and-the-tabindex-attribute

richardschwerdtfeger: so for consistency, I just refer to that definition

krit: do we define a window proxy object in SVG?

richardschwerdtfeger: not sure, I don't think so
... we probably will have to

krit: each browsing context requires one

richardschwerdtfeger: do we have a window object in SVG?

krit: yes

richardschwerdtfeger: might not be an issue then
... that makes sense

krit: is window defined in HTML?

richardschwerdtfeger: yes

<richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/browsers.html#window

krit: SVG has a window object too?

ed: yes

richardschwerdtfeger: I don't know that we have all the same methods

krit: we don't have scrolling

<ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/svgudom.html#dom__Window

krit: I think it's fine

ed: I'm not sure that SVG 1.1 has a window definition but SVG 1.2 does

ChrisL: SVG 1.2 tiny was the first W3C to define a window object, but it's probably quite old and HTML5's is more up to date

richardschwerdtfeger: moving on to 6 then
... we need focus and hasFocus from HTMLElement
... should we request HTML move them up to the Element object?
... what do you guys prefer we do here?

krit: might be easier to just put it on SVGElement as well

richardschwerdtfeger: Number 7
... tabIndex is a global attribute in HTML so can apply to any element e.g. the title element

<ChrisL> title {display: block; position: fixed }

ChrisL: it's easy in HTML to say that things in head don't get rendered
... but we have a bunch of stuff that doesn't render by itself e.g. gradients

richardschwerdtfeger: my recommendation is that we apply it to all elements but we stipulate that an element is focusable if the UAs default behaviour is to allow it focusable or it has tabindex
... should we list the elements that don't apply?

krit: what about references via use?

ed: could be tricky, do you get one per use or one per definition?

ChrisL: it's assuming one element produces one rendering and that's not the case here
... we've covered the case with zero renderings, but not multiple
... it's the instances that can be focused

richardschwerdtfeger: so we need to modify the definition?

ChrisL: I think so
... I would need to think about it and take a look at what you have already. Can we do it via email?
... it probably needs to be made to apply to HTML as well

richardschwerdtfeger: so the general definition is ok, but we need to deal with multiple instances
... Number 8
... part of what is needed for sequential flow navigation is to deal with browsing contexts
... it doesn't sound like people don't disagree that we would refer to the definitions?
... I'm trying not to redefine things if possible

ed: Haven't heard any disagreement so I think it's fine

richardschwerdtfeger: we have some inconsistencies in naming like blur and focus out
... This is number 9
... do people have thoughts on mapping between the two?
... browsers handle it but I'd like to hear your thoughts

ChrisL: When it was first proposed it was called blur and then it changed and then changed back
... I vaguely remember firing multiple events, but that's hacky
... how do the HTML browsers handle it? are they consistent?

richardschwerdtfeger: multiple events I think

ed: yes that's correct
... since SVG 1.1 didn't have blur and focus I don't think the browsers have them in an SVG context

krit: my experience is that inline SVG does

richardschwerdtfeger: for backward compatibility we will need focusout
... do we say you only register one handler?
... or do we say blur and focusout are equivalent?
... or do we tell browsers to generate both events?

ed: the question is how backward compatibility it would need to be as I don't think browsers implement this in SVG
... there may not be much content using it

richardschwerdtfeger: the only SVG 1.1 elementthat it might apply to currently is anchor?

ed: animation and editable text in Tiny 1.2 as well

richardschwerdtfeger: so it sounds like we will have a backward compatibility issue if we don't have both events

ed: I don't think it would be a big deal but it might make sense to investigate
... there is probably some content, but not much

richardschwerdtfeger: we will use the HTML names vs the exiting SVG names. So will use blur rather than focusout in the SVG 2 spec

ed: might be safer to deprecate

richardschwerdtfeger: ok we will deprecate the old names and adopt the HTML 5 naming conventions
... Number 10
... do we change the document or do we do something specific in SVG?
... do we want our own version of document or have the HTML 5 document object change?

ed: there are only a few things we have on the SVG document that are in conflict with the HTML 5 document
... I think the HTML 5 spec documents them
... I think for the most part, they are more or less the same. SVG document is a subset
... the only thing the SVG document adds is the root element

richardschwerdtfeger: the HTML one has a lot of stuff we wouldn't implement

ed: do you want to import from the HTML document?

richardschwerdtfeger: we need active element, we asked Anna if he would put it in DOM 4 (we reference DOM 4). He said no, he'd rather we adopt the HTML 5 document interface

<richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar/0072.html

richardschwerdtfeger: last time we discussed it, there was some reluctance to do that
... this carries over into the next agenda item

ed: Dirk you thing it should be on the document interface?

krit1: it feels more natural
... we inherit from HTML document in webkit

ed: I don't have a strong opinion where it goes as long as it's there

richardschwerdtfeger: if we have the two together we'd use the HTML document, if you have standalone SVG what do you do?
... not support some functions? or have a subset?
... Anna's argument was that script developers want access to the entire set of APIs
... but in a standalone environment I'm not sure what to do with that
... Dirk you wanted to preserve the XML document object?

krit1: yes
... I have a strong opinion on that, I'm not sure Mozilla would let SVG document inherit from HTML document
... they want it on the DOM as well

richardschwerdtfeger: I will ask Boris
... we can discuss next week if needed

SVG font-face-src required in the schema but optional in the spec

<ed> http://www.w3.org/mid/CALvn5ECR4cPCgayiKOzGH5U5VZWxCx-bk1JdLSMxSuHG=6nqiA@mail.gmail.com

ed: I was wondering what we want to do with this
... Chris replied and said the DTD is incorrect
... I would agree

ChrisL: I'll take an action to do the errata
... and tell IPDF

<scribe> ACTION: Chris to write errata for ‘font-face-src’ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-3479 - Write errata for ‘font-face-src’ [on Chris Lilley - due 2013-03-28].

<richardschwerdtfeger> have to drop

Matrix specification editorship

krit1: Could Rik and I become co-editor of this?

ed: no objections? That's fine then

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Chris to write errata for ‘font-face-src’ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Dirk to fix the definition XML file for masking in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Erik to fix the definition XML file for filter effects in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Nikos to fix the definition XML file for compositing and blending in SVG 2. Point to a specific published version. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html#action03]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2013/03/21 21:54:41 $

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Succeeded: s/definition/publish.xml file definition/
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Default Present: +1.425.373.aaaa, Krit, [IPcaller], ed, +61.2.980.5.aabb, nikos, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ChrisL
Present: +1.425.373.aaaa Krit [IPcaller] ed +61.2.980.5.aabb nikos Rich_Schwerdtfeger ChrisL
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar/0074.html

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<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 21 Mar 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/03/21-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: chris dirk erik nikos

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