W3C

EOWG Face-to-Face Meeting Minutes
25-26 Feb 2013

Summary

We did not minute much; most of the discussions were captured by edits directly in the documents.

  1. WCAG-EM Overview
  2. Easy Checks
  3. Engaging folks in WAI

Agenda

The agenda morphed from planned; it roughly was as in the F2F meeting page.

Attendees

Present
Andrew, Sharron, Helle, Anna Belle, Jennifer, Wayne, Shadi, Shawn
Regrets
n/a
Chair
Shawn
Scribe
Sharron

Contents


WCAG-EM Overview

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/eval/wcag-em.php

Discussion of the document and point by point changes suggested.

<scribe> ACTION: Andrew to Investigate pros and cons of keeping URI of Prelim Eval -OR- create a redirect. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-eo-irc]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-279 - Investigate pros and cons of keeping URI of Prelim Eval -OR- create a redirect. [on Andrew Arch - due 2013-03-04].

Wayne: Must be clear that this is meant as an audit document. Not meant as a development tool.
... should need to remove "can be used for other purposes" especially the part about developers during development.

Shawn: developers is not an audience included in the documentation of targets for this document

<Zakim> Andrew, you wanted to ask about the 'working draft' link

Andrew: Unless you must demonstrate formal conformance you may not need to go through the WCAG-EM process.

Wayne: But there are many educational aspects inlcluded here

Helle: And they will also use it in the EU for benchmarking

Wayne: Proposes that we eliminate developers from Who Will Use

Andrew: Or say instead "web devs who waht to understand how it will be evaluated"

Wayne: This is too broad - this document is an audit process document. it is NOT for all these other groups.

Sharron: Yes and it is a distraction to inlcude groups who may be peripherally interested but not actual users.

Helle: it will be auditors of government regulators, corporate, educational, or third party consultants.
... not necessary to list all of them.

Jennifer: Internal or external auditors.

Wayne: both are necessary

Sharron: It is for the direct use of auditors and benchmarking. Also referenced by procurment and management.

Wayne: WCAG-EM is for people who want to spend an exciting life in Web auditing.

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20130208#audience

Jennifer: Disability advocates are listed on the Editor's Draft but truly, that group will not use it.
... and teachers, if they are training someone to use it, of course will use it but do not need to be called out as an audience. If youa re teaching any topic, you refer to the topic.

Andrew: In the needed skills, is it strong enough to say "knowledge of WCAG?" Is that strong enough?

Easy Checks - Color Contrast section

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Web_Accessibility_Preliminary_Evaluation#Color_contrast

Wayne: Can we less specific, say dark text on light background for example and bright text on dark background.

Wayne: There are pros and cons of each type of testing tool for color-contrast:

First is the code based testing tools: Pros are easy to run, fast; cons are that it is can show up false failures.

Wayne: ...Second is the eyedropper is quick, you focus on the ones that could be a problem and you get accurate result. Con is that it is tedious, one by one, requires sight and mouse use.
... Finally is the brightness tool, it is quick, experiential. con is that it requires sight, inaccurate will only raise a flag

Shawn: Rather than say what the basis - code, eye dropper, brightness - say what kind of result the tester will get. A table of values, with yellow highlight of questionable outcomes, a visual output
... of forground, background and contrast value. Third would be a greyscale representation of the page.

Zoom and Resize Text

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Web_Accessibility_Preliminary_Evaluation#Zoom_and_text_size

Wayne: drop off the opening parentetical statement

Conclusion is we will not inlcude the check for font size largest becasue it requires a specific old browser that most people don't have.

Shawn: When page is zoomed, either the whole page or just the text, make sure they don't overlap of get cutoff?
... is it important to distinguish between text only zoom vs entire page zoom.

WCAG-EM Overview with Shadi

<shadi> WCAG-EM focuses primarily on conformance evaluation of existing websites. Other aspects of evaluation are addressed in related pages of the Evaluating Web Accessibility resource suite. For example, guidance to help you better understand real-world accessibility issues and evaluate effective accessibility solutions is in Involving Users in Evaluating Web Accessibility.

<shadi> Note: Accessibility should not be left until the evaluation stage; it should be integrated from the beginning and throughout the project lifecycle — in planning, design, and development.

WCAG-EM is primarily for evaluating conformance of existing websites. However, accessibility should not be left until the evaluation stage; it should be integrated from the beginning and throughout the project lifecycle — in planning, design, and development.

Other aspects of evaluation are addressed in related pages of the Evaluating Web Accessibility resource suite. For example, guidance to help you better understand real-world accessibility issues and evaluate effective accessibility solutions is in Involving Users in Evaluating Web Accessibility.

Wayne: When we implemented web accessiiblity the people who decided what web developers should know (at UC long beach) were disability service coordinators and administrators. They would read pages like the WCAG EM overview or other overview docusments everywhere.

It didn't work very well becasue this assignment was far too big for the scope of most devs. They checked out and thought accessiiblity was too big, too hard and the things they needed were not provided.

scribe: so since this is not in the day-to-day tasks of the coders and developers.
... it is seen to be irrelelvant.

Shadi: I agree with the past targeting being inaccurate. However, we do that in WCAG-EM. The Overview does not target developers and the WCAG-EM itself includes them only in a general way.

Wayne: We really need to take on that list that is in the main document. It is too big, they are not all inlcuded in who the docuemnt really IS for.
... if Tom and I had that at the time, we could have used it.

Shadi: Maybe keep the long list as possible scenarios

Wayne: Yes good idea

Shawn: Anything else for Shadi to bring to WCAG-EM TF?

Engaging folks in WAI

WAI in the community

Easy Checks

Split up into subgroups and worked on specific sections:

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Andrew to Investigate pros and cons of keeping URI of Prelim Eval -OR- create a redirect. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-eo-irc]
 
[End of minutes]

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