W3C

- DRAFT -

Forms Working Group Teleconference

30 Jan 2013

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
ebruchez, [IPcaller], nvdbleek, alain, unl, Steven
Regrets
Philip
Chair
Steven
Scribe
Nick, Steven

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 30 January 2013

<Steven> Scribe: Nick

XML London 15-16th June

<scribe> scribenick:nvdbleek

Steven: This is a new XML conference

http://xmllondon.com/

<Steven> Deadline 15th Mar 2013

XForms 2.0 spec review: The var element

<Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Jan/0012.html

Steven: So erik

ebruchez: I did some clean-up
... Nick it looks like you took the xslt text and change at less as possible

nvdbleek: All the changes you made make it more readable, so the changes are definitely fine

ebruchez: We disallow shadowing. XSLT allows it. I could go either way.

nvdbleek: Disallowing shadowing for now is ok for me, I rarely used in XSLT and don't see any use cases in XForms for now

ebruchez: We need some samples of use cases for variables
... I can come up with some examples

ACTION ebruchez to add exmples of the use of variables to the XForms 2.0

<trackbot> Error finding 'ebruchez'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/users>.

<Steven> ACTION: erik to add exmples of the use of variables to the XForms 2.0 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/30-forms-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1922 - Add exmples of the use of variables to the XForms 2.0 [on Erik Bruchez - due 2013-02-06].

XForms 2.0 spec review: External JSON values

<Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Jan/0013.html

Steven: Erik says that "We need to specify what happens if the format is invalid during submission."
... fair enough

ebruchez: We should at least mention that submission will fail if the processor can't convert the XML to JSON
... Related: should we explicitly say that unknown elements/attributes

are ignored? Or only those in a namespace? This could be useful so

that you can locally annotate the XML document yet still submit it back to JSON.

ebruchez: any xml element in the default namespace could be converted to JSON, but elements in another namesapce wouldn't be converted to JSON

Steven: We should say that namespace elements and unknown attributes should be ignored while converted to JSON (they can be used as meta-data)

ACTION Steven To add text that submission will fail if the XML can't be converted to JSON

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1923 - Add text that submission will fail if the XML can't be converted to JSON [on Steven Pemberton - due 2013-02-06].

ACTION Steven Add text to the spec that elements not in the default namespace and unknown attributes won't be taken into account when serialising the XML to JSON

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1924 - Add text to the spec that elements not in the default namespace and unknown attributes won't be taken into account when serialising the XML to JSON [on Steven Pemberton - due 2013-02-06].

ebruchez: marked by the header parameter of the media type

Steven: We use it to specify if the CSV header row should be added or not

<Steven> "Optional parameters: charset, header

<Steven> Common usage of CSV is US-ASCII, but other character sets defined

<Steven> by IANA for the "text" tree may be used in conjunction with the

<Steven> "charset" parameter.

<Steven> The "header" parameter indicates the presence or absence of the

<Steven> header line. Valid values are "present" or "absent".

<Steven> Implementors choosing not to use this parameter must make their

<Steven> own decisions as to whether the header line is present or absent."

<Steven> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4180

<ebruchez> Valid values are "present" or "absent"

Steven: I have to investigate what people have done when the header parameter is left out, because the spec doesn't tell what to do

<Steven> ACTION: Steven toinvestigate what happens when header param of csv files is left off [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/30-forms-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1925 - Toinvestigate what happens when header param of csv files is left off [on Steven Pemberton - due 2013-02-06].

ebruchez: You have to go to the rfc to know the value

Steven: I can at least at a reference to the spec there

<Steven> ACTION: Steven to add ref to CSV spec at the mention of the header param [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/30-forms-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1926 - Add ref to CSV spec at the mention of the header param [on Steven Pemberton - due 2013-02-06].

unl: I have a question about the header element
... if you have a header then you create elements with it as element name, if absent the elements are called v
... I'm concerned when we serialize back how you know if there was an header or not

ebruchez: My understanding was, that if you want a header row you specified it on the submission

unl: Ok this might not be a problem then

ebruchez: If you want to know if the incoming csv has a header row of not

Steven: I think that it is a big fault in the csv format that you can't know looking at the content that you have a header row or not

ebruchez: What if it served incorrectly, and the header states that there is no header but there is a header

Steven: It is not only for CSV, it is also for XML documents, if the header is incorrect then we won't accept the XML
... There is a problem when you load CSV from the filesystem, because then you don't have any headers

<ebruchez> CSV issue #1: what if header attribute is missing in content type?

Steven: Lets remember this as a problem, but I don't see a solution at the moment

<ebruchez> CSV issue #2: can XForms know whether the response had the header attribute (e.g. so it can serialize it back with or without a header row).

<Steven> Conclusion: no header param is the same as headers=absent

<Steven> ACTION: Steven to add no header param means the same as headers=absent [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/30-forms-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1927 - Add no header param means the same as headers=absent [on Steven Pemberton - due 2013-02-06].

XForms 2.0 spec review: misc fixes

<Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Jan/0014.html

ebruchez: Minor edit
... The introduction is outdated

Steven: I will be happy to have a look at it

<Steven> ACTION: Steven to review intro to XForms [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/30-forms-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1928 - Review intro to XForms [on Steven Pemberton - due 2013-02-06].

The XForms Dialog Module

<Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Jan/0019.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Jan/0021.html

ebruchez: We noticed that dialog was missing, Nick recalled only two open issues
... There is slight bias to show and hide

RESOLUTION: We will use show and hide in the dialog module

<Steven> So resolved

ebruchez: It is done as a separate module

Steven: It can be a separate module in the main spec

ebruchez: We don't need to create a separate file

<Steven> scribe: Nick

<Steven> scribe: Steven

Erik: Let's just put it in the main body of the spec

Uli: We need to talk about relevance

Steven: But not in two minutes, let's save it to next week

[ADJOURN]

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: erik to add exmples of the use of variables to the XForms 2.0 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/30-forms-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Steven to add no header param means the same as headers=absent [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/30-forms-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Steven to add ref to CSV spec at the mention of the header param [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/30-forms-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Steven to review intro to XForms [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/30-forms-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Steven toinvestigate what happens when header param of csv files is left off [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/30-forms-minutes.html#action02]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.137 (CVS log)
$Date: 2013-01-30 16:59:42 $

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Succeeded: s/mis/is/
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Found Scribe: Nick
Found ScribeNick: nvdbleek
Found Scribe: Nick
Found Scribe: Steven
Inferring ScribeNick: Steven
Scribes: Nick, Steven
ScribeNicks: nvdbleek, Steven
Default Present: ebruchez, [IPcaller], nvdbleek, alain, unl, Steven
Present: ebruchez [IPcaller] nvdbleek alain unl Steven
Regrets: Philip
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Jan/0032
Found Date: 30 Jan 2013
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2013/01/30-forms-minutes.html
People with action items: erik steven

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