See also: IRC log
<PhilA2> tomasz: Opens the meeting
tomasz: welcomes everyone,
introduces speakers
... asks for tour de table for personal introductions
phil, i will be scribing
<PhilA2> scribe: fhenning
<PhilA2> scribeNick: fhenning
<SamG> fhenning is scribing ... i am learning how to scribe
thanks phil
<PhilA2> slides are at http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/images/2/24/WC3_egovt%2C_21_January_2013.pdf
Keitha_: slide2:
... ...Clear Cabinet decision and intent “proactive disclosure”
OIA review
phil, i'm sorry, audio is again too bad here - may i ask you to take over with scribing?
thank you
<PhilA2> slide 5 shows layers and importance of various factors
<PhilA2> slide 6
<PhilA2> Keitha: NZ Gov retains copyright
<PhilA2> ... uses Creative COmmons, mostly ccBy
<PhilA2> ... data must be published on data.govt.nz. Praised by Andrew Stott but he also noted that it's not being used enough
<PhilA2> ... features include requests for data
<PhilA2> Reference point for those unfamiliar with Andrew Stott, see bottom of page at http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/content/public-sector-transparency-board-who's-who
<PhilA2> slide 9 (I think)
<PhilA2> Keitha_: emphasises use of CSV as open format
<PhilA2> Keitha: Highlights some users of NZ data, such as Zoodle
<PhilA2> ... watch my street is a competitor
<PhilA2> ... koordinates hosts a lot of topographical info. used a lot by government itself (scribe I think I caught that right)
<PhilA2> scribe: PhilA2
<scribe> scribeNick: PhilA2
Keitha: Good examples on unintended uses of the data
slide 11 shows more examples of use of the data
slide 14 shows uses of the data for transparency
slide 15 - should gov be producing Apps or should third parties do that?
schools have found creating Apps a useful way to get info to people
scribe: also holiday makers. Lots of Apps for tide tables, tourist-related Apps etc. Often collaborations between gov departments and local groups
slide 16 - talking about sustaining the work
Keitha_: Working on strategy for 2017. AN update of current eGov strategies. Managing data as a strategic asset is an important part of that
PhilA2: What is reasonably priced?
<GwynSutherlin> I thought that was a great slide
Keitha: We'd like it to be free, but we're not able to go as far as free. It's the cost of dissemination
PhilA2: Can you measure the economic benefit oft he data? and can that show that the revenue more than covers the cost of publication?
Keitha: Looked at Uk and Aus. The normal cost-benefit analysis won't work. Advised to focus on higher level economic impacts
<laurenceNZ> I think it is more the economic benefit rather than revenue
Keitha: we're now looking at prepaing case studies
<SamG> sorry just exploring
Keitha_: Looking ahead to analysis in 3 years' time to whether we have met the target for the system as a whole
tomasz: Is there some systematic way to measure impact on gov and priv sector?
Keitha: Not at the moment. We're
relying on what departmetns are telling us
... Had an early benchmark report but it was too early to give
us an answer on that. But I'm happy to report back in 6 months'
time
... Expecting to get a report to cabinet in that period
<SamG> how is this OIA?
tomasz: Thanks Keitha for the presentation
<GwynSutherlin> thanks Keitha, very interesting
Slides are at http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/images/2/26/W3c-egov-opendatatw.pdf
<laurenceNZ> There was an EU case study that showed a 1.7%impact on GDP from open data
<laurenceNZ> Links to work from the EU that gives some teeth to the economic value argument. The headline is "direct and indirect economic benefits for the economy are of the order of 1.7% of GDP" .. which should be a compelling story. LINKS: the research http://bit.ly/MJFd9X the powerpoint http://bit.ly/N20GeZ Also some work, led by Deloitte, into the pricing of PSI: the powerpoint http://bit.ly/M7VvNO the summary report (2MB) http://bit.ly/KIti1N full repo[CUT]
thschee: We have a lot of data
published on the RoC site
... Translating a lot of info from OKFN and elsewhere. Open
Data movement growing in Taiwan
<scribe> ... new open data legislation being drafted
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: regulation due
to take effect in a matter of months
... Open Data portal opened last year
... you can find a lot of cultural data there
PhilA2: Notes that Wang Mei-Hsueh, Academia Sinica Research Center for Information Technology Innovation, Taiwan took part in last year's W3C workshop on this (Deirdre and GwynSutherlin were there ;-) http://www.w3.org/2012/06/pmod/agenda
thschee: Portals like data.gov.tw
often launched in a bit of a rush - c'est la vie
... We have 3 portals but licensing not consistent, not all
free and so on so developers are having a hard time getting the
data.
... using Microsoft's OGDI platform
PhilA2: Reference for Microsoft's OGDI http://www.microsoft.com/government/ww/public-services/initiatives/Pages/open-government-data-initiative.aspx
thschee: Monitoring usage of Apps
so we can see the demand - which is high
... gov promoting Apps
... if you are creating Apps using the Taiwan open data -
you;re doing better than the gov wehich is finding it a little
hard
slide 6
thschee: Getting a lot of
stakeholders together
... Creative Commons Taiwan
... Open Street Map Taiwan etc.
... some people doing better job of publishing gov data by
scraping Web sites than gov itself doing by publishing the
data
... common belief that your data will be used by others to do
you harm
slide 7 - focus on current strategy
slide 8 - shows relationships. Taiwan has hackathons every month
scribe: ecosystem is cooperative effort in that it's gov and private sector
PhilA2: Can you expand on the issue of people being reluctant to publish their data through fear
thschee: We're working to expose
the work and get it on the agenda of politicians through the
media
... then you have to deliver solutions that may be open
source-based
... with launch of open data portals, lots of companies behind
gov tenders, some thought it would be a good cash cow...
... needs high level support - work top down
PhilA2: So with talk about open source and companies circling round looking for contacts - why go for Microsoft rather than, for e.g. CKAN?
<BRAND> I have found that some commercial products are more mature for data federation than CKAN
PhilA2: confidence, speed, and CKAN not good witch Chinese characters
thschee: gov wanted a quick solution that works out of the box
tomasz: On your last slide - do
you have a concept of maturity in the use of open gov
data?
... how mature is the use of OGD?
thschee: The tech start ups are
pretty mature. They know about the limitations, esp. of licnces
etc.
... making good profits with small teams of developers
slides http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/images/4/47/BrandNiemann01212013.pdf
<BRAND> http://semanticommunity.info/@api/deki/files/21031/OpenGovernmentDatainJapan01182013.pdf Additional backup slides for Brand Niemann
BRAND: introduces himself and his
work
... been asked to help the Data Transparency Coalition (see
recent talk by Hudson Hollister)
... working with big dataand analytics
... helping open data for Japan
... getting the right people, etc. in place
... also working on strategy for big data more than open
data
... now in era of data scientist
Slide 2
Been asked to look at current landscape of open data round the world.
Look at Mosaic effect where multiple sources of data together reveal personal or otehr data that might be detrimental to national security
slide 3 shows current big picture
slide 4 offers a big solution
BRAND: People I speak to are all
supportive but they're looking for ROI. We need something soon
or we'll move on to something else
... talks about cell level secutiry
<laurenceNZ> Laurence is leaving the call
BRAND: We already have a good
deal of knowledge about open government data. Refers to recent
NIST conference on cloud copmputing
... someone from intelligence community looking at potential
mosaic effect, someone with good background in data
analytics
slide 7. NIEM admits not had as much success with working with private sector as they'd like. Oracle prob had more success at implementing NIEM than NIEM itself
slide 8 - METI - biggest ministry in Japan
BRAND: Govs need chief data
officers, they need teams of data scientists and
statisticians...
... they need a return on investment. I've been saying they
should work with the right people/skills
... I've developed a 5 step recipe (slide 10)
... Spotfire dashboard seems more stable and powerful than, for
example, CKAN
5 steps are independent of the tools (I've just shown the ones I use)
slide 11 maps this to TimBLs 5 stars data
slide 12 shows the Japanese yearbook in the dashboard. Takes a while to load but very powerful
scribe: individual data sets are
small but combined together they form big data
... I was interested in the recent earthquake and its
effects
slide 14 - some of the data in CKAN portal is not to well sourced as others
Todd Park's deputy reckons that city data is prob more valuable than the national stuff
BRAND: Conclusion (slide 16)
Keitha: What is the definition of statistics. In NZ we're moving in the open data world - the stuff they have is mostly survey results cf. administrative data - stuff that doesn't come from surveys
BRAND: We had a recent conference
with the Association of Public Data users. The people from that
stat community (framework data) all realisedd that there's this
new source of data from social media
... it's scary as it's not collected methodically, But they
recoignise it's improtant
... meanwhile the social media people are becoming aware of the
otehr community
... we need to brign the two together of course. It's exciting
to work with both
... the proceedings of that are interesting. People from
statistical agencies looking at how social media data can be
brought in in such a way that the stat agencies can use
Todd Park has said that data scientists need to come to our hackathons and expalin what this data means
Keitha: Let's keep talking. The otehr area for us is anonymisation of personal data
<SamG> how can you validate social media data?
Keitha: you talked about security etc. I'd like to continue talking about that with you. Tends to be about anonymisation of survey datam rather than admin data
BRAND: People who work on the data are sworn to lie - i.e. not reveal what they've seen - and then they aggregate up until it becomes anonymous
<BRAND> http://semanticommunity.info/AOL_Government/APDU
tomasz: Closes the meeting
<HadleyBeeman> Thanks, tomasz!
<GwynSutherlin> thanks
tomasz: Next meeting topic is open to suggestion. We've had 5 on this topic