Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 19 November 2012

Seen
Andrei Sambra, Andy Seaborne, Antonis Loizou, Arnaud Le Hors, Ashok Malhotra, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Erik Wilde, Henry Story, John Arwe, Kalpa Gunaratna, Kevin Page, Michael Hausenblas, Nandana Mihindukulasooriya, Olivier Berger, Raúl García Castro, Richard Cyganiak, Roger Menday, Steve Battle, Steve Speicher, Ted Thibodeau, Yrjana Rankka, Yves Lafon
Chair
Arnaud Le Hors
Scribe
Andrei Sambra
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. Minutes of Nov 12th approved link
  2. Open ISSUE-30 link
  3. open ISSUE-36 link
  4. open ISSUE-37 link
  5. open ISSUE-38 link
  6. open ISSUE-39 link
Topics
14:59:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/19-ldp-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/19-ldp-irc

15:00:00 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public

15:00:02 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP

15:00:02 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started

15:00:03 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
15:00:03 <trackbot> Date: 19 November 2012
15:00:11 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here?

15:00:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see SteveBattle, OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see SteveBattle, OpenLink_Software

15:00:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, AshokMalhotra, dret, MacTed, ghard, deiu, betehess, SteveS, stevebattle, bblfish, oberger, nathanr, Arnaud, trackbot, Yves, sandro, ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, AshokMalhotra, dret, MacTed, ghard, deiu, betehess, SteveS, stevebattle, bblfish, oberger, nathanr, Arnaud, trackbot, Yves, sandro, ericP

15:00:16 <Zakim> +[IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM]

15:00:18 <AshokMalhotra> zakim, code?

Ashok Malhotra: zakim, code?

15:00:18 <Zakim> the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), AshokMalhotra

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), AshokMalhotra

15:00:19 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

15:00:20 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

15:00:21 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:00:22 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

15:00:28 <SteveS> Zakim, [IBM] is me

Steve Speicher: Zakim, [IBM] is me

15:00:29 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveS; got it

15:00:30 <Zakim> + +1.510.206.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.510.206.aaaa

15:00:34 <Zakim> +??P31

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P31

15:00:38 <Zakim> +??P32

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P32

15:00:42 <Zakim> +Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud

15:00:43 <deiu> Zakim, ??P31 is me

Andrei Sambra: Zakim, ??P31 is me

15:00:43 <Zakim> +deiu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +deiu; got it

15:01:01 <dret> zakim, who's here?

Erik Wilde: zakim, who's here?

15:01:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see SteveBattle, MacTed (muted), SteveS, +1.510.206.aaaa, deiu, ??P32, Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see SteveBattle, MacTed (muted), SteveS, +1.510.206.aaaa, deiu, ??P32, Arnaud

15:01:01 <deiu> Zakim, mute me please

Andrei Sambra: Zakim, mute me please

15:01:03 <Zakim> On IRC I see JohnArwe, Zakim, RRSAgent, AshokMalhotra, dret, MacTed, ghard, deiu, betehess, SteveS, stevebattle, bblfish, oberger, nathanr, Arnaud, trackbot, Yves, sandro, ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see JohnArwe, Zakim, RRSAgent, AshokMalhotra, dret, MacTed, ghard, deiu, betehess, SteveS, stevebattle, bblfish, oberger, nathanr, Arnaud, trackbot, Yves, sandro, ericP

15:01:03 <Zakim> deiu should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: deiu should now be muted

15:01:06 <Zakim> +JohnArwe

Zakim IRC Bot: +JohnArwe

15:01:10 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ashok_Malhotra

15:01:12 <deiu> scribe: Andrei Sambra

(Scribe set to Andrei Sambra)

15:01:16 <deiu> scribenick: deiu
15:01:20 <dret> zakim, +1.510.206.aaaa is me

Erik Wilde: zakim, +1.510.206.aaaa is me

15:01:21 <Zakim> +dret; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +dret; got it

15:02:23 <Zakim> +[GVoice]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[GVoice]

15:02:33 <ericP> Zakim, [GVoice] is me

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, [GVoice] is me

15:02:33 <Zakim> +ericP; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP; got it

15:02:50 <Zakim> +??P49

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P49

15:03:00 <oberger> Zakim, ??P49 is me

Olivier Berger: Zakim, ??P49 is me

15:03:00 <Zakim> +oberger; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +oberger; got it

15:03:06 <oberger> Zakim, mute me

Olivier Berger: Zakim, mute me

15:03:06 <Zakim> oberger should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: oberger should now be muted

15:03:16 <deiu> I am

I am

15:03:59 <Zakim> +Yves

Zakim IRC Bot: +Yves

15:03:59 <deiu> Chair: Arnaud
15:04:11 <deiu> Topic: Minutes from last week

1. Minutes from last week

<deiu> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-11-12

http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-11-12

15:04:19 <SteveS> has not read or looked yet

Steve Speicher: has not read or looked yet

15:04:31 <dret> looked and they looked ok

Erik Wilde: looked and they looked ok

15:04:56 <deiu> RESOLVED: Minutes of Nov 12th approved

RESOLVED: Minutes of Nov 12th approved

15:05:40 <oberger> Topic: Tracking of Actions & Issues

2. Tracking of Actions & Issues

15:05:44 <Zakim> +??P60

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P60

<deiu> Subtopic: Actions

2.1. Actions

15:05:46 <deiu> Arnaud: no actions pending review, moving to open actions

Arnaud Le Hors: no actions pending review, moving to open actions

15:05:46 <deiu> ... anyone wanting to declare victory on an action?

... anyone wanting to declare victory on an action?

<deiu> ... Hearing none, let's move to issues

... Hearing none, let's move to issues

<deiu> Subtopic: Raised issues

2.2. Raised issues

15:05:56 <deiu> ... We have several issues

... We have several issues

15:06:04 <raul> zakim, ??P60 is me

Raúl García Castro: zakim, ??P60 is me

15:06:04 <Zakim> +raul; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +raul; got it

15:06:42 <Zakim> +??P62

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P62

15:06:56 <oberger> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/30

Olivier Berger: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/30

15:07:07 <Zakim> +MHausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: +MHausenblas

15:07:11 <nmihindu> zakim, ??P62 is me

Nandana Mihindukulasooriya: zakim, ??P62 is me

15:07:11 <Zakim> +nmihindu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +nmihindu; got it

15:07:15 <cygri> zakim, i'm with mhausenblas

Richard Cyganiak: zakim, i'm with mhausenblas

15:07:15 <Zakim> +cygri; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it

15:07:33 <Zakim> +??P61

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P61

15:07:42 <stevebattle> q+

Steve Battle: q+

15:07:43 <ghard> zakim, ??P61 is me

Yrjana Rankka: zakim, ??P61 is me

15:07:46 <Zakim> +ghard; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ghard; got it

15:07:50 <Zakim> +??P64

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P64

15:07:50 <Zakim> + +44.208.573.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.208.573.aabb

15:08:04 <krp> zakim, ??P64 is me

Kevin Page: zakim, ??P64 is me

15:08:05 <Zakim> +krp; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +krp; got it

15:08:19 <deiu> Arnaud: the problem we had with use cases was that it seems unreasonable for people to add use cases and requirements, so we asked people to open issues as a buffer, to wait for issues to be added to the document

Arnaud Le Hors: the problem we had with use cases was that it seems unreasonable for people to add use cases and requirements, so we asked people to open issues as a buffer, to wait for issues to be added to the document

15:08:30 <ghard> zakim, mute me

Yrjana Rankka: zakim, mute me

15:08:30 <Zakim> ghard should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: ghard should now be muted

15:08:39 <deiu> ... we should open issue 30

... we should open ISSUE-30

15:08:51 <deiu> ISSUE30?

ISSUE-30?

15:08:56 <stevebattle> q-

Steve Battle: q-

15:09:00 <oberger> Issue-30?

Olivier Berger: ISSUE-30?

15:09:00 <trackbot> ISSUE-30 -- Hierarchical bugtracking service -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-30 -- Hierarchical bugtracking service -- open

15:09:00 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/30

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/30

15:09:13 <deiu> RESOLVED: Open ISSUE-30

RESOLVED: Open ISSUE-30

15:09:26 <Zakim> +??P67

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P67

15:09:42 <deiu> Issue-36?

ISSUE-36?

15:09:42 <trackbot> ISSUE-36 -- Can applications create new containers? -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-36 -- Can applications create new containers? -- raised

15:09:42 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/36

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/36

15:09:49 <antonis> Zakim, ??p67 is me

Antonis Loizou: Zakim, ??p67 is me

15:09:49 <Zakim> +antonis; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +antonis; got it

15:10:11 <dret> q+

Erik Wilde: q+

15:10:20 <Arnaud> ack dret

Arnaud Le Hors: ack dret

15:10:25 <deiu> Arnaud: people think this is an important issue

Arnaud Le Hors: people think this is an important issue

15:10:53 <deiu> ericP: this is a sub-issue of the model issue (ISSUE-37)

Eric Prud'hommeaux: this is a sub-issue of the model issue (ISSUE-37)

15:11:21 <Zakim> -krp

Zakim IRC Bot: -krp

15:11:32 <deiu> Arnaud: you are right; should we then raise it as a different issue or close ISSUE-36 and fold into ISSUE-37?

Arnaud Le Hors: you are right; should we then raise it as a different issue or close ISSUE-36 and fold into ISSUE-37?

15:11:44 <cygri> specific issues are better than generic issues

Richard Cyganiak: specific issues are better than generic issues

15:11:53 <Zakim> +bblfish

Zakim IRC Bot: +bblfish

15:11:53 <SteveS> q+

Steve Speicher: q+

15:12:07 <Arnaud> ack steves

Arnaud Le Hors: ack steves

15:12:08 <deiu> ack SteveS

ack SteveS

15:12:11 <bblfish> yes, that was me

Henry Story: yes, that was me

15:12:21 <deiu> SteveS: we should leave it there and not close it

Steve Speicher: we should leave it there and not close it

15:12:27 <Zakim> +??P64

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P64

15:12:35 <deiu> ... what do we mean by application? client or server?

... what do we mean by application? client or server?

15:12:36 <AndyS> zakim, ??P64 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P64 is me

15:12:36 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

15:12:40 <dret> yes, i think it talks about the protocol

Erik Wilde: yes, i think it talks about the protocol

15:12:40 <rogerm> who am i

Roger Menday: who am i

15:12:56 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/36

Richard Cyganiak: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/36

15:12:56 <Zakim> +??P72

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P72

15:13:03 <dret> the server is opaque magic, as far as REST is concerned

Erik Wilde: the server is opaque magic, as far as REST is concerned

15:13:13 <krp> zakim, ??P72 is me

Kevin Page: zakim, ??P72 is me

15:13:13 <Zakim> +krp; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +krp; got it

15:13:41 <deiu> AndyS: the application is in the client, and servers are deployed with an application framework

Andy Seaborne: the application is in the client, and servers are deployed with an application framework

15:14:20 <rogerm> zakim, aabb is me

Roger Menday: zakim, aabb is me

15:14:20 <Zakim> +rogerm; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +rogerm; got it

15:14:34 <deiu> Arnaud: we will open ISSUE-36 and then close it later once we have addressed the bigger question of the model

Arnaud Le Hors: we will open ISSUE-36 and then close it later once we have addressed the bigger question of the model

15:14:43 <AndyS> ... another model is servers are neutral to the application design, and all logic is in the client

Andy Seaborne: ... another model is servers are neutral to the application design, and all logic is in the client

15:14:50 <dret> the REST view would be: servers create a media type (i.e., they can engage in conversation supporting this data model and associated behavior), and clients can then engage in conversations.

Erik Wilde: the REST view would be: servers create a media type (i.e., they can engage in conversation supporting this data model and associated behavior), and clients can then engage in conversations.

15:15:12 <oberger> issue-37?

Olivier Berger: ISSUE-37?

15:15:12 <trackbot> ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- raised

15:15:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37

15:15:13 <Arnaud> ok

Arnaud Le Hors: ok

15:15:24 <Zakim> -krp

Zakim IRC Bot: -krp

15:15:29 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: open ISSUE-36

RESOLVED: open ISSUE-36

15:15:30 <Zakim> +Kalpa

Zakim IRC Bot: +Kalpa

15:15:40 <Arnaud> reopen ISSUE-36

Arnaud Le Hors: reopen ISSUE-36

15:15:40 <trackbot> ISSUE-36 Can applications create new containers? re-opened

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-36 Can applications create new containers? re-opened

15:15:49 <deiu> ericP: need clarification to say what it is that we do, what are the resources that we use, the hyperlinks to them

Erik Wilde: need clarification to say what it is that we do, what are the resources that we use, the hyperlinks to them

15:16:01 <deiu> ... now everything is implicit and not defined in one place

... now everything is implicit and not defined in one place

15:16:10 <Arnaud> s/ericP/dret/
15:16:10 <deiu> ... maybe we can have an introductory section

... maybe we can have an introductory section

15:16:29 <deiu> ... these questions should be answered in that section

... these questions should be answered in that section

15:17:01 <deiu> ... that section could be structured similar to what has been described in the email 127

... that section could be structured similar to what has been described in the email 127

15:17:15 <deiu> ... we can fill it in in whatever way we see fit

... we can fill it in in whatever way we see fit

15:17:30 <deiu> ... the only feedback was that we should definitely have that in the spec

... the only feedback was that we should definitely have that in the spec

15:17:49 <deiu> Arnaud: that will be a useful thing to have, giving us a general guideline

Arnaud Le Hors: that will be a useful thing to have, giving us a general guideline

15:18:00 <stevebattle> +1

Steve Battle: +1

15:18:16 <dret> i'd volunteer to write such a section, if that help to drive things forward.

Erik Wilde: i'd volunteer to write such a section, if that help to drive things forward.

15:18:18 <deiu> ... general questions: who can create LDPC/R; who can delete them, etc.

... general questions: who can create LDPC/R; who can delete them, etc.

15:18:22 <deiu> ... we need a general description

... we need a general description

15:18:35 <deiu> ... no objections

... no objections

15:18:36 <oberger> There has been already quite some support indeed

Olivier Berger: There has been already quite some support indeed

15:18:38 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: open ISSUE-37

RESOLVED: open ISSUE-37

15:18:46 <Arnaud> reopen ISSUE-37

Arnaud Le Hors: reopen ISSUE-37

15:18:46 <trackbot> ISSUE-37 What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? re-opened

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-37 What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? re-opened

15:18:58 <deiu> ISSUE-38?

ISSUE-38?

15:18:58 <trackbot> ISSUE-38 -- filtered representations and inlining -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-38 -- filtered representations and inlining -- raised

15:18:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/38

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/38

15:19:03 <AndyS> Good idea to explicitly state the formal design - seems to help some people.

Andy Seaborne: Good idea to explicitly state the formal design - seems to help some people.

15:19:11 <deiu> AndyS, +1

AndyS, +1

15:19:39 <JohnArwe> zakim, who is speaking?

John Arwe: zakim, who is speaking?

15:19:50 <Zakim> JohnArwe, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds

Zakim IRC Bot: JohnArwe, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds

15:20:22 <deiu> [rogerm is describing the issue from his email]

[rogerm is describing the issue from his email]

15:20:25 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

15:20:31 <deiu> Arnaud: this is a reasonable question to ask

Arnaud Le Hors: this is a reasonable question to ask

15:20:37 <cygri> q+ to suggest it can be subsumed under ISSUE-32

Richard Cyganiak: q+ to suggest it can be subsumed under ISSUE-32

15:20:43 <Arnaud> ack cygri

Arnaud Le Hors: ack cygri

15:20:43 <Zakim> cygri, you wanted to suggest it can be subsumed under ISSUE-32

Zakim IRC Bot: cygri, you wanted to suggest it can be subsumed under ISSUE-32

15:20:45 <cygri> ISSUE-32

Richard Cyganiak: ISSUE-32

15:20:45 <deiu> ... but where do we draw the line?

... but where do we draw the line?

15:20:48 <cygri> ISSUE-32?

Richard Cyganiak: ISSUE-32?

15:20:48 <trackbot> ISSUE-32 -- How can clients discover that a resource is an LDPR or LDPC, and what features are supported? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-32 -- How can clients discover that a resource is an LDPR or LDPC, and what features are supported? -- open

15:20:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/32

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/32

15:21:51 <dret> regarding ISSUE-32: in AtomPub, it's up to the client to either embed the resource contents or link to it. then the server simply manages it like that, and always returns it like it was created.

Erik Wilde: regarding ISSUE-32: in AtomPub, it's up to the client to either embed the resource contents or link to it. then the server simply manages it like that, and always returns it like it was created.

15:21:52 <deiu> Richard: maybe we can update the ISSUE-32 description to mention what ISSUE-38 is trying to achieve

Roger Menday: maybe we can update the ISSUE-38 description to mention what ISSUE-38 is trying to achieve

15:21:56 <stevebattle> I don't think this is covered under 32 - 32 is about descriptions of affordances.

Steve Battle: I don't think this is covered under 32 - 32 is about descriptions of affordances.

15:22:13 <dret> s/ISSUE-32/ISSUE-38/
15:22:17 <oberger> adding pointers to eachother's in 32 and 38

Olivier Berger: adding pointers to eachother's in 32 and 38

15:22:33 <Zakim> +??P66

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P66

15:22:36 <oberger> deiu, rogerm

Olivier Berger: deiu, rogerm

15:22:48 <deiu> s/Richard/rogerm
15:22:56 <Arnaud> q?

Arnaud Le Hors: q?

15:23:06 <SteveS> q+

Steve Speicher: q+

15:23:08 <stevebattle> q+

Steve Battle: q+

15:23:21 <Arnaud> ack steveb

Arnaud Le Hors: ack steveb

15:23:23 <oberger> the 2 Steves again ;)

Olivier Berger: the 2 Steves again ;)

15:23:30 <deiu> stevebattle: the issues look different (32 vs 38)

Steve Battle: the issues look different (32 vs 38)

15:23:46 <dret> it seems like ISSUE-38 is yet another question that should be addressed in ISSUE-37

Erik Wilde: it seems like ISSUE-38 is yet another question that should be addressed in ISSUE-37

15:24:19 <stevebattle> q+

Steve Battle: q+

15:24:30 <deiu> rogerm: I read ISSUE-38 as making resources discoverable, similar to ISSUE-32

Roger Menday: I read ISSUE-38 as making resources discoverable, similar to ISSUE-32

15:24:37 <Arnaud> ack steves

Arnaud Le Hors: ack steves

15:24:50 <dret> discoverability should be factored out of all issues, it needs to be designed uniformally

Erik Wilde: discoverability should be factored out of all issues, it needs to be designed uniformally

15:25:19 <dret> +1 to what cygri is saying

Erik Wilde: +1 to what cygri is saying

15:25:20 <AndyS> Move the discovery aspec of 38 to 32 but leave the filtering as 38

Andy Seaborne: Move the discovery aspec of 38 to 32 but leave the filtering as 38

15:25:23 <Zakim> -??P66

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P66

15:25:36 <Zakim> +??P66

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P66

15:25:42 <deiu> ... should there be separate issue on how to make resources discoverable? There is a concern about discoverability. I don't understand why do we need two issues at this point.

... should there be separate issue on how to make resources discoverable? There is a concern about discoverability. I don't understand why do we need two issues at this point.

15:25:47 <krp_> zakim, ??P66 is me

Kevin Page: zakim, ??P66 is me

15:25:49 <Zakim> +krp_; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +krp_; got it

15:26:24 <dret> maybe adjust ISSUE-38 so that it refers to ISSUE-32?

Erik Wilde: maybe adjust ISSUE-38 so that it refers to ISSUE-32?

15:26:29 <deiu> Arnaud: there are two issues: the filtering aspect and discovery

Arnaud Le Hors: there are two issues: the filtering aspect and discovery

15:26:42 <deiu> ... ISSUE-38 focuses on the filtering aspect

... ISSUE-38 focuses on the filtering aspect

15:26:46 <MacTed> once the feature is defined (#38), then it needs to be discoverable (#32)

Ted Thibodeau: once the feature is defined (#38), then it needs to be discoverable (#32)

15:26:52 <Arnaud> q?

Arnaud Le Hors: q?

15:27:02 <MacTed> two issues.  open #38.

Ted Thibodeau: two issues. open #38.

15:27:04 <Arnaud> ack steveb

Arnaud Le Hors: ack steveb

15:27:11 <bblfish> Issue-38?

Henry Story: ISSUE-38?

15:27:11 <trackbot> ISSUE-38 -- filtered representations and inlining -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-38 -- filtered representations and inlining -- raised

15:27:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/38

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/38

15:27:17 <deiu> ... by making something discoverable it doesn't mean it gets on the filtering system

... by making something discoverable it doesn't mean it gets on the filtering system

15:27:32 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: open ISSUE-38

RESOLVED: open ISSUE-38

15:27:41 <Arnaud> reopen ISSUE-38

Arnaud Le Hors: reopen ISSUE-38

15:27:41 <trackbot> ISSUE-38 filtered representations and inlining re-opened

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-38 filtered representations and inlining re-opened

15:28:09 <deiu> ... we could edit ISSUE-38 to point to ISSUE-32 for discoverability aspects

... we could edit ISSUE-38 to point to ISSUE-32 for discoverability aspects

15:28:13 <deiu> ISSUE-39?

ISSUE-39?

15:28:13 <trackbot> ISSUE-39 -- HTTP status codes used for creation -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-39 -- HTTP status codes used for creation -- raised

15:28:13 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/39

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/39

15:28:39 <deiu> Zakim, who is speaking?

Zakim, who is speaking?

15:28:50 <Zakim> deiu, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds

Zakim IRC Bot: deiu, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds

15:28:59 <stevebattle> Makes sense to me.

Steve Battle: Makes sense to me.

15:29:06 <Arnaud> q?

Arnaud Le Hors: q?

15:29:08 <oberger> 202 Accepted vs 201 Created

Olivier Berger: 202 Accepted vs 201 Created

15:29:14 <deiu> stevebattle: there's a motivating case for it

Steve Speicher: if there's a motivating case for it

15:29:23 <Zakim> -krp_

Zakim IRC Bot: -krp_

15:29:47 <SteveS> s/stevebattle: there's/SteveS: if there's/
15:30:09 <deiu> rogerm, RESTful representation of "turning a light bulb on", in slow motion; or the lifetime of a virtual machine

rogerm, RESTful representation of "turning a light bulb on", in slow motion; or the lifetime of a virtual machine

15:30:22 <Zakim> +??P66

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P66

15:30:29 <Zakim> -??P32

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P32

15:30:37 <stevebattle> Thanks Roger.

Steve Battle: Thanks Roger.

15:30:45 <bblfish> yes

Henry Story: yes

15:30:47 <oberger> let's open it yes

Olivier Berger: let's open it yes

15:30:48 <bblfish> sounds good

Henry Story: sounds good

15:30:51 <SteveS> no objections with opening

Steve Speicher: no objections with opening

15:30:55 <deiu> ... there is a need for cases where there is a process (multiple steps)

... there is a need for cases where there is a process (multiple steps)

15:30:57 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: open ISSUE-39

RESOLVED: open ISSUE-39

15:31:04 <Arnaud> reopen ISSUE-39

Arnaud Le Hors: reopen ISSUE-39

15:31:04 <trackbot> ISSUE-39 HTTP status codes used for creation re-opened

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-39 HTTP status codes used for creation re-opened

15:31:09 <dret> we're just "defining HTTP" here, there is no need for us to define these things. this is how resources can behave according to HTTP's uniform interface.

Erik Wilde: we're just "defining HTTP" here, there is no need for us to define these things. this is how resources can behave according to HTTP's uniform interface.

15:31:27 <krp_> zakim, ??P66 is me

Kevin Page: zakim, ??P66 is me

15:31:27 <Zakim> +krp_; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +krp_; got it

15:31:37 <deiu> Arnaud: moving on to issues pending review

Arnaud Le Hors: moving on to issues pending review

15:31:40 <oberger> Topic: Use Cases and Requirements

3. Use Cases and Requirements

15:31:50 <SteveS> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Use_Cases_And_Requirements

Steve Speicher: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Use_Cases_And_Requirements

15:32:27 <deiu> SteveS: ongoing work on changing the document to have a more readable narrative style

Steve Battle: ongoing work on changing the document to have a more readable narrative style

15:32:44 <SteveS> s/SteveS/stevebattle/
15:32:48 <deiu> ... today it is a lot more readable

... today it is a lot more readable

15:33:23 <Zakim> -krp_

Zakim IRC Bot: -krp_

15:33:29 <deiu> ... we have user stories that may not fit, so they need to be removed

... we have user stories that may not fit, so they need to be removed

15:33:52 <Zakim> +??P32

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P32

15:34:05 <deiu> Arnaud: there was a point where we had to freeze the document; are we reworking the structure?

Arnaud Le Hors: there was a point where we had to freeze the document; are we reworking the structure?

15:34:35 <SteveS> q+

Steve Speicher: q+

15:34:48 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

15:34:53 <Arnaud> ack steves

Arnaud Le Hors: ack steves

15:34:55 <deiu> ack SteveS

ack SteveS

15:35:02 <cygri> q-

Richard Cyganiak: q-

15:35:43 <deiu> SteveS: we talked about how much effort to put into making it into the final form; review the base sections to see what stays in; improving the current sections

Steve Speicher: we talked about how much effort to put into making it into the final form; review the base sections to see what stays in; improving the current sections

15:36:11 <deiu> ... this will be the first thing to review, the workgroup today

... this will be the first thing to review, the workgroup today

15:36:19 <bblfish> Hi, I notice that there is no use-case for making a binary resource

Henry Story: Hi, I notice that there is no use-case for making a binary resource

15:36:28 <bblfish> so what would that be?

Henry Story: so what would that be?

15:36:29 <bblfish> q+

Henry Story: q+

15:36:31 <deiu> Arnaud: should we invite the group to start reviewing the document at this point?

Arnaud Le Hors: should we invite the group to start reviewing the document at this point?

15:36:49 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

15:36:50 <Arnaud> ack bblfish

Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish

15:37:01 <deiu> stevebattle: starting next meeting we should invite people that have use cases

Steve Battle: starting next meeting we should invite people that have use cases

15:37:02 <bblfish> hi

Henry Story: hi

15:37:04 <SteveS> Isn't it at http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Use_Cases_And_Requirements#Sharing_binary_resources_and_metadata

Steve Speicher: Isn't it at http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Use_Cases_And_Requirements#Sharing_binary_resources_and_metadata

15:37:15 <bblfish> so there is a story for it

Henry Story: so there is a story for it

15:37:24 <Zakim> -??P32

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P32

15:37:25 <bblfish> but no use case. What should one do ?

Henry Story: but no use case. What should one do ?

15:37:32 <stevebattle> yes deiu

Steve Battle: yes deiu

15:37:34 <oberger> ack cygri

Olivier Berger: ack cygri

15:37:38 <Arnaud> ack cygri

Arnaud Le Hors: ack cygri

15:37:46 <bblfish> +1 for cygri that was my question

Henry Story: +1 for cygri that was my question

15:37:54 <Zakim> +??P32

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P32

15:38:03 <SteveS> q+

Steve Speicher: q+

15:38:04 <oberger> create issues...

Olivier Berger: create issues...

15:38:15 <SteveS> q-

Steve Speicher: q-

15:38:56 <bblfish> but if there is a user-story should there not be another use-case going with it?

Henry Story: but if there is a user-story should there not be another use-case going with it?

15:39:11 <ericP> q?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q?

15:39:42 <ericP> q+ to ask how i should edit the buglist use case

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to ask how i should edit the buglist use case

15:39:51 <bblfish> ok

Henry Story: ok

15:39:53 <Arnaud> ack ericP

Arnaud Le Hors: ack ericP

15:39:53 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to ask how i should edit the buglist use case

Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to ask how i should edit the buglist use case

15:40:23 <SteveS> q+

Steve Speicher: q+

15:40:29 <Arnaud> ack steves

Arnaud Le Hors: ack steves

15:40:33 <deiu> ericP: wonder where to polish the use case for bug tracker

Eric Prud'hommeaux: wonder where to polish the use case for bug tracker

15:40:42 <deiu> ... will be on the mailing list

... will be on the mailing list

15:41:02 <deiu> SteveS: what will be the process for use cases?

Steve Speicher: what will be the process for use cases?

15:41:07 <ericP> stevebattle, could you give me your favorite template use case from the doc for me to emulate?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: stevebattle, could you give me your favorite template use case from the doc for me to emulate?

15:41:24 <Zakim> -??P32

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P32

15:41:39 <deiu> Arnaud: we have two weeks during which people should review the use cases and raise issues if they don't get to an agreement

Arnaud Le Hors: we have two weeks during which people should review the use cases and raise issues if they don't get to an agreement

15:41:41 <Zakim> +??P41

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P41

15:41:58 <SteveS> To be clear, we are only proposing "Use Stories" as defined in the document….stevebattle can correct me if Use Cases are being asked for now

Steve Speicher: To be clear, we are only proposing "Use Stories" as defined in the document….stevebattle can correct me if Use Cases are being asked for now

15:42:05 <stevebattle> Example scenario (for EricP) http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Use_Cases_And_Requirements#Create_a_resource_within_a_container

Steve Battle: Example scenario (for EricP) http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Use_Cases_And_Requirements#Create_a_resource_within_a_container

15:42:19 <Arnaud> q?

Arnaud Le Hors: q?

15:42:42 <oberger> user stories

Olivier Berger: user stories

15:42:44 <deiu> Arnaud: by next week, people should have a look at their own use cases

Arnaud Le Hors: by next week, people should have a look at their own use cases

15:42:52 <stevebattle> To recap: user-story authors should review their user-stories

Steve Battle: To recap: user-story authors should review their user-stories

15:43:17 <deiu> ... we don't have a plan to see how we can progress on this

... we don't have a plan to see how we can progress on this

15:44:07 <deiu> stevebattle: at the moment we adding examples to the user stories, and we're hoping to be done by next week

Steve Battle: at the moment we adding examples to the user stories, and we're hoping to be done by next week

15:44:12 <stevebattle> yes

Steve Battle: yes

15:44:22 <deiu> Arnaud: people should add examples to the user stories

Arnaud Le Hors: people should add examples to the user stories

15:44:31 <oberger> Arnaud, aha ;)

Olivier Berger: Arnaud, aha ;)

15:44:40 <stevebattle> we're basing example scenarios on the user-stories.

Steve Battle: we're basing example scenarios on the user-stories.

15:45:07 <stevebattle> We're not adding examples to the user-stories.

Steve Battle: We're not adding examples to the user-stories.

15:45:10 <oberger> which year ? ;)

Olivier Berger: which year ? ;)

15:45:24 <Zakim> -??P41

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P41

15:45:27 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

15:45:27 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted

15:45:30 <stevebattle> The spec had a head-start :)

Steve Battle: The spec had a head-start :)

15:45:32 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:45:32 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

15:45:36 <MacTed> +1 stevebattle

Ted Thibodeau: +1 stevebattle

15:45:42 <Zakim> +??P81

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P81

15:45:48 <oberger> topic: LDP Specification

4. LDP Specification

15:46:44 <SteveS> ISSUE-25

Steve Speicher: ISSUE-25

15:46:55 <deiu> ISSUE-25?

ISSUE-25?

15:46:55 <trackbot> ISSUE-25 -- Weak aggregation and strong composition in containers -- closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-25 -- Weak aggregation and strong composition in containers -- closed

15:46:55 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/25

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/25

<deiu> Steves: sent email to the list on what changes will be made to the spec with regard to issue-25

Steve Speicher: sent email to the list on what changes will be made to the spec with regard to ISSUE-25

<deiu> ... will now proceed to updating the spec

... will now proceed to updating the spec

15:47:30 <stevebattle> Do we have a process for closing issues?

Steve Battle: Do we have a process for closing issues?

15:47:30 <deiu> Arnaud: we need to start closing issues

Arnaud Le Hors: we need to start closing issues

15:47:30 <oberger> topic: Open Issues

5. Open Issues

15:47:35 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

15:47:35 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted

15:47:59 <deiu> MacTed: member submission was not focused on use cases

Ted Thibodeau: member submission was not focused on use cases

15:48:31 <stevebattle> q+

Steve Battle: q+

15:48:41 <Arnaud> ack steveb

Arnaud Le Hors: ack steveb

15:48:42 <deiu> ... the process we're following here is bound to create a lot of issues

... the process we're following here is bound to create a lot of issues

15:48:56 <deiu> stevebattle: do we have a process for closing issues? (see f2f style)

Steve Battle: do we have a process for closing issues? (see f2f style)

15:48:57 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

15:49:02 <SteveS> q+

Steve Speicher: q+

15:49:09 <deiu> ... it would be good to have a process

... it would be good to have a process

15:49:24 <Zakim> -??P81

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P81

15:49:31 <deiu> Arnaud: ideally the process is to use this teleconf, going through the issues one by one

Arnaud Le Hors: ideally the process is to use this teleconf, going through the issues one by one

15:49:33 <oberger> when/if we stop filling new ones, the call will deal with closing them hopefully

Olivier Berger: when/if we stop filling new ones, the call will deal with closing them hopefully

15:49:45 <Zakim> +??P41

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P41

15:49:46 <Zakim> -ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP

15:49:53 <deiu> ... it's not easy to close issues on the mailing list

... it's not easy to close issues on the mailing list

15:50:10 <cygri> q?

Richard Cyganiak: q?

15:50:13 <deiu> ... if we get close to closing the issues on the mailing list, we can officially close them during calls

... if we get close to closing the issues on the mailing list, we can officially close them during calls

15:50:18 <Arnaud> ack cygri

Arnaud Le Hors: ack cygri

15:50:50 <deiu> cygri: from my experience, I find this can be helpful for closing issues to have properly formulated proposal sent by email before calls

Richard Cyganiak: from my experience, I find this can be helpful for closing issues to have properly formulated proposal sent by email before calls

15:50:59 <bblfish> +1

Henry Story: +1

15:51:04 <deiu> ... they become the baseline for discussions during the calls

... they become the baseline for discussions during the calls

15:51:12 <AshokMalhotra> +1 to wording change proposals for issues

Ashok Malhotra: +1 to wording change proposals for issues

15:51:19 <Arnaud> ack steves

Arnaud Le Hors: ack steves

15:52:02 <deiu> SteveS: we can plan the agenda to avoid pushing this process towards the end of the call

Steve Speicher: we can plan the agenda to avoid pushing this process towards the end of the call

15:52:47 <deiu> Arnaud: when we started, we decided to allow the people who opened the issues to decide how they want to close them

Arnaud Le Hors: when we started, we decided to allow the people who opened the issues to decide how they want to close them

15:52:49 <bblfish> perhaps also in e-mail people who send a mail that contains a soluton should put it in the header

Henry Story: perhaps also in e-mail people who send a mail that contains a soluton should put it in the header

15:52:52 <stevebattle> q+

Steve Battle: q+

15:53:06 <deiu> ... when people care about an issue, they should make concrete proposals and highlight them on the mailing list

... when people care about an issue, they should make concrete proposals and highlight them on the mailing list

15:53:21 <AndyS> Not sure a new issue can always have a proposed resolution at this stage -- e..g the overall design issue.

Andy Seaborne: Not sure a new issue can always have a proposed resolution at this stage -- e..g the overall design issue.

15:53:24 <Zakim> -??P41

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P41

15:53:24 <deiu> ... if it's a small issue, we can leave it open for discussion

... if it's a small issue, we can leave it open for discussion

15:53:29 <Arnaud> ack stevebattle

Arnaud Le Hors: ack stevebattle

15:53:45 <Zakim> +??P41

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P41

15:53:51 <deiu> stevebattle: I agree with cygri; the resolution text will be different from the proposal text

Steve Battle: I agree with cygri; the resolution text will be different from the proposal text

15:53:54 <AndyS> Only as we get a more complete set of docs does the requirement of resolution work.

Andy Seaborne: Only as we get a more complete set of docs does the requirement of resolution work.

15:53:58 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

15:54:11 <Arnaud> ack cygri

Arnaud Le Hors: ack cygri

15:54:47 <deiu> cygri: I want to agree with that; you will notice that people care about it and they will eventually write up a concrete proposal for closing the issue

Richard Cyganiak: I want to agree with that; you will notice that people care about it and they will eventually write up a concrete proposal for closing the issue

15:55:00 <deiu> ... if I don't propose a solution, someone else will do it

... if I don't propose a solution, someone else will do it

15:55:38 <oberger> 5 mins left :-/

Olivier Berger: 5 mins left :-/

15:55:45 <deiu> Arnaud: is there an issue someone wants to discuss at this point?

Arnaud Le Hors: is there an issue someone wants to discuss at this point?

15:56:01 <bblfish> I wanted to know if the RDF people agreed with the notion that a form is like a query

Henry Story: I wanted to know if the RDF people agreed with the notion that a form is like a query

15:56:03 <AndyS> actions for the overall design text?

Andy Seaborne: actions for the overall design text?

15:56:16 <stevebattle> I'm not hearing anything on the phone - ah I've been disconnected.

Steve Battle: I'm not hearing anything on the phone - ah I've been disconnected.

15:56:16 <bblfish> and how one can get ahead with doing forms in rdf

Henry Story: and how one can get ahead with doing forms in rdf

15:56:37 <cygri> ISSUE-37?

Richard Cyganiak: ISSUE-37?

15:56:37 <trackbot> ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open

15:56:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37

15:56:44 <deiu> AndyS: there was an issue about the overall design text

Andy Seaborne: there was an issue about the overall design text

15:57:07 <bblfish> AndyS: how does one make a model?

Andy Seaborne: how does one make a model? [ Scribe Assist by Henry Story ]

15:57:14 <dret> proposal is to use email 127 as starting point, and take it from there.

Erik Wilde: proposal is to use email 127 as starting point, and take it from there.

15:57:17 <bblfish> q+

Henry Story: q+

15:57:23 <bblfish> ow does one make a model?

Henry Story: ow does one make a model?

15:57:25 <Zakim> -??P41

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P41

15:57:29 <Arnaud> ack bblfish

Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish

15:57:37 <stevebattle> it was me

Steve Battle: it was me

15:57:39 <bblfish> how does one make a model?

Henry Story: how does one make a model?

15:57:56 <deiu> bblfish, just talk, I'll try to scribe

bblfish, just talk, I'll try to scribe

15:58:12 <AndyS> dret -- record an action?

Andy Seaborne: dret -- record an action?

15:58:19 <deiu> bblfish: is there a notion about how to make an interaction model?

Henry Story: is there a notion about how to make an interaction model?

15:58:20 <JohnArwe> we use interaction diagrams

John Arwe: we use interaction diagrams

15:58:22 <Zakim> +??P54

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P54

15:58:52 <deiu> AndyS: there is no formal language for it, it's about agreement

Andy Seaborne: there is no formal language for it, it's about agreement

15:59:32 <deiu> ... I would volunteer to create that section of the spec; my expectation is to make it short (1-2 pages), add statements about how clients are supposed to interact with them

... I would volunteer to create that section of the spec; my expectation is to make it short (1-2 pages), add statements about how clients are supposed to interact with them

15:59:34 <bblfish> that sounds nearly like the spec.

Henry Story: that sounds nearly like the spec.

15:59:44 <bblfish> q+

Henry Story: q+

15:59:54 <Arnaud> ack bblfish

Arnaud Le Hors: ack bblfish

16:00:11 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ashok_Malhotra

16:00:11 <bblfish> should I open an issue?

Henry Story: should I open an issue?

16:00:14 <deiu> bblfish: was there anything mentioned about RDF and forms?

Henry Story: was there anything mentioned about RDF and forms?

16:00:37 <deiu> Arnaud: if you think that's a valid issue, then you may create one

Arnaud Le Hors: if you think that's a valid issue, then you may create one

16:00:53 <deiu> ... it has to be related to the spec, and to identify what the real problem is

... it has to be related to the spec, and to identify what the real problem is

16:01:08 <deiu> bblfish: it's about getting "views" of a collection: page 1, 2, etc.

Henry Story: it's about getting "views" of a collection: page 1, 2, etc.

16:01:25 <Zakim> -??P54

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P54

16:02:07 <deiu> Arnaud: people need to make concrete proposals on the mailing list first, to make a better use of teleconf time

Arnaud Le Hors: people need to make concrete proposals on the mailing list first, to make a better use of teleconf time

16:02:14 <cygri> bblfish, i don't think there's an open issue for RDF forms. there's an issue for pagination.

Richard Cyganiak: bblfish, i don't think there's an open issue for RDF forms. there's an issue for pagination.

16:02:24 <oberger> giving thanks to you

Olivier Berger: giving thanks to you

16:02:25 <SteveS> suggest we actually assign owners to each issue, I'll grab some that I'm interested

Steve Speicher: suggest we actually assign owners to each issue, I'll grab some that I'm interested

16:02:26 <dret> thanks, arnaud!

Erik Wilde: thanks, arnaud!

16:02:28 <stevebattle> bye

Steve Battle: bye

16:02:31 <bblfish> yes, I was thinking of using forms for pagination cygri

Henry Story: yes, I was thinking of using forms for pagination cygri

16:02:33 <Zakim> -rogerm

Zakim IRC Bot: -rogerm

16:02:34 <ghard> Bye

Yrjana Rankka: Bye

16:02:34 <Zakim> -SteveS

Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveS

16:02:34 <Zakim> -MHausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: -MHausenblas

16:02:36 <Zakim> -Yves

Zakim IRC Bot: -Yves

16:02:36 <Zakim> -oberger

Zakim IRC Bot: -oberger

16:02:36 <rgarcia> bye

Raúl García Castro: bye

16:02:37 <deiu> Arnaud: MEETING ADJOURNED

Arnaud Le Hors: MEETING ADJOURNED

16:02:38 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

16:02:38 <antonis> bye

Antonis Loizou: bye

16:02:39 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

16:02:40 <Zakim> -JohnArwe

Zakim IRC Bot: -JohnArwe

16:02:42 <Zakim> -Kalpa

Zakim IRC Bot: -Kalpa

16:02:42 <Zakim> -bblfish

Zakim IRC Bot: -bblfish

16:02:42 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

16:02:43 <Zakim> -raul

Zakim IRC Bot: -raul

16:02:44 <Zakim> -antonis

Zakim IRC Bot: -antonis

16:02:44 <Zakim> -dret

Zakim IRC Bot: -dret

16:02:49 <Zakim> -ghard

Zakim IRC Bot: -ghard

16:03:01 <deiu> RRSAgent, draft minutes

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:03:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/19-ldp-minutes.html deiu

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/19-ldp-minutes.html deiu

16:03:11 <deiu> RRSAgent, make minutes public

RRSAgent, make minutes public

16:03:11 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', deiu.  Try /msg RRSAgent help

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', deiu. Try /msg RRSAgent help

16:03:21 <deiu> RRSAgent, make log public

RRSAgent, make log public

16:03:21 <bblfish> I proposed using SPARQL for forms

Henry Story: I proposed using SPARQL for forms

16:03:36 <Zakim> -deiu

Zakim IRC Bot: -deiu

16:03:51 <bblfish> but that was just a high level way of doing things

Henry Story: but that was just a high level way of doing things

16:04:22 <dret> unfortunately, there's no concept of "issue ownership" in our tracker, afaict. that would be useful and pretty much all trackers have it, just not ours...

Erik Wilde: unfortunately, there's no concept of "issue ownership" in our tracker, afaict. that would be useful and pretty much all trackers have it, just not ours...

16:04:46 <deiu> bblfish, from my perspective (implementing LDP), I see all collections as SPARQL endpoints

bblfish, from my perspective (implementing LDP), I see all collections as SPARQL endpoints

16:05:25 <deiu> I wonder if that makes any sense

I wonder if that makes any sense

16:05:40 <dret> the implementation may use a SPARQL, but the interactions are limited to whatever the service surface makes available as interactions.

Erik Wilde: the implementation may use a SPARQL, but the interactions are limited to whatever the service surface makes available as interactions.

16:06:37 <deiu> it doesn't have to be a real (public) endpoint, though it can pass requests to the local (main) endpoint

it doesn't have to be a real (public) endpoint, though it can pass requests to the local (main) endpoint

16:06:51 <dret> if we say an LDP service *is a SPARQL endpoint*, then we're just doing GSP, aren't we?

Erik Wilde: if we say an LDP service *is a SPARQL endpoint*, then we're just doing GSP, aren't we?

16:07:03 <deiu> I'm not saying that :-)

I'm not saying that :-)

16:07:08 <dret> good ;-)

Erik Wilde: good ;-)

16:07:21 <deiu> I'm saying that from an implementation p.o.v. it makes sense

I'm saying that from an implementation p.o.v. it makes sense

16:07:21 <Zakim> -nmihindu

Zakim IRC Bot: -nmihindu

16:07:27 <AndyS> Another (not the only) view is the whole server is one SPARQL endpoint.  Both can be made to work.

Andy Seaborne: Another (not the only) view is the whole server is one SPARQL endpoint. Both can be made to work.

16:08:46 <bblfish> deiu:  the forms are not for the server, but for the client

Andrei Sambra: the forms are not for the server, but for the client [ Scribe Assist by Henry Story ]

16:09:00 <bblfish> they are ways for the server to specify a way for the client to answer questions

Henry Story: they are ways for the server to specify a way for the client to answer questions

16:09:32 <dret> we're doijng what pretty much every web-facing service on earth does: we're accepting requests where, let's say, URI parameters represent the specific way in which clients ask for service (give me page 42 and 42 entries per page: ...?pagesize=42&page=42), and the the implementation maps this service surface to whatever it uses as its implementation, retrieves the required data from its backend, and then generates whatever representation is required by the s[CUT]

Erik Wilde: we're doijng what pretty much every web-facing service on earth does: we're accepting requests where, let's say, URI parameters represent the specific way in which clients ask for service (give me page 42 and 42 entries per page: ...?pagesize=42&page=42), and the the implementation maps this service surface to whatever it uses as its implementation, retrieves the required data from its backend, and then generates whatever representation is required by the s[CUT]

16:09:34 <SteveS> dret, right I'd say that SPARQL is not required but one a possible implementation of LDP

Steve Speicher: dret, right I'd say that SPARQL is not required but one a possible implementation of LDP

16:10:22 <dret> no suprises here at all, standard web engineering, just against a RDF back-end, and with an RDF service surface (which is the tricky part, because of the links).

Erik Wilde: no suprises here at all, standard web engineering, just against a RDF back-end, and with an RDF service surface (which is the tricky part, because of the links).

16:11:32 <dret> +1 to SteveS

Erik Wilde: +1 to SteveS

16:12:21 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, SteveBattle, in SW_LDP()10:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, SteveBattle, in SW_LDP()10:00AM

16:12:23 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended

16:12:23 <Zakim> Attendees were SteveBattle, MacTed, SteveS, Arnaud, deiu, JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra, dret, ericP, oberger, Yves, raul, MHausenblas, nmihindu, cygri, ghard, +44.208.573.aabb, krp,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were SteveBattle, MacTed, SteveS, Arnaud, deiu, JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra, dret, ericP, oberger, Yves, raul, MHausenblas, nmihindu, cygri, ghard, +44.208.573.aabb, krp,

16:12:23 <Zakim> ... antonis, bblfish, AndyS, rogerm, Kalpa, krp_

Zakim IRC Bot: ... antonis, bblfish, AndyS, rogerm, Kalpa, krp_



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This revision (#3) generated 2012-11-26 04:22:13 UTC by 'alehors', comments: None