See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 15 November 2012
char: jimAllan, kellyFord
open item 1
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012OctDec/0035.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012OctDec/0035.html
<scribe> scribe: jallan
mh; explains proposal
2.8.1 Customize display of controls representing user interface commands,
functions, and extensions: The user can customize which user agent
commands, functions, and extensions are displayed within the user agent's
user interface as follows: (AA)
(a) Show: The user can choose to display any controls, which can include
user installed extensions, available within the user agent user interface.
It is acceptable to limit the total number of controls that are displayed
onscreen.
(b) Simplify: The user can simplify the default user interface by choosing
to display only commands essential for basic operation (e.g. by hiding
some control).
(c) Reposition: The user can choose to reposition individual controls
within containers (e.g. Toolbars or tool palettes), as well as reposition
the containers themselves to facilitate physical access (e.g. To minimize
hand travel on touch screens, or to facilitate preferred hand access on
handheld mobile devices).
(d) Assign Activation Keystrokes or Gestures: The user can choose to view,
assign or change default keystrokes or gestures used to activate controls.
(e) Reset: The user has the option to reset the containers and controls
available to their original configuration.
kp: good way to do it
mh: Kim you mentioned handedness on mobile devices, but said it more elegantly
ja: what about 2.8.2?
mh: became part of 2.8.1 (item e)
kp: unconference...humana trying
for AAA, but some things they can't do, so are doing AAA
-xyz
... 2.8.1 facilitates the compliance
gl: this doesn't answer what
happens in status bars, palettes
... a container at the bottom of a window that may have
actionalble controls.
... where does it say that the status bar should not be
configurable.
... I like the approach.
kp: seems this is a far as we can go.
gl: in FF I can customize all the
controls in toolbars, show hide toolbars. but can't do anything
about the menu bar.
... is that a problem
kp: did mozilla do this on purpose or it was too hard
mh: all new browsers have done
away with the menu bar, have an icon for options.
... do we need to configure menus and status bar.
ja: status bars have fluid information. should the be positionable? some are actionable. can show/hide in some browsers.
kp: wary of such detail, in two years things will look different
<Greg> We should modify D to make it clear this applies to direct activation shortcuts, rather than requiring the user be able to change whether space or enter activates the control with the keyboard focus.
<Greg> So change "default keystrokes or gestures used to activate controls" to use the defined phrase "direct activation commands" ?
<mhakkinen> 2.8.1 (d) Assign Activation Keystrokes or Gestures: The user can choose to view, assign or change default keystrokes or gestures used to [directly activate]* controls.
<mhakkinen> * link to "direct activation" in glossary.
ja: what should we do about status bars - mostly informational and fluid. though some are actionable.
mh: use an example about a user adding a control to the status bar.
gl: fine, if we want to enforce
this on tool/menu/status bars
... worried that this does not apply to things we don't expect
to be repositionable
... in FF, no script has a close button.
ja: don't expect minus, box, x controls to be movable
gl: explicitly exclude items that conform to OS conventions
mh: a blanket or 'can' exempt
s/exdlued/exclude
<Greg> We may want to clarify that (a) does not prohibit the UA from hiding controls when they are not applicable. For example, in Excel you may have Pivot Table controls appear only when the focus is in a pivot table.
mh: in the wild west of browsers,
they are breaking conventions everywhere. platform conventions
are at the whim of the browser developer
... perhaps adding a note
<mhakkinen> 2.8.1 Customize display of controls representing user interface commands, functions, and extensions: The user can customize which user agent commands, functions, and extensions are displayed within the user agent's user interface as follows: (AA) (a) Show: The user can choose to display any controls, which can include user installed extensions, available within the user agent user interface. It is acceptable to limit the total number of controls t[CUT]
<mhakkinen> 2.8.1 Customize display of controls representing user interface commands, functions, and extensions: The user can customize which user agent commands, functions, and extensions are displayed within the user agent's user interface as follows: (AA)
<mhakkinen> (a) Show: The user can choose to display any controls, which can include user installed extensions, available within the user agent user interface. It is acceptable to limit the total number of controls that are displayed onscreen.
<mhakkinen> (b) Simplify: The user can simplify the default user interface by choosing to display only commands essential for basic operation (e.g. by hiding some controls).
<mhakkinen> (c) Reposition: The user can choose to reposition individual controls within containers (e.g. Toolbars or tool palettes), as well as reposition the containers themselves to facilitate physical access (e.g. To minimize hand travel on touch screens, or to facilitate preferred hand access on handheld mobile devices).
<mhakkinen> (d) Assign Activation Keystrokes or Gestures: The user can choose to view, assign or change default keystrokes or gestures used to [directly activate]* controls.
<mhakkinen> (e) Reset: The user has the option to reset the containers and controls available to their original configuration.
<mhakkinen> * link to "direct activation" in glossary.
gl: does show imply not
shot
... then is b) redundant
<Greg> If Show implies Not Show, isn't Simplify redundant?
ja: controls is a single control or a container of controls
kp: simplify is not redundant.
start with complex toolbar, and hides some but not all
controls
... helps get the point across, gets developers thinking the
right way.
gl: seems your are adding an intent statement.
kp: you need to be able to simplify, but not tell them how.
gl: need example that meets b) but not a)
kp: a complex bar may be too busy for a user to clean up, a 1 button 'simplify' command would help them
gl: don't think we can require
that,
... chrome, what would they have to do to comply with b)
kp: they would not have to have a
button to simplify, that's just one way to do it.
... it could be an extension
gl: trying to get a concrete example. ability to individually configure the controls.
in microsoft, very configurable. there is no easy way to have a simple interface, except by removing LOTS of controls.
kp: not having simplify is a barrier to some users, it goes beyond removing individual controls
gl: seems really subjective. when is it required (how many controls) that the UA must have a simplify command.
<Greg> I'm uncomfortable with it. For one it's very subjective, if you require a Simplify command only when they default configuration is "not simple enough".
kp: important for RSI, cognitive
issues, and mobile.
... agree that it is a bit subjective taking the testability
view
<Greg> But I'll go with whatever the group decides.
ja: should we keep b) in the SC
<Greg> My preference would be to remove B, clarify A is about show/hide, and recommend but not require (perhaps as a AAA or in the Intent) a simple command to select a configuration with simplified UI.
mh: b should stay in
sh: b in
kp: b in
<Greg> If B is staying in, I'd recommend people create examples of what would and would not meet the requirement.
we need more examples
Kim will write examples.
<scribe> ACTION: jeanne to add 2.8.1 above to the document, remove 2.8.2. New IER forth coming [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/15-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-776 - Add 2.8.1 above to the document, remove 2.8.2. New IER forth coming [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-11-22].
open item 2
topic 2.3.2
mh: level is ok.
<scribe> ACTION: jeanne add eg to (Alt+R to reply to a web email) in 2.3.2 so it reads (e.g. Alt+R to reply to a web email). [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/15-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-777 - Add eg to (Alt+R to reply to a web email) in 2.3.2 so it reads (e.g. Alt+R to reply to a web email). [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-11-22].
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20121108/#gl-configure-controls
mh: should be an A
gl: move to A
kp: should be A
<scribe> ACTION: jeanne to change 2.3.3 to A [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/11/15-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-778 - Change 2.3.3 to A [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-11-22].
all ok with AA
mh: question about gesture control
kp: many supports for gesture insertion in UI
kim will write examples for 2.3.4 about gesture insertion
<Greg> If the user can customize which keystroke and mouse button are associated with the Back command. Do both have to be displayed on or with the button, at least in some mode? Is there a standard for how to represent a mouse button? Or Ctrl+Left Click?
<Greg> ja: His mouse has six buttons, customizable in the Mouse control panel.
no objections
rragent, make minutes
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137 of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/statis/status/ FAILED: s/exdlued/exclude/ Succeeded: s/exclued/exclude/ Succeeded: s/developter/developer/ Succeeded: s/control)/controls)/ Found Scribe: jallan Inferring ScribeNick: JAllan Default Present: Greg_Lowney, Jim_Allan, Kim_Patch, Markku, sharper Present: Greg_Lowney Jim_Allan Kim_Patch Markku sharper Regrets: Jan Jeanne Kelly_(late) Found Date: 15 Nov 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/11/15-ua-minutes.html People with action items: add eg jeanne[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]