IRC log of mlw-lt on 2012-08-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:44:24 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-irc
13:44:30 [fsasaki]
meeting: MLW-LT WG
13:44:34 [fsasaki]
chair: felix
13:44:41 [fsasaki]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Aug/0319.html
13:44:48 [fsasaki]
regrets: Jörg
13:45:40 [Zakim]
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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
13:54:40 [Arle]
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13:54:51 [fsasaki]
present: arle, felix
13:54:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
13:57:18 [fsasaki]
present+ yves
13:57:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
13:58:31 [Yves_]
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present+ ankit
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14:00:12 [fsasaki]
present+ jirka
14:00:19 [fsasaki]
present+ des
14:00:41 [fsasaki]
present+ guiseppe, michael
14:00:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
14:01:09 [fsasaki]
present+ tadej
14:01:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
14:01:32 [leroy]
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present+ pablo
14:01:48 [fsasaki]
present+ leroy
14:01:50 [tadej]
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14:01:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
14:02:13 [fsasaki]
present+ dave
14:02:22 [fsasaki]
present+ milan
14:02:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
14:02:53 [gderiard]
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14:03:04 [fsasaki]
checking attendance
14:03:05 [Michael]
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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
14:03:09 [daveL]
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14:03:43 [Jirka]
you missed Mr. Echo
14:04:07 [fsasaki]
present+ phil
14:06:58 [fsasaki]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Aug/0319.html
14:07:40 [fsasaki]
scribe: daveL
14:07:41 [daveL]
scribe daveL
14:07:51 [fsasaki]
topic: ACTIONS
14:08:05 [fsasaki]
action-164?
14:08:05 [trackbot]
ACTION-164 -- Maxime Lefrançois to create an RDF ontology for ITS, and make sure that we update the ITS XSD to accomodate the RDF output created via ACTION-147 -- due 2012-08-16 -- OPEN
14:08:05 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/164
14:08:10 [leroy]
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14:09:25 [daveL]
tadej; followed this but can't dedicate time
14:10:15 [daveL]
action: felix to liaise with maximie to complete this when time permits
14:10:15 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-205 - Liaise with maximie to complete this when time permits [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-09-06].
14:10:29 [fsasaki]
action-179?
14:10:29 [trackbot]
ACTION-179 -- David Lewis to work with Olaf-Michael to help draft blurb for international organizations. -- due 2012-08-16 -- OPEN
14:10:29 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/179
14:11:05 [fsasaki]
dave: talked about this with olaf, need to follow up
14:11:48 [fsasaki]
.. ongoing
14:11:55 [fsasaki]
action-196?
14:11:55 [trackbot]
ACTION-196 -- Felix Sasaki to make inheritance - overriding etc. clearer in the spec -- due 2012-08-20 -- CLOSED
14:11:55 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/196
14:12:01 [fsasaki]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Aug/0311.html
14:12:32 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#datacategories-defaults-etc
14:14:48 [daveL]
felix: inheritence and overriding colum are mutually redundant and make the function of inhertance clearer
14:14:58 [daveL]
... does everyone agree?
14:15:11 [daveL]
Yves; in bread agreement
14:15:34 [fsasaki]
dave: old text didn't really say what overriding did
14:15:53 [fsasaki]
.. there is several aspects like "overriding the data values of the ITS category"
14:16:00 [fsasaki]
.. that might make it clearer
14:16:14 [fsasaki]
.. so there wasn't a definition what is overriden
14:16:34 [fsasaki]
.. the data values that apply to the nodes get overriden
14:16:48 [daveL]
scribe; daveL
14:16:56 [fsasaki]
topic: PRAGUE + TPAC
14:16:56 [daveL]
scribe: daveL
14:17:54 [daveL]
felix: hope eveyone can come to both, though prague is most important
14:18:11 [daveL]
... but TPAC also give opportunity to meet other W3C folk
14:18:33 [daveL]
Des; will be showing some implementations
14:19:41 [daveL]
felis; people are implementing and we need slot in agenda for this
14:20:32 [fsasaki]
s/felis/felix/
14:20:45 [Yves_]
i should have some data categories working and useable too (XLIFF 1.2 and 2.0 output for example)
14:20:48 [daveL]
daveL: will have some integration between CMS-LION and mose MT and perhaps XLIGG
14:21:23 [daveL]
felix: ask eveyone to add any plans for demonstrations to prague agenda page
14:21:44 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/PragueSep2012#Objectives
14:21:52 [fsasaki]
"Your implementations and use cases here: ..."
14:22:12 [daveL]
action: felix to follow up on demo commitments at prague under objectives on pargue agenda page
14:22:13 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-206 - Follow up on demo commitments at prague under objectives on pargue agenda page [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-09-06].
14:22:39 [daveL]
felix: you can add a point to page showing more details also.
14:23:12 [fsasaki]
dave: people can be free to set up a page for "their" implementation to put more details in
14:23:42 [fsasaki]
felix: sure
14:23:55 [fsasaki]
topic: ISSUE-22
14:24:09 [daveL]
felix; ISSUE 22 provenance, need update
14:24:11 [Ankit]
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14:24:49 [fsasaki]
dave: working on it. For actual text need to add pointers to translation agent
14:25:00 [fsasaki]
.. where was the issue related to mtScore
14:25:08 [fsasaki]
.. standoff just needed the pointer version added
14:25:45 [fsasaki]
.. felix had sent a comment about "standoff prov. MUST point to a provenance record"
14:25:54 [fsasaki]
.. how would you test conformance on that
14:26:14 [fsasaki]
.. is it sufficient to have a URL and get a URL back
14:26:35 [fsasaki]
felix: how would validation work?
14:26:46 [fsasaki]
dave: several options for that in provenance
14:27:03 [fsasaki]
.. basically a GET operation and you get something back in a certain format
14:27:21 [fsasaki]
.. if you have a pointer to one of the records
14:27:33 [fsasaki]
.. they need to follow a link and do an HTTP get
14:27:38 [fsasaki]
.. to retrieve it
14:27:59 [fsasaki]
.. but do they have to parse the record
14:29:45 [daveL]
felix: you can have ITS data category conformance by access the URL, but there is more to showcasing functionality
14:30:45 [daveL]
... so test suite is artificial, but we want to have more live tests
14:31:27 [daveL]
... so we want the functional testing to really show the usefulness
14:33:48 [daveL]
felix: test can cover both, we can do both at the same time
14:36:25 [daveL]
felix: so current test suite isn't useful for real-life implementations
14:37:47 [Ankit]
will having a MT system translate ITS metadata (as in testsuite) tagged text be an example of functional testing?
14:38:12 [dF]
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14:38:37 [daveL]
dave: suggest implementers provide thier funcitonal test when demoing in prague
14:39:06 [daveL]
yves; can provide some examples in prague
14:39:26 [daveL]
flix; to get some feedback on test suite input and output from HTML WG
14:39:55 [daveL]
action: felix to get some feedback on test suite input and output from HTML WG
14:39:55 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-207 - Get some feedback on test suite input and output from HTML WG [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-09-06].
14:40:19 [fsasaki]
present+ david
14:40:50 [fsasaki]
topic: ISSUE-34 quality data category
14:40:58 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#lqissue
14:41:07 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#lqprecis
14:41:22 [daveL]
felix: yves has update specification as above
14:42:06 [daveL]
Des: did quality score issue get resolved
14:42:32 [daveL]
... there were 4 options mentioned
14:43:00 [fsasaki]
see mail here http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Aug/0267.html
14:43:23 [daveL]
yves: issue of whether it is a range or a vote need to be resolved, and an attribute added if both to be supported
14:44:21 [daveL]
Des: can live without voting if it overcomplicate things
14:44:52 [daveL]
Yves: lets check if other partners such as microsoft have an interest
14:45:14 [daveL]
Des: it is a valid use case
14:45:39 [daveL]
Yves: yes, but it should be an option in that data category rather than a new data category
14:45:49 [daveL]
Des: agrees
14:46:23 [daveL]
Yves; volunteer to add a proposal so we can explore the issues
14:46:46 [daveL]
action: yves to add an option to quality precis draft supporting voting ranges
14:46:46 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-208 - Add an option to quality precis draft supporting voting ranges [on Yves Savourel - due 2012-09-06].
14:47:44 [fsasaki]
topic: readibility of the spec
14:47:54 [fsasaki]
.. currrently trying to re-draft parts of section 1
14:48:15 [fsasaki]
.. disambiguation is very hard to read
14:48:25 [fsasaki]
.. using a lot of computational linguistic terminology
14:48:45 [fsasaki]
.. propose not to change a lot, but the prose
14:48:56 [fsasaki]
tadej: posted a new version a while ago, aware of this problem
14:49:11 [fsasaki]
.. whole data category talks about computational linguistic domain
14:50:14 [dF]
perhaps tadej should mute
14:51:01 [daveL]
felix: want to have some people to review some data category text with the eye of someone form a different domain
14:51:36 [daveL]
action: tadej to review readability and make proposals to improve readability to non-localisation people
14:51:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-209 - Review readability and make proposals to improve readability to non-localisation people [on Tadej Štajner - due 2012-09-06].
14:52:02 [daveL]
action: daveL to review diambiguation from the point of view of readability
14:52:02 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-210 - Review diambiguation from the point of view of readability [on David Lewis - due 2012-09-06].
14:52:11 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#lqprecis
14:52:34 [daveL]
action: Michael to review quality precis for readability from non-localisation viewpoint
14:52:34 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-211 - Review quality precis for readability from non-localisation viewpoint [on Michael Kruppa - due 2012-09-06].
14:53:47 [daveL]
felix; also ask Dave, David and moritz to do a general review of the draft
14:54:51 [fsasaki]
dave: some data catgories have examples that do something which is not explained. You need to explain: here is an example how an element is selected, given the values etc.
14:54:55 [fsasaki]
.. some of Yves ones are quite good
14:55:06 [fsasaki]
.. I'd encourage everybody to look into that
14:55:35 [fsasaki]
topic: ISSUE-36 special requirements
14:56:44 [daveL]
felix: summarised changes to special requirements and yves to include this
14:57:03 [daveL]
action; yves to add allowed characters and stroage size to specification
14:57:15 [dF]
Happy with "forbidden characters" and "storage size" solutions as per e-mail discussion..
14:57:24 [daveL]
action: Yves_ to add allowed characters and stroage size to specification
14:57:24 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Yves_
14:57:47 [fsasaki]
topic: ISSUE-41 mtConfidence
14:58:43 [daveL]
dF: harmonisation issue to be resolved, e.g. with provenance
14:59:29 [daveL]
... need more granularity on translation agent for this to advance
15:01:27 [daveL]
action: daveL to call David to advance the transagent and mtconfirdence score harmonisation
15:01:27 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-212 - Call David to advance the transagent and mtconfirdence score harmonisation [on David Lewis - due 2012-09-06].
15:02:06 [daveL]
dF: ask tadej what score format is relevant to text analytics
15:03:05 [daveL]
tadej: either 0 to 1 or percentage would work, but 0-1 would work and is perhaps more common
15:03:17 [Michael]
sorry, gotta run...cheers
15:04:10 [daveL]
felix: summarize is 0 to 1 best solution
15:04:21 [fsasaki]
s/felix:/tadej:/
15:04:32 [daveL]
tadej: this is simpler to process and percentage and can be XSD float
15:04:47 [daveL]
dF: agree we will go for this option
15:05:29 [fsasaki]
topic: time of this call
15:05:49 [fsasaki]
would it work for everybody to have it one our earlier?
15:05:54 [fsasaki]
phil: would be OK
15:06:01 [Ankit]
works for us too (DCU)
15:06:22 [daveL]
dF: could yves move earlier
15:06:35 [daveL]
yves: yes, can try
15:06:51 [fsasaki]
action: felix to send info about time change proposal to the list
15:06:51 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-213 - Send info about time change proposal to the list [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-09-06].
15:07:25 [daveL]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:07:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html daveL
15:07:44 [Yves_]
exit
15:09:39 [fsasaki]
time propsosal - one hour later
15:15:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
15:19:13 [Ankit]
Bye..
15:22:29 [gderiard]
Good bye....
15:31:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
15:35:09 [Jirka]
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