<trackbot> Date: 22 August 2012

<andy> is this working

<janina> Zakim isn't accepting 46343# from me!

<andy> nor from me

nor from me.

<Caroline_Jay> nor me

<janina> Is anyone on the call?

<Ryladog> katie is trying

can't get in throught the phone, janina

<Ryladog> not scheduled says sys admin

<richardschwerdtfe> ugh

<janina> Not good!

<janina> Michael is away today, on vacation

<richardschwerdtfe> can another conference her set up call in be set up?

<andy> I seem to be in

<andy> it might be me

<andy> probably yes

<Ryladog> yes

<andy> I41don't know how to do that on SIp

<andy> not on the phone

<andy> on SIP

http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html

<andy> I don't have a key entry window on this sip client - I dialled direct to some number@somewhere - didn't enter a call entry code at all

<scribe> scribe: Joseph_Scheuhammer

<janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force telecon

JS: go through the top of the agenda as quick as possible, then move to use cases discussion.

recruiting

JS: any updates.

CJ: introduces self.

JS: I sent one final email to Scott Gonzalez, and cc'ed doug. No response.

use cases

JS: any specific questions about the use cases?

RS: there are about 30 − 35. Should we go through every one? Or review them and add comments?

JS: one-by-one is a good way to proceed.
... looking for link...

http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements

<andy> yep

<andy> ty

RS: manipulating a map

http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements#Scenario_1:_Manipulating_a_map

RS: reads the use case.
... we agreed that the group decides the priority. Note that this use case has a priority of "medium"
... looks like they want to give a point of regard or focus.
... is that right?

KHS: should we allow voice commands as well?

RS: mobile devices allow for "next" commands, but not clear how to do this on a map.
... may also want to allow eye tracker.
... we need equivalent of events that allow users to activate the thing at the point of regard.
... rotate, and pan should be high level commands.

KHS: pinch zooms in, spreading fingers zooms out.
... we need something to give/get/select focus.

JS: Rich is noting an old screen reader technique: discover what is there without activating.

RS: that might be for the UA or AT to handle — browse the app without causing something to happen.

KHS: yes, get focus without activating.

JS: the user has explored; now I want to activate the thing I've discovered.

RS: allows users to pin their location on that "thing".

KHS: a where am I? function.

RS: or pin me here.

<Ryladog> +1

RS: is keyboard focus enough to do that today?

KHS: keyboard focus will identify where you are, and then you make a decision.

RS: yes, but may not have keyboard in this case, but need something like keyboard focus.

KHS: right. need something that does the same thing in the non-keyboard case.

RS: any objection to calling it focus, given that it might refer to something other than focus?

JS: if problematic, we can adjust later. Good working definition for now.

KHS: change the priority from medium to high, then.

JS: the focus?

KHS: right. this particular function is high (maybe not this use case).

RS: zooming — do we pass a parameter to say how much?
... do we need an amount? and how much?

KHS: sounds like something that already exists.
... in mapping GPS events.

RS: we need a zoom in/out feature.

JS: how do you decide on how much to zoom?
... good question for the list.

RS: we need the zoom functions regardless of how it is trigerred — pinch, voice command.

<Ryladog> q

<Ryladog> q

RS: do we need a rotation request?
... and what parmeters does it need?

<andy> yes

RS: clock/counter clockwise?

JS: yes.

KHS: also for 3d manipulation.
... consider a globe, and rotating it.

<janina> Yikes, I keep getting dropped!

RS: we need a z-direction, or an angle.
... we need another direction in addition to clockwise and counterclockwise

<richardschwerdtfe> Kenneth Russell Google

RS: we should discuss with one of the chrome developers.
... then there is pan and zoom — complicated in 3d.

JS: and layers...

RS: we should discuss the teminology with Kenneth.
... we have pan, zoom, rotation, and focus. Anything else?
... are these higher level events for this use case?

(no objections).

JS: do one more use case?

RS: execute a popup?

http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements#S2:_Command_to_execute_a_popup

RS: reads the use case.
... do we need to have a high level event to activate a popup?

KHS: yes

JS: yes

RS: what do you call it?

JS: need to know that it is there, first.
... after activating, need to dismiss or navigate the menu.

RS: there are a number of ways of dismiss things — ESC key.

JS: how about "open menu"?

KHS: it might not be a popup.

JS: if it has aria-haspopup, it is a menu.

KHS: but it may no longer be a menu in the future.
... so, how about "popup"

RS: any objections?

JS: these are provisional.

RS: what about getting rid of it.

JS: how about "dismiss"?

(no objections).

RS: Use case three.

http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements#S3:_Command_to_open_a_tree_branch.2C_menu.2C_expandable_grid_cell.2C_or_expandable_section

RS: reads use case.
... we are not looking at the content to see if something is expandable.
... need something like this for native controls
... is this a high priority item.

KHS: this is important, and we need to look at the 3d aspect.
... basically drilling down, and expanding.

RS: compare this with zooming. this is revealing content.

KHS: yes

RS: maybe it's "reveal content" then.

JS: is this all that different from a popup?

KHS: this is heirarchy in this case.

RS: right, popup shows a different entity.
... but, potentially they can be the same.

JS: it might be a degree of complexity.

RS: Joseph, can a tree item also have a popup?

JES: yes, a tree item can be expandable, and it can also have a popup menu associated with it.

<janina> I think I've been talking but have been dropped by Zakim!

<richardschwerdtfe> ACTION: clown author draft spec. change for james craig to include place holders for agreed upon events today in [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/22-indie-ui-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-5 - Author draft spec. change for james craig to include place holders for agreed upon events today in [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2012-08-29].

JS: so maybe these are different kinds of commands or different ways of revealing things.

<richardschwerdtfe> zakm, ??P0 is janina

JS: james craig will put the apple proposal into mercurial and then people can have access.
... the next meeting is sep 5.
... and discuss everything on the email list.

RS: start next meeting with S4, which is the opposite of expand.

<Caroline_Jay> -Caroline

http://www.w3.org/2012/08/22-indie-ui-minutes.html,text

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/user cases/use cases/
Succeeded: s/K:/KHS:/
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No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: clown
Found Scribe: Joseph_Scheuhammer
Default Present: Rich, Joseph_Scheuhammer, hober, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Janina, andy, Caroline_Jay
Present: Rich Joseph_Scheuhammer hober Katie_Haritos-Shea Janina andy Caroline_Jay
Found Date: 22 Aug 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/08/22-indie-ui-minutes.html
People with action items: author change clown craig draft for james spec.

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