See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 22 August 2012
<andy> is this working
<janina> Zakim isn't accepting 46343# from me!
<andy> nor from me
nor from me.
<Caroline_Jay> nor me
<janina> Is anyone on the call?
<Ryladog> katie is trying
can't get in throught the phone, janina
<Ryladog> not scheduled says sys admin
<janina> Not good!
<janina> Michael is away today, on vacation
<richardschwerdtfe> can another conference her set up call in be set up?
<andy> I seem to be in
<andy> it might be me
<andy> probably yes
<andy> I41don't know how to do that on SIp
<andy> not on the phone
<andy> on SIP
<andy> I don't have a key entry window on this sip client - I dialled direct to some number@somewhere - didn't enter a call entry code at all
<scribe> scribe: Joseph_Scheuhammer
<janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force telecon
JS: go through the top of the agenda as quick as possible, then move to use cases discussion.
JS: any updates.
CJ: introduces self.
JS: I sent one final email to Scott Gonzalez, and cc'ed doug. No response.
JS: any specific questions about the use cases?
RS: there are about 30 − 35. Should we go through every one? Or review them and add comments?
JS: one-by-one is a good way to
... looking for link...
RS: manipulating a map
RS: reads the use case.
... we agreed that the group decides the priority. Note that this use case has a priority of "medium"
... looks like they want to give a point of regard or focus.
... is that right?
KHS: should we allow voice commands as well?
RS: mobile devices allow for
"next" commands, but not clear how to do this on a map.
... may also want to allow eye tracker.
... we need equivalent of events that allow users to activate the thing at the point of regard.
... rotate, and pan should be high level commands.
KHS: pinch zooms in, spreading
fingers zooms out.
... we need something to give/get/select focus.
JS: Rich is noting an old screen reader technique: discover what is there without activating.
RS: that might be for the UA or AT to handle — browse the app without causing something to happen.
KHS: yes, get focus without activating.
JS: the user has explored; now I want to activate the thing I've discovered.
RS: allows users to pin their location on that "thing".
KHS: a where am I? function.
RS: or pin me here.
RS: is keyboard focus enough to do that today?
KHS: keyboard focus will identify where you are, and then you make a decision.
RS: yes, but may not have keyboard in this case, but need something like keyboard focus.
KHS: right. need something that does the same thing in the non-keyboard case.
RS: any objection to calling it focus, given that it might refer to something other than focus?
JS: if problematic, we can adjust later. Good working definition for now.
KHS: change the priority from medium to high, then.
JS: the focus?
KHS: right. this particular function is high (maybe not this use case).
RS: zooming — do we pass a
parameter to say how much?
... do we need an amount? and how much?
KHS: sounds like something that
... in mapping GPS events.
RS: we need a zoom in/out feature.
JS: how do you decide on how much
... good question for the list.
RS: we need the zoom functions regardless of how it is trigerred — pinch, voice command.
RS: do we need a rotation
... and what parmeters does it need?
RS: clock/counter clockwise?
KHS: also for 3d
... consider a globe, and rotating it.
<janina> Yikes, I keep getting dropped!
RS: we need a z-direction, or an
... we need another direction in addition to clockwise and counterclockwise
<richardschwerdtfe> Kenneth Russell Google
RS: we should discuss with one of
the chrome developers.
... then there is pan and zoom — complicated in 3d.
JS: and layers...
RS: we should discuss the
teminology with Kenneth.
... we have pan, zoom, rotation, and focus. Anything else?
... are these higher level events for this use case?
JS: do one more use case?
RS: execute a popup?
RS: reads the use case.
... do we need to have a high level event to activate a popup?
RS: what do you call it?
JS: need to know that it is
... after activating, need to dismiss or navigate the menu.
RS: there are a number of ways of dismiss things — ESC key.
JS: how about "open menu"?
KHS: it might not be a popup.
JS: if it has aria-haspopup, it is a menu.
KHS: but it may no longer be a
menu in the future.
... so, how about "popup"
RS: any objections?
JS: these are provisional.
RS: what about getting rid of it.
JS: how about "dismiss"?
RS: Use case three.
RS: reads use case.
... we are not looking at the content to see if something is expandable.
... need something like this for native controls
... is this a high priority item.
KHS: this is important, and we
need to look at the 3d aspect.
... basically drilling down, and expanding.
RS: compare this with zooming. this is revealing content.
RS: maybe it's "reveal content" then.
JS: is this all that different from a popup?
KHS: this is heirarchy in this case.
RS: right, popup shows a
... but, potentially they can be the same.
JS: it might be a degree of complexity.
RS: Joseph, can a tree item also have a popup?
JES: yes, a tree item can be expandable, and it can also have a popup menu associated with it.
<janina> I think I've been talking but have been dropped by Zakim!
<richardschwerdtfe> ACTION: clown author draft spec. change for james craig to include place holders for agreed upon events today in [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/22-indie-ui-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-5 - Author draft spec. change for james craig to include place holders for agreed upon events today in [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2012-08-29].
JS: so maybe these are different kinds of commands or different ways of revealing things.
<richardschwerdtfe> zakm, ??P0 is janina
JS: james craig will put the
apple proposal into mercurial and then people can have
... the next meeting is sep 5.
... and discuss everything on the email list.
RS: start next meeting with S4, which is the opposite of expand.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/user cases/use cases/ Succeeded: s/K:/KHS:/ Succeeded: s/K:/KHS:/g No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: clown Found Scribe: Joseph_Scheuhammer Default Present: Rich, Joseph_Scheuhammer, hober, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Janina, andy, Caroline_Jay Present: Rich Joseph_Scheuhammer hober Katie_Haritos-Shea Janina andy Caroline_Jay Found Date: 22 Aug 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/08/22-indie-ui-minutes.html People with action items: author change clown craig draft for james spec. WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]