SVG Working Group Teleconference

05 Jul 2012


See also: IRC log




<trackbot> Date: 05 July 2012

<scribe> scribenick: birtles

SVG F2F at SVG Open

heycam, have we resolved on this yet?

<ed_home> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F_SVGOpen_2012

CM: asked Andreas about this, fine but we need to let him know if we will meet before or after SVG open

ED: we have a wiki which suggests we've resolved it

<ed_home> 17 - 19 September 2012

ED: it says 17th-19th Sep

CM: i.e. directly after SVG Open
... so it's going ahead?
... I'll get to Andreas with those dates

Seattle/Paris F2F

<ed_home> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Seattle_Paris_2012/Agenda_proposals

ED: please remember to add agenda topics

<ed_home> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Seattle_Paris_2012

ED: Cyril added some details for the Paris part

CM: The hotel is about 20min walk from the venue
... I wonder how it will work logistically

DS: I'll probably rent a car...

<heycam> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/SVGSeattleParis2012/results

DS: some others live there
... who is actually attending Seattle?
... we have 6 non-locals: we could rent a bigger vehicle or see if Rik can help


scribe: those of us flying in should share our info
... I'll put my information there and people who want a ride can... can... can...
... I'll work it out with Rik

CC: I tested the videoconferencing equipment with Adobe and we couldn't make a full test
... I'd like to make another test this week
... I'll email them

CM: it's three days of meetings right?

ED: yes

CM: do we want to focus on spec work during those days?
... since we want to publish directly after the F2F

DS: I'd like us to spend about 1/3rd of the time (a bit each day) working on specs

ED: fine with me

CC: In Paris we could work in the afternoon before the conference
... and in Seattle you could work after the conference
... then it wouldn't have to start so early in Seattle

CM: I'll send a mail out to the list with a proposal about allocating time for spec work


Dirk's question about media fragments

CM: Dirk sent an email with concerns about media fragments and how that interacts with our SVG view specifications that you can put in URI references
... he was concerned that the media fragment spec uses predefined identifiers x, y, t etc.
... that that would conflict with SVG elements with IDs with those identifiers
... with media fragments you always have to put something after the identifier with =
... I don't think that problem actually occurs

DS: there's a problem with using barename hash with media values
... it makes sense with video for that resource to have time information
... but what if you visit an HTML page which contains a video
... sites like youtube pass the fragment into the video
... seems fragile but maybe ok
... but what about an HTML or SVG page that has multiple media resources
... what if you want to target only one of those resources
... e.g. two videos and four soundtracks
... the application lets you take clips from each one of those
... and lets you mix them together
... I want to target the timepoint of just one video

CC: it depends how many timelines you have in your document

DS: yes, how do you target just one
... I don't think there's a mechanism for that
... what do you do?
... how do you parameterise it?
... what if I want to target one video and the italian audiotrack?

CC: that's not up to the media fragments spec
... it's up to the document to do what it wants with the time

DS: I'm concerned that that's fragile
... there's no way of targetting a specific element with a specific time
... making the document do it all is more work for the application

CM: sounds like an issue for the media fragments spec
... Dirk's concern was more with incompatibility with SVG syntax
... I still don't think there's incompatibility
... but being able to address multiple times within a multi-resource document sounds like something to be solved within media fragments
... and not related to integrating with SVG

ED: so there are no incompatibilities?

CM: not unless we allow IDs with = signs
... but currently they are XML Names so we're ok

ED: would we have to special case fragments in SVG? or just point to media fragments?

CM: we might want to reformulate svgViews as a type of hash that falls under the media fragment scheme
... or just make it a top-level switch: either viewbox or media fragment
... it would probably have to stay separate

DS: I think we need to work with them
... I'd like to raise a slightly different issue around IDs
... they are currently XML Names
... I see so many files that are invalid because people want to use a number for an ID
... I don't know why IDs starting with numbers aren't allowed
... but in retrospect it seems ridiculous
... now you have to do, e.g. id="e1" or id="_1"
... do you think it's reasonable we go against that
... there are two communities: do the XML thing; or, people want to use numbers so let them
... do you think it might be worth allow a different microsyntax for IDs to allow numbers?

CM: seems reasonable, since HTML allows it

DS: we'd have to disallow = signs for compatibility with media fragments

CM: I think id was moving from HTMLElement/SVGElement to Element in the IDL
... so if there's a single place for it, then it should have consistent behavior
... and it's good from an authors expectations point of view

DS: I'd like to align with HTML/DOM here

ED: I agree

CM: I don't think HTML does any special with what follows the # but just makes it all an ID ref

DS: do you think we could resolve to use the HTML production?

CM: the HTML spec says "an opaque string"
... there's some trickiness with non-ASCII values
... and special URL encoding
... but I'd be in favour of aligning here

RESOLUTION: we will align HTML/DOM on ID attribute values (incl. numbers as the first character)
... we will work to avoid conflict in our fragment identifiers with Media Fragments

rssagent, make minutes

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JulSep/0000.html

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Found Date: 05 Jul 2012
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