See also: IRC log
<Joshue108> 2.4.3 technique.
Yes, it took me several tries.
Loretta asked about the order of text to be concatenated
Detlev's testing shows that the order of the ids is the order of concatentation.
Loretta: what about text of link itselv?
Detlef: it seems to depend on the browser. In one browser it just reads the label text and not the link text; in another browser it just reads the link text and not the label text.
Detlev: Steve Faulkner has an article that discusses some of these differences.
Loretta: not sufficient?
James: works ok with links
Josh: were your tests with links consistent
Detlev: I'm not sure. With links, it may work but not always. Will need more testing for user agent support.
James: the element that is
referenced by aria-labelled by needs to be in the tab order.
Using tabindex=-1 is sufficient.
... this is a deficiency in IE's implementation.
Josh: Detlev, will you update this with test result information, and this dicussion.
Loretta: how do these links show up in the links list?
Josh: I thin only the link text will show up in the list.
James: Why? Shouldn't it include the entire label?
Loretta: Detlev, could you please test this while you are checking aria-labelledby for links.
James: Shouldn't labelledby replace the text? To include both, you would need to include an id to the element itself.
Loretta: links are a different sort of interactive element, since most don't have the equivalent of link text.
Josh: I will do more testing tomorrow and post the results to the test.
<Joshue108> Loretta: I don't see anything here that would be unavailable to an AT user.
<Joshue108> Loretta: In the discussion of 2.4.4 one of the challenges is the loss of context.
<Joshue108> LGR: This is clear for a sighted person, difficult for a VIP.
<Joshue108> LGR: So there are issues that are general usability issues?
<Joshue108> LGR: Will providing labelledby, leave out other PwD?
Loretta: Adam, will you bring the issue to the WB of whether the 2.4.4 sufficient techniques introduce problems for low vision users who are not using AT.
Detlev: testing this has been quite challenging, with different results from different browser/AT combinations.
Johs: I will test these cases, too.
Adam commented that is would be good to have a consistent way to phrasing certain tests for all the techniques, e.g. testing for valid id.
Adam to try to craft a proposal.
Adam: is this sufficient or advisory?
Loretta: is will depend on which SC
Adam: for 3.2.2, label must be visible. THe examples are great.
Loretta: This is probably applicable to other SC, e.g., 4.1.2 (assuming it is supported).
Detle: use of native label with aria-labelledby.
Detlev: For IE8, no aria will work.
<Joshue108> Loretta: The tech should not require the redundant use of @label.
<Joshue108> Loretta: May need a note
<Joshue108> Detlev: Should native labels be removed?
<Joshue108> Loretta: Maybe have one w/o label. It is a little tricky.
<Joshue108> Detlev: We can have an example w/o native fallback and a discussion of both.
<Joshue108> Loretta: We don't include discussion of fallback for this reason.
<Joshue108> Loretta: But we do like to make people aware.
<Joshue108> Detlev: It would be good to make people aware, so it prob should be there.
<Joshue108> Loretta: Yes, but not in all examples.
<Joshue108> JN: We should say which bits are fall back and what are required for technique.
<Joshue108> Josh: We should add as much info as possible about our techs, support etc then sculpt.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/arua/aria/ FAILED: s/arua/aria/ No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: Loretta_ Found Scribe: Loretta Default Present: Joshue, Adam, Loretta, Detlev, James_Nurthen Present: Joshue Adam Loretta Detlev James_Nurthen Got date from IRC log name: 02 Jul 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/07/02-html-techs-tf-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]