HTML Techniques Task Force

02 Jul 2012

See also: IRC log


Joshue, Adam, Loretta, Detlev, James_Nurthen


<Joshue108> 2.4.3 technique.

Yes, it took me several tries.

<scribe> Scribe:Loretta

* https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/html-techs-28-June-2012/

Using aria-labelledby for link purpose

<Joshue108> s/arua/aria

Loretta asked about the order of text to be concatenated

Detlev's testing shows that the order of the ids is the order of concatentation.

Loretta: what about text of link itselv?

Detlef: it seems to depend on the browser. In one browser it just reads the label text and not the link text; in another browser it just reads the link text and not the label text.

Detlev: Steve Faulkner has an article that discusses some of these differences.

Loretta: not sufficient?

James: works ok with links

Josh: were your tests with links consistent

Detlev: I'm not sure. With links, it may work but not always. Will need more testing for user agent support.

James: the element that is referenced by aria-labelled by needs to be in the tab order. Using tabindex=-1 is sufficient.
... this is a deficiency in IE's implementation.

Josh: Detlev, will you update this with test result information, and this dicussion.

Loretta: how do these links show up in the links list?

Josh: I thin only the link text will show up in the list.

James: Why? Shouldn't it include the entire label?

Loretta: Detlev, could you please test this while you are checking aria-labelledby for links.

Detlev: yes

James: Shouldn't labelledby replace the text? To include both, you would need to include an id to the element itself.

Loretta: links are a different sort of interactive element, since most don't have the equivalent of link text.

Josh: I will do more testing tomorrow and post the results to the test.

<Joshue108> Loretta: I don't see anything here that would be unavailable to an AT user.

<Joshue108> Loretta: In the discussion of 2.4.4 one of the challenges is the loss of context.

<Joshue108> LGR: This is clear for a sighted person, difficult for a VIP.

<Joshue108> LGR: So there are issues that are general usability issues?

<Joshue108> LGR: Will providing labelledby, leave out other PwD?

Loretta: Adam, will you bring the issue to the WB of whether the 2.4.4 sufficient techniques introduce problems for low vision users who are not using AT.

Adam: ok

Using aria-labelledby to concatenate a label from several text nodes

Detlev: testing this has been quite challenging, with different results from different browser/AT combinations.

Johs: I will test these cases, too.

Adam commented that is would be good to have a consistent way to phrasing certain tests for all the techniques, e.g. testing for valid id.

Adam to try to craft a proposal.

Adam: is this sufficient or advisory?

Loretta: is will depend on which SC

Adam: for 3.2.2, label must be visible. THe examples are great.

Loretta: This is probably applicable to other SC, e.g., 4.1.2 (assuming it is supported).

Detle: use of native label with aria-labelledby.

Detlev: For IE8, no aria will work.

<Joshue108> Loretta: The tech should not require the redundant use of @label.

<Joshue108> Loretta: May need a note

<Joshue108> Detlev: Should native labels be removed?

<Joshue108> Loretta: Maybe have one w/o label. It is a little tricky.

<Joshue108> Detlev: We can have an example w/o native fallback and a discussion of both.

<Joshue108> Loretta: We don't include discussion of fallback for this reason.

<Joshue108> Loretta: But we do like to make people aware.

<Joshue108> Detlev: It would be good to make people aware, so it prob should be there.

<Joshue108> Loretta: Yes, but not in all examples.

<Joshue108> JN: We should say which bits are fall back and what are required for technique.

<Joshue108> Josh: We should add as much info as possible about our techs, support etc then sculpt.

Summary of Action Items

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People with action items: 

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