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<trackbot> Date: 28 June 2012
<kford> microsoftzakim, microsoft is kford
<JAllan> Jan's presentation: Assessment Of Keyboard Interface Accessibility In Mobile Browsers - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2012/mobile/paper4/
<scribe> scribe: Harper_Simon
<scribe> ScribeNick: sharper
Mobile symposium report, Jan did a presentation
jeanne was also present
JS very impressed, liked the format - peaople had a chance to read papers, then a discussion, lots of questions, filled in with questions from Yeliz
JS: disappointed in themes not aware of standards other than WCAG - applicability to mobile Jan was the super star.
JR: Liked format, no preaching,
... took mobile browsers, scored on keyboard accessibility - UAAG has something to say on this
... scored on IpHone Android etc against a few sites - everyone needs to do their job, platform, browser, website
... FF scored low but now getting into accessibility on their mobile browsers
... Hopeful about mobile accessibility, first time , multiple large tech companies competing on features
... All can be made accessible (ATs etc - own accessible UI where ever they are)
JS: Brian Cragun from IBM very good qs
JR: mobile security containerise the phone so problems for accessibility when the phone is taken into some companies
JS: IBM policy to turn off
... everything is going to the apple servers fro processing - so security implications
SH: see Richard Stallman talk
AT&T has a similar back end speech engine via nuance
Transcribed Stallman talk version available next Tuesday at http://simon.harper.name
JA: thanks Jan for banging our UI drum and raising profile
MH: Sent to list but have not yet appeared - ?
<mhakkinen> timebase Defines a common time scale for a time-based media presentation.
JA: the light at the end of the tunnel is not a train about to flatten us, everyone is working hard to clear stuff up.
GL: by common you mean either - used to seeing - or consistant
MH: providing a common base
across all constituents of a presentation
... example give to elucidate the point for GL
JR: elucidation sounds good need extra
GL: including the example with the defn would also be useful
<JAllan> timebase - providing a common time scale across all constituents of a time-based media presentation
<JAllan> timebase - providing a common time scale across all components of a time-based media presentation
<JAllan> timebase - defines a common time scale across all components of a time-based media presentation
<mhakkinen> For example, a mediaplayer will expose a single timebase for a presentation composed of individual video and audio tracks.
<JAllan> timebase - providing a common time scale for all components of a time-based media presentation
Timebase - providing a common time scale for all components of a time-based media presentation. For example, a media-player will expose a single timebase for a presentation composed of individual video and audio tracks, allowing users or technology to query or alter the playback rate
Timebase - defining a common time scale for all components of a time-based media presentation. For example, a media-player will expose a single timebase for a presentation composed of individual video and audio tracks, allowing users or technology to query or alter the playback rate.
Timebase - defining a common time scale for all components of a time-based media presentation. For example, a media-player will expose a single timebase for a presentation composed of individual video and audio tracks, for instance allowing users or technology to query or alter the playback rate and position.
RESOLUTION: Timebase - defining a common time scale for all components of a time-based media presentation. For example, a media-player will expose a single timebase for a presentation composed of individual video and audio tracks, for instance allowing users or technology to query or alter the playback rate and position.
<mhakkinen> Continuous scale When interacting with a time-based media presentation, a continuous scale allows user (or programmatic) action to set the active playback position to any time point on the presentation timeline. The granularity of the positioning is determined by the smallest resolvable time unit in the media timebase.
GL: clearer if 'as opposed to' included...
<JAllan> definitions for 2.11.7 Navigate Time-Based Media:
<JAllan> The user can navigate along the timebase using a continuous scale, and by relative time units within rendered audio and animations (including video and animated images) that last three or more seconds at their default playback rate.
RESOLUTION: Continuous scale When interacting with a time-based media presentation, a continuous scale allows user (or programmatic) action to set the active playback position to any time point on the presentation timeline. The granularity of the positioning is determined by the smallest resolvable time unit in the media timebase.
<mhakkinen> Relative time units
<mhakkinen> When interacting with a time-based media presentation, a user may find it easier to move forward or backward via time intervals, such as skipping ahead by 10 seconds in a video lecture. Relative time units define time intervals for media navigation which may be preset, user configurable, and/or automatically calculated based upon media duration.
discussion of how relative time units are used
JR: if % increases which are relative, but not 3 second units
SH relative to current position
GL: isn't this about larger chunks - units larger than the minimum unit
JS: wouldn't be better for units to be predictable to user
JA: seen this both ways - or
... sounds like we are asking for a different word (and sc) - time units
<Jan> time increments?
JR: time increaments
<Jan> JA: Time intervals
JA: time increments (already in Defn)
JS: what is the point of having it relatively adjustable?
Cases as to why this is required presented
<KimPatch> Jeanne: I want to push back on setting it as a requirement for that number
<KimPatch> Greg: using a scrollbar for that can be quite cumbersome and yet it's a fairly common need therefore recommending that there be a shortcut for that operation seems completely reasonable
<KimPatch> Jan: yes continuous scale, it's also important to be able to move increments along that scale and leave it open for user agent to determine what those increments are
<KimPatch> Greg: what you just described could be met by providing a scrollbar that only moves into second increments, but my thinking of the goal is a shortcut for moving in positive or negative direction by a small amount
<KimPatch> Jan: they can be linked to a shortcut. If you click outside the generally jumps in increments.
<KimPatch> Jim: the relative time units wasn't quite getting at -- we're looking at calling it time increments
<KimPatch> Mark: what about positioning or navigational time increments for audio
<jeanne> Jeanne: Media Accessibility User Requirements does not address it. The only reference I can find is: [CNS-2] Users must be able to discover, skip, play-in-line, or directly access ancillary content structures. http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-media-accessibility-reqs-20120103/#granularity-level-control-for-structural-navigation
<KimPatch> Jan: navigation time increments?
<JAllan> mark will review the definition and 2.11.7 action-699 for next week
<mhakkinen> 2.11.11 Scale and position visual alternative media tracks: The user can scale and position alternative media tracks independent of the base video or audio player presentation. (Level AAA)
<KimPatch> Mark: slight tweak to text -- we had only stated video before
<JAllan> scribe: KimPatch
Greg: eventually they'll be something beyond video and audio, but not much today
Jeanne: I think it's clearer with video and audio
Jan: scale and position
Jim: where you can move the captions into a different place and make them bigger or smaller
Mark: I will add the word visual
<mhakkinen> 2.11.11 Scale and position visual alternative media tracks: The user can scale and position alternative visual media tracks independent of the base video or audio player presentation. (Level AAA)
Greg: visual alternative media to keep the phrase
Jan: independent is what's really important-- able to make the captions larger without making the base video larger. But what does it mean independent of audio presentation
Mark: captions available as a button on the audio player. I click that and the small captions window appears. I now want that to be larger than the audio player default and I want to move it elsewhere and scale it
Jan: audio controls -- you don't want to scale the whole thing you just want to scale this one part of it. We have some other stuff on scaling -- viewports and this is essentially a viewport.
Mark: I toyed with using the term
viewport and backed off of it,
... you won't be thinking of these things as the viewports that we know and love
Greg: sometimes we will, but that's rare compared to the number of times it's overlaid
Jan: not within the same confines of the viewport -- anywhere on the page, screen, any size -- that's a high bar. The low bar is you can scale it, you can choose between 12 points and 14 point font, choose between the bottom and two pixels above the bottom...
Greg: letter but not the spirit -- that's true of a lot of these
Jan: maybe just the word independent, strong here
Greg: I like the word independent -- it's clear that has to be moved outside the video. Most things don't comply with that
Jim: bringing up testability was
a good idea. Is this way too far-fetched?
... we are saying the browser needs to do this if we are doing native HTML 5 stuff -- that we can detach the captions from the video and put them someplace else on the screen -- make them an active object you can drag around and resize. Do we have any real live implementations of this
Mark: I don't know of anybody who's doing it presently
Jim: UAAG next?
<mhakkinen> Users who require or can benefit from alternative media tracks in video or audio may not find the default or authored position and size of those tracks to be usable. Enabling the user to move and scale any displayed alternate media tracks (e.g. captions) allows for the displayed content to be positioned and sized to meet the needs of the user.
Jan: I don't want to go that far.
Increase the size of captions rather than this way open
... intent really good.
<mhakkinen> Justin has low vision and works in a noisy environment that makes it difficult to listen to instructional videos. When he enlarges the text of the captions to a viewable size, they block most of the video image. Justin selects an option that displays the caption track in a separate window, which he positions below the video image so the captions do not block the video image.
<mhakkinen> Jaime is deaf and is taking courses from on online university. She prefers to utilize ASL if it is available for online media, and a current course she is taking offers both captions and a signing avatar for the recorded lectures. The default size of the avatar window is small, making it difficult to follow the signing. The avatar also overlays a significant part of the lecture video. Jaime drags the avatar out of the video and enlarges it, so that both ar
<mhakkinen> so that both are equally sized and side by side.
Mark: fix the SC
Jim: we have everything
... at the presentation huge panel at CSUN three years ago, WGBH, Adobe, movie studios. they were showing video and caption side by side, and also the last 30 seconds of captions -- last 15 lines of dialogue and it was on a continuous scroll and other sorts of things so that sometimes the caption goes by so fast -- they were allowing instead of the normal two lines 15 or 20 lines. Those...
... were some of the things I saw in addition to positioning website bottom moving around and scaling to text -- what was on the bleeding edge at that time
... acceptance of the intent and example -- no objections
Resolved: accepted examples and intent and will revisit SC wording next week
<JAllan> zakim: close item 3
<mhakkinen> 5.1.5 Alternative content handlers: The user can select content elements and have them rendered in alternative viewers. (Level AA)
<mhakkinen> Intent of Success Criterion 5.1.5: When accessing media or specialized content (e.g. MathML) on the Web, users with disabilities sometimes find they have a richer or more accessible experience using a third-party application, plug-in, or extension, than using the browser's built-in facilities. In these cases they want to be able to navigate to content in their browser and then enable or activate a browser plug-in or extension to interact with the content
<JAllan> zaim: open item 4
<mhakkinen> Alternately, they may elect to save that content to their disk and launch it in a third- party application.
<JAllan> zakim: open item 4
Mark: removable media
Jan: save the content
... it's not entirely clear from this whether the ability to save content is required or not. It does not seem to be required
Mark: it depends on the content
and the plug-in for what you're going to potentially view it in
-- we don't know what that's going to be
... but I understand your point
Jim: I don't think we want to make it a requirement I think the important thing is that they can interact with it with a third-party viewer
Mark: I change the intent to little bit
<mhakkinen> Jukka is visually impaired and a scientist whose work involves mathematical models for speech recognition. Many of the journals he reads online are beginning to include MathML to display equations. Jukka finds the native support for MathML accessibility in his Web browser to be generally compatible with his screen reader, but it can become unreliable for extremely complex equations. In those cases, Jukka selects an alternate rendering plugin via a conte
<mhakkinen> to his screen reader.
<mhakkinen> Jukka finds the native support for MathML accessibility in his Web browser to be generally compatible with his screen reader, but it can become unreliable for extremely complex equations.
<mhakkinen> In those cases, Jukka selects an alternate rendering plugin via a context menu to make the MathML understandable to his screen reader.
<JAllan> 5.1.5 Alternative content handlers: The user can select content elements and have them rendered in alternative viewers. (Level AA)
Mark: I change something in intent and added preference to mathML
<JAllan> zakim: close this item
Jim: next time Jeanne proposal
<JAllan> close action-653
<trackbot> ACTION-653 Rework 543...tighten up, use mathml use case closed
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Transcribed/Transcribed Stallman talk/ Found Scribe: Harper_Simon Found ScribeNick: sharper Found Scribe: KimPatch Inferring ScribeNick: KimPatch Scribes: Harper_Simon, KimPatch ScribeNicks: sharper, KimPatch Default Present: Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, Jim_Allan, Mark, kford, sharper, Kim_Patch, Jan Present: greg jan jeanne jim kim mark simon Regrets: kford Found Date: 28 Jun 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-ua-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]