See also: IRC log
<shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-evaltf/2012Apr/0075.html
<shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20120510
Public working draft has ended - so looking at 7 public comments
<shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag-em-comments/
Eric - Interesting positive comments from the public, all of which will be placed in a document
<vivienne> +1
Eric - we will have a list of comments etc... which can be discussed in the next phone meeting
<ssirois> yes.
<Sarah_Swierenga> +1
<Aurelien_levy> +1
<ssirois> i loved that approach last time.
<Kathy> +1
<Kerstin> +1
<Mike_Elledge> +1
<MoeKraft> +1
<Liz> +1
Eric - this document should be ready for Monday
Eric - the next call will focus on the comments
Eric - how will the comments affect the draft
Peter - Not available next week
Eric - There will be more opportunity to talk about the comments on an on-going basis
Eric - You could enter any comments in the document, if you are unable to take part in the call
Peter - V.Busy
<richard> zakim ??P36 is richard
Eric - Point 3 - new version of editors draft
Eric - walking through changes
Eric - I made changes to earlier sections based on discussion - the changes have been documented in a email sent to the list
<Ryladog> Sorry for coming late
<Kerstin> shadi, no, don't think so
<Detlev> Do you have that echo, too?
<Aurelien_levy> Zakim P39 is Aurelien_levy
<Aurelien_levy> Zakim P39 is Aurelien_levy"
There is a feedback loop on the line...
<Detlev> maybe everyone should mute themselves?
<richard> p36 is richard
<korn> I've muted locally
Who is sitting in the Sydney Opera Hall???
<vivienne> there are a few people not muted - Sarah, Liz, Alistair and Mike
Locally muted
<korn> Shadi, can we simply mute EVERYONE except Eric?
<korn> Then folks can unmute when they get into queue?
mute me
<ssirois> oh! it worked...
<Detlev> much better
<ssirois> but now we don't know who it was! ;)
<Liz> mute me
<Kerstin> zakim is not my friend today
Eric - line ok
Eric - Added in section 3 - a web application could be a single webpage
Eric - Peter talked about a one page application
Eric - However, a single page could contain many components - so we looked at use cases
Eric - Difficult when looking at a web app to record urls
<Aurelien_levy> maybe we also can speak about component
<vivienne> We had to do that recently
Eric - Difficult to log the urls in a report
Eric - anyone have any ideas how this could be handled
Peter - web applications may only be on a single page
Peter - this might sum up the situation a bit better
Eric - Even if there are more than one pages - there still could be a several uses cases
Peter - you would have to describe the things which have been done on each page i.e. each use case followed
<Aurelien_levy> we can described the uses cases and we also can identify the component using xpath or id
Eric - How would you record this in a machine readable way
Shadi - Peter used the term screen instead of page - maybe this is better to talk about than page
Shadi - note - with a web application we could talk about screen instead of web page
Peter - forgotten comment, but like the idea
Peter - maybe we would want to consider a more formal definition of screen with respect to web apps
Richard - Not happy with doing evaluation on one or two pages - we should be looking in terms of websites
Eric - but what if the website has three pages which contain several applications
Eric - You could do 1000s of things through these pages - rather than just pages
Eric - we could add a definition of screen
Eric - do we know if this has been discussed in W3C
Katie - could be under the mobile one section
Peter - using mobile could be difficult - as it could relate to the concept of forms
Peter - the larger concept of 'screen' would be useful
Katie - in the old days the screen was called view port
Eric - send me a link if there is any further information
<Aurelien_levy> it's me again fighting with my connection
Detlev - Screen may not be the best term, what happens if you have hidden screens etc... could be confusing
Detlev - maybe state changes could cover it
Eric - could be worth considering it - maybe extending the definition of web page
Eric - step 5 a
Eric - Provide additional information about paths
<vivienne> Sorry Eric, where is that?
Eric - how do you describe paths which have been followed.
agarrison
+q
<vivienne> thanks, was not looking properly
<Aurelien_levy> I think Deque Fireeyes extension generate some scenario file
Peter - notion of screen raises important questions - what is a screen, accordion, refresh
<Mike_Elledge> Bye folks, have to go to another meeting. Ciao/Cheers/a bientot.
Peter - bullet at end of 5a - don't think we can define path until we more fully understand other concepts
<Sarah_Swierenga> 5a. last bullet makes sense to me
Peter - how important is machine readability
<Aurelien_levy> I think my mic is generating the echo so i can't unmute
Eric - machine readable reports allow easy comparisons
Peter - from my past in software testing - coverage / path testing - could be a large and time consuming thing
<shadi> AG: macros can record the steps taken
<shadi> ...where clicked and where that lead you to
Alistair - macros could be recorded to go along with use cases
Samuel - how can we continue to provide machine readable reports without being bond to a product
Samuel - there are products which could do this but it might be tricky
Eric - Remembered that machine readable report is optional
Eric - This is just looking at a way which would easily create a machine readable report
Samuel - Wondering if someone from Evaluation and Report Group could comment
Peter - good to hear that this is an optional area
Peter - as things change quickly
Peter - recording macros could be brittle, and not 100% accurate
Peter - we should ensure that this section is optional
<Aurelien_levy> one sort of marco command is : http://seleniumhq.org/docs/
Eric - it would still be good to look at how to do it
?+
Shadi - chairs EARL working group
<ssirois> i can take the task of inviting someone from the ERT WG on our next meeting or i can discuss a little with them (since i'm registered to there mailing list) in order to understand how EARL 1.0 Schema could help us. (see http://www.w3.org/TR/EARL10-Schema/)
Shadi - EARL supports a number of ways to record page e.g. xpath, xpointer, exchange between server and client
Shadi - Peter was saying that it was not 100% accurate
<shadi> Step 4.d: Archive Web Pages for Reference (Optional)
Shadi - Another important point was archive web pages
Shadi - in the context of an application which show personal information could be tricky
Shadi - we might not want to record such information
Shadi - we would just have to outline the situation
Vivienne - Archiving pages - Needed to record websites - Can you save dynamic pages into blackbox
Peter - it depends upon the page and site
Peter - trying to record pages which rely on local code presents a problem
Eric - can we think of a standardised format
Shadi - you can record the DOM at best
Shadi - DOM plus steps to get to the DOM
Shadi - edge cases
Eric - can we have input from the EARL working group
Shadi - is that 5f optional machine readable reports
Shadi - what do we specifically want to record
Alistair - How does google cache pages?
Eric - will add to 5f - trying to put in information for people who would want to provide machine readable reports
Alistair - how many applications can read machine readable reports?
<vivienne> I can't understand Peter clearly. Is it the line?
Peter - we are using technologies which do not have a DOM
Peter - so we must remember this
Eric - Evaluator and commissioner can be asked for supporting material such as use cases
Eric - Check text to see if this is reflected
Eric - 5a bullet point 3 added - make clear what pages are part of a complete process
Eric - why, pages in a complete process must be checked in combination
Eric - Detlev is this OK
Detlev - All pages in a complete process must be part of a sample - do we need to do this in all cases. We need an exception rule
Detlev - 70 pages which contain similar content which you step through page by page
Eric - other important changes
Eric - definition of template added
Eric - first concept version of a definition
Eric - like or hate it?
Detlev - Comment about techniques from the email list
Detlev - 4B
Detlev - There is a great deal of talk relating to this point
<Aurelien_levy> +1 for Detlev
Eric - We should look at this next week
What is the command to make minutes?
Peter - can we have multiple templates on a single page - does it have to be HTML based?
<Detlev> I think it is "multiple samples on the same page"!
Thanks
Shadi - how to make minutes?
Shadi - next week is a public holiday
<vivienne> not in Australia either?
Eric - we shall miss the meeting next week
<vivienne> okay, 24 May is good
Eric - 24th May next meeting
Eric - documents will come next week