See also: IRC log
<janina> scribe: janina
jb: Reviewing today's agenda
... We met with chairs again ...
... Also want to coordinate with individuals here, Leif, perhaps Laura, if she's able to join at some point
... John, re 204 before John needs to leave ...
... Metaname ...
... Want to be sure to mention that I'm encouraged by our coordination calls with the HTML WG Chairs, I think it's helping us make progress
... Everything still needs to follow the WG Decision Policy, of course, but coordination helps with understanding and expectations
... One topic was I-203 ...
... We discussed I-203, they're trying to be flexible and work with us, but need a "usable" cp asap
... Also discussed I-204 and what they still need on that
... At the moment Text Subteam has more issues, with trickier coordinations, but we do seem to make progress everytime we talk
js: Expect to be done with review by this meeting next week
leif: Will help as I can
js: This is thanks to Leif for identifying images we should check
leif: Think have found a few I wonder about
jb: Perhaps we should have someone do this who lives and breathes alt, David?
jf: We also need to make sure we're consistent with Steve's authored Alt doc
... So, David, you can give feedback and check that we're in sync with the Alt doc?
jb: Noting that Rich posted to list yesterday about this, terse but on topic
js: ARIA believes it has finished rewrite of hidden section in ARIA doc esp UAIG 5.1.2
jb: Is 204 simply allowing ARIA to point to hidden content?
js: As I see it, yes
jb: It's an issue to be concerned about whether HTML is defining ARIA here, but it's not appropriate for a CP to address that
<David> scribe: David
jb: john concerned that one w3c
group speaking on another (HTML 5 on WAI ARIA) doesn't need
change proposal... 2nd... they didn't get what was being
proposed... do a realignment propsal, not a change proposal (we
could add to bottom of change proposal, note that it was a
change propsoal on another spec, not welcome, not
appropriate)by chair of that group
... invites John and Janina to talk about 204...
jf: willing to concede process
... problem here. choice of word hidden... but there is hidden (DOM) and hidden from view, but in DOM... CSS:non WAI AIRA Hidden, and and hidden not in DOM, but there is a way to tuck it out of site (CSS, aria described by in flow, but has usability problems)
LAURA: the spec should have some author guidance if there is ...
jf: nothing in Matts change proposal about the distinction
janina: I will write a change proposal, will JF pull yours for now
JF: yes I'll will pull it...
jb: I'll will withdraw mine as soon as you put in yours, concerned about timing
jf: we have until the 18th
janina: a sentence in 7.1 that
uses an exampe on Aria Describedby... I'll ask to have that
removed... that's the part of the speck that talks about
... user agent guide, we got the language right we think, covers everything, please check it...
jf: we need better author guidance
jb: can we move to next item
jb: do we pursue these ideas, or do we just stick with one clear direction, and talk about html.next
jb: temptations to extend it, Laura has a new issue request, tying to longdesc dependency... lief had an idea from last week...
jf: want to add direct relation to 203 video
jb: 203 was on the table a long time ago...
Janina: great questions, need to work through it, some for native solution, some think aria betr place for that... but we still don't have anything, not longdesc or describedAt, etc... we wasted lots of time, all this effort to put basic minimum back it.
janina, neet to just get Longdesc back
leif, i don't have anything on agenda, i withdrew my proposal
leif, lets just focus on Longdesc on image for now
<laura> I am not proposing postponing Issue-30. I am proposing resolving Issue 30 first.
<laura> 1. It is impossible to expand/modify an attribute if that attribute is obsolete.
<laura> 2. The HTML Chairs caused the delay of reinstating that attribute.
<laura> The HTML Chairs are responsible for the predicament.
laura: not proposing postponning Longdesc, let's resolve it and then talk about extending longdesc
jb: no time
Laura: not my problem, I didn't make this situation
jb: it's both our problems, but this is a new feature request after
going into last call...
Laura: I'm ready now.
jb: a consensus?
Janina: we have a few things where we are not clear on, such as two longsecs on a media
<laura> bye. gotta go now.
jb: maybe second last
... door is closed on this phase
... while it is not uncommon in other spec to have additional features... it is possible to do a second last call... 1) barn door on new features OR 2) no features...
<Judy> ...or 3) various things creeping in from various people
Jb: Longdesc possibilities = would like to use longdesc or described at (it's on question) need to get all requirements....another thing is can we use exisitng longdesc.... but we cannot use for 203, because one isn't enough... how do we technically manage that be able to Summary,
we could use longdesc on iframes, and summary (tables)
jb: wasn't longdesc on summary rejected
janina: yes, but we need post its
jf: because summary attribute was
rejected we though longdesc could be used... could be added to
a number of things (iframes, tables etc...) on one hnd, need to
make sure we have longdesc, but we need to do them
... we are boxed in because 30 has been in limbo
jb: let's park the extension of Longdesc
<janina> dm: We should certainly address additional use of longdesc if another last call
jb: want to queue up proposal ... can John 203, longdecription of poster of video
<JF_> * Short name (AccName) for the video - perhaps @alt, or aria-labelledby
<JF_> or aria-label.
<JF_> * Long Description (a.k.a. contextual description) for the VIDEO - perhaps
<JF_> @longdesc, or aria-describedby or aria-describedat.
<JF_> * Long Description (a.k.a. contextual description) for the IMAGE (when
<JF_> specified by @poster) - I have proposed <firstframe> a.k.a. <poster> which
<JF_> was rejected; currently in discussion with the ARIA WG on an aria-poster or
<JF_> aria-background attribute.
<JF_> * A linking mechanism for the verbatim transcript - I have proposed
<JF_> @transcript and/or <track kind="transcript">.
Janina: drop 203 transcript can we deffer to HTML.next so the separate poster catch... covered by aria
janina, can we get change proposal with short descp and longdesc, (as outcome of longdesc)
jf: that's a dependency
... would like to see alt added to video
janina, what's the recommendation
dm: don't think we should pursue @alt on video
janina: allow longdesc to go on video
janina, but needs dependecy on issue 30
jf: i don't know if that's the
... question is does longdesc belong in HTML 5... if LD chucked out then 203
... would be chucked out
jb: another way to phrase it...
chairs asking for something straightforward let's give to
... need to place dependency... on 30
jf: concerned that it will look like Laura's proposal to extend longdesc ... concerned chairs will try to deal with this before 30 and say "longdesc is not part of spec so nothing to talk about"
jb: I have two things 1) rewrite
203, 2) wait for Janina on 204,
... can't guarantee would like to come up with solution, if we don't make this fix to 203 it might get closed...
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/djb/jb/ Succeeded: s/jb: can't guarantee it wouldn't get screwed up, but as of yesterday, chairs would like to come up with solution, if we don't make this fix to 203 it might get closed...// Found Scribe: janina Inferring ScribeNick: janina Found Scribe: David Inferring ScribeNick: David Scribes: janina, David ScribeNicks: janina, David Default Present: John_Foliot, Janina, Leif, David_MacDonald, Judy, Laura_Carlson Present: John_Foliot Janina Leif David_MacDonald Judy Laura_Carlson Got date from IRC log name: 10 Apr 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/04/10-text-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]