<scribe> scribe: Jon

<MichaelC> scribeNick: jongund

JN: There were two items on the survey, and the people are not here who proposed them
... We could send the minutes to them

332

LG: Maybe it is fine, but it could be a topic of discussion
... There is no way to find out the original placeholder

JN: AT could do that and maybe a plug-in
... I see your concern, whether it is correct or not

LG: Clearly meets the spirit when it is there

JN: Does WCAG require the label must be visible?

LG: Not directly
... This is definitely 3.3.2

JN: This is not a 3.3.1

LG: You still need a label for a screen reader, maybe it is a 3.3.5 technqiue
... It seems more like 332
... This type of example is in 3.3.2 techniques

JN: It should always be in combination with a label
... Provide descriptive labels and one of the following
... Are you happy with your concerns of the place holder label disappearing?

LG: yes

JN: JG: I am not sure

JG: I could try testing it

<jamesn> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html

JN: There is a reference in the accessible description section to the use of @placeholder
... Not sure if actually supported
... @placeholder can be used for example values
... @placeholder is an example

<jamesn> The placeholder attribute represents a short hint (a word or short phrase) intended to aid the user with data entry. A hint could be a sample value or a brief description of the expected format.

<jamesn> The placeholder attribute should not be used as an alternative to a label.

LN: What could you use @placeholder for in WCAG 2.0, is the question

JN: @placeholder could be a visual lable and search button next to it
... Should be an HTML5 validation failure if you do not have a label
... Anything else on placeholder

<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/htmltechs-20120409/results

<jamesn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_HTML5_section_elements

Using HTML5 Section element

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/htmltechs-20120409/results#xsection

LG: Working on the test procedure would help with the technique

JG: Is that the proper use of ARTICLE?

LG: I not sure
... It is good if a test procedure can be used in isolation

Discuss this technique next week

JN: FTF meeting at Lyon, get more people involved
... Try to get some techniques written

LG: I will be there

JN: Josh will be there, I may be able to come

MC: People from other groups will be there, PF, Authoring

JN: The overlap ones are a big issue, there are mon/tues and thurs/fri

LG: I think we can make it a working session with an agenda, may attact participation
... We would need to have a detailed draft agenda soon

JN: MC what are the timeline?

MC: There is a survey now, I am looking when it closes
... 30 April is the deadline
... Difficult to backout if things don't work

JN: Who will be attending

LG: having an agenda will help

MC: We have enough people to fill time, it is a question of people participating

LG: Maybe we can get a discussion going

rrsagent draft, minutes

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: Jon
Found ScribeNick: jongund

WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: Cooper JG JN James_Nurthen Jon_Gunderson LG LN Loretta MC Marc_Johlic MichaelC P15 aaaa https jamesn marcjohlic scribeNick
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        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Regrets: Bruce_Bailey Joshue_O_Connor
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2012AprJun/0008.html
Got date from IRC log name: 09 Apr 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/04/09-html-techs-tf-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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