Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference -- 05 Apr 2012

<trackbot> Date: 05 April 2012

<George> trackbot, start telecon

<trackbot> Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 05 April 2012

<DanG> 691-aaaa is DanG

<luisBermudez> aagg is me

<scribe> Scribe: olyerickson

Materials published; congrats and thanks to everyone esp Sandro

<gatemezi> s/Sandrp/Sandro

<PhilA2> http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-dcat/ works

Comments from mhausenblas

Now that FPWD is out, move toward ISA (?) "alignment"

scribe: PhilA: core vocabs integrated next couple weeks
... ISA specs NOT currently in published versions of FPWDs

mhausenblas: Planning call req'd

PhilA2: makes sense
... needs to send mhausenblas something before WWW

<PhilA2> http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-people/ works

<PhilA2> Guess what http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-data-cube/

<PhilA2> And http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-org/

bhyland: Skip to "Org" agenda item

<PhilA2> http://www.w3.org/TR/gld-bp/ :-(

+1 bhyland to explain...

scribe: Weds during sweb coord meeting, paul groth mentioned multiple W3C groups with PROV concerns

PROV tie-ins

mhausenblas: What is the status of PROV?

bhyland: need to keep up with our liaison with PROV
... current status of PROV, not that far ahead

PhilA2: would like to be involved in that discussion

<bhyland> Paul Groth mentioned these references for our consideration:

<bhyland> [1] people: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/people/index.html

<bhyland> [2] org: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/org/index.html

<bhyland> [3] prov-dm: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-dm.html#component2

PhilA2: SPARQL 1.1 is about to bring up "prov" considerations

George: Org "speaks to" OPMV...

Last week's minutes

<mhausenblas> +1

<gatemezi> +1

<Mike_Pendleton> +1

<BenediktKaempgen> +1

<luisBermudez> +1

George: Sorry to miss "geo work" discussion last week
... any further discussion/comments

<bhyland> closing loop on coordinating mhausenblas, phila2, luc and paul groth, see http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/CG/track/actions/8

<PhilA2> olyerickson: Regarding the provenance discussion... I'm trying to understand what the issue is? Was Paul concerned that there are lots of parallel efforts on provenance, or people, or what?

Wrap up from last week's GeoLinkData Initiative ...

bhyland: explanation of PROV question

<PhilA2> bhyland: AIUI, Paul in particular, they invented "agent" and it has a lot of people attributes. We're up to 4 different ways to capture people-related info just from W3C

bhyland: up to 4 ways to describe people
... need to coordinate
... bhyland tasked with bringing together the various parties
... is there common ground, or should there be separate paths

<sandro> (Sorry I'm late)

bhyland: can/should "people" be simpler

<PhilA2> Someone said schema.org ? http://philarcher.org/diary/2012/danbri/

bhyland: example schema.org w.r.t simplicity 9and role in packaging/marketing)

What to do w.r.t. geo vocabulary

George: many esp govt would like to put a "stake in the ground"

<bhyland> To remind people who were present last week (and weren't), Boris gave a great talk on work on map4rdf, see http://oegdev.dia.fi.upm.es/projects/map4rdf/

George: poll the group?

PhilA2: Trying to notice what is going on, while being concerned about strengthing this group
... BUT we do have optional item

<gatemezi> @bhyland --Thanks for the link

PhilA2: there is much well-done current work in this area
... thinks, OGC's (??) job
... yet people bring it to use

<bhyland> Per PhilA2's reference, see http://geovocab.org/doc/neogeo/

<gatemezi> +1 to PhilA

PhilA2: GLD is in a position to consider, yet we have it as an opt. on our charter

BartvanLeeuwen: concern over amt of work reqd to get it done
... should at least reference the relevant vocabs
... shouldn't write our own recommendation
... there are "smarter" people to do that
... best practices should be able to point to other references

<PhilA2> ref: Open Geospatial Consortium http://www.opengeospatial.org/

BartvanLeeuwen: but maybe not...

George: If there *is* energy, there is interest in the community
... there's lots of innovation going on in this area

bhyland: ... BP doc focusing on what SHOULD be done
... BP not about "how"
... rec'd of vocabs is new ground for W3C

<PhilA2> I'm the last person to object to FOAF!

bhyland: GLD approach to rec'd vocabs is new
... need to be careful to not go beyond out core expertise

luisBermudez: Geo vocab standard will be published soon
... important to find way to integrate e.g. geoSPARQL, etc

<PhilA2> luisBermudez: geoSPARQL will be publicly available in June (from OGC)

luisBermudez: luisBermudez the problem: geoSPARQL not a publicly available standard (will be)

<BenediktKaempgen> +q

PhilA2: GLD should look at it "a little later" in the year
... FOAF is now under the wing of DC

<bhyland> @PhilA2 thanks for clarifying/reminding me re: ISA People & FOAF embrace

PhilA2: thought question: Will FOAF be around next year?

<sandro> DanG, the reference was to Dan Brickley, co-parent of FOAF.

<danbri> while we're on topic, can I draw attention to some other People vocab things from this week?

<bhyland> @george, what URL would you like me to add to agenda from HR14 proposal discussion?

<danbri> see https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/opensocial-and-gadgets-spec

BenediktKaempgen: Talked to supervisor, tells us that that community has tried to consolidate, question of what GLD process will be for integrating in neogeo (neogeo?)

Thanks to sandro for the big push last night

<bhyland> +1 thanks to Sandro

<danbri> opensocial is a tech for making social networks, and is linked to PortableContacts, a vcard-based addressbook format. opensocial people are wondering how to address new requirements for modelling organizations, scientific info etc.

<danbri> e.g .https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/opensocial-and-gadgets-spec/g3NyGn-8Avs

is there an announcement that some of us are missing?

sandro: What does it mean for one vocab to "use" another

<danbri> neogeo ~ http://nuts.geovocab.org/id/nuts0.html http://nuts.geovocab.org/ ?

PhilA2: Issue of alignment of e.g. foaf:Person with schema.org equivalent, etc
... See PhilA2 blog post (today)
... motivated PhilA2 to think foaf should be retired...

<gatemezi> @LuisBermudez: could you know any triple store that have implemented part of geoSPARQL requirements?

sandro: can't recommend The Government to use vocab that can't be used in perpetuity

<PhilA2> smotivated PhilA2 to think a day may come when foaf could be retired.../motivated PhilA2 to think a day may come when foaf could be retired.../

<PhilA2> My blog post http://philarcher.org/diary/2012/danbri/

<bhyland> PhilA2: There may a day in our community that some sacred cows should be retired …

bhyland: It's a concept called "social responsibility"
... when you publish "content" you are making a commitment or 'social contract'
... for the foreseeable future
... BP must educate/"warn" adopters
... vocabs should be from authoritative sources that make commitment

sandro: doesn't agree
... W3C makes a commitment to e.g. DCAT
... details will change, there is a process and W3C stands behind it

<Zakim> sandro, you wanted to disagree with olyerickson

<PhilA2> olyerickson: You, Sandro, were right to disagree with my words

<PhilA2> olyerickson: An organisation needs to know what it is adopting

<bhyland> Sandro: Gov'ts should be able to count on key vocabs, such as DCAT, in perpetuity.

<PhilA2> ... e.g. the current version of DCAT, recognising that it may evolve

<PhilA2> olyerickson: They need to recognise that by using a vocan they become part of that community

<sandro> +1 olyerickson Yes, people adopting a tech become part of the stewardship community, when things work well. That's sustainable.

<bhyland> johnerickson: Gov't need to recognize their role as stewards of vocabs [and data sets] that they publish.

<PhilA2> ... they can't wine about the fact that current browsers don't working with HTML1 any more

we are in fervent agreement

(if not using the most articulate language)

sandro: brings us back to foaf

<mhausenblas> Michael: I have to apologise, need to run now (need to do some fire-fighting, unforeseen incident that came up …)

sandro: might have a situation where W3C doesn't control the namespace, dereferencing, etc
... need to ensure namespace is part of the community stewardship
... community needs to have control

PhilA2: agrees with sandro

<sandro> sandro: We should only use namespaces for which we have en enforcable commitment to respect some legitimate stewardship/community process

PhilA2: "DanBri under a bus" problem has created adoption problems for foaf in the past, seems to be resolved now
... key issue is foaf:Person and schema.org allow imaginary people

HR14

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: httpRange-14

<danbri> (the dictionaries definition of 'person' allows imaginary people too) (imagine a dictionary where each term had 'except for pretend X's...'?)

George: any views/thoughts?

<danbri> btw ... if GLD have expectations re what long-term preservation commitments you'd like from schema.org, do please write them down and pass them along

sandro: (laughs)
... gave up in 2003
... proposed 303 but has given up

<gatemezi> I was reading also this post of Jenni http://www.jenitennison.com/blog/node/168

<PhilA2> olyerickson: I've been watching in the way you watch a NASCAR race expecting a crash. A real concern is implementation efficiency

<PhilA2> ... there are existential issues but the practical ones are perhaps more key - redirection, caching and so on

<PhilA2> ... there are some proposals around 3xx and 200/207

<PhilA2> ... I really haven't seen a convergence

Current state: Open for proposals

<PhilA2> George: It's open for proposals on possible conversion

<bhyland> olyerickson: "I'm not interested from a fascinated academic perspective, rather a grouchy implementer."

;)

bhyland: jenit is soliciting proposals
... trying to do it sensibly
... reaching out to stakeholders
... jenit trying to get something done
... put something in writing, not "pissy emails"

not(sandro) : interested in concern over performance

scribe: are there designs that deliver performance which doesn't violate semantics of 303

how to engage: write it up, submit

Wrap-up

George: Interesting how when GLD people get interested and start to engage, their Inboxes get flooded

Agenda items for next week

(none offered)

Adjorned

<gatemezi> Thanks George and olyerickson..

'Have a great day'

<BartvanLeeuwen> thx and bye !

<BenediktKaempgen> Thanks

<DanG> Bye

- DRAFT -

Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference

05 Apr 2012

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