See also: IRC log
SH: There is a discussion about the content of
"discussion" tab
... two aspects we could clear up quickly
... (1) copyright policy
we can put the whole copyright document or point out to the license
SLH: this was suggested by W3C legal council
... the issue is that we are going to quote and use the papers in the note, we
want to make clear that this information can be included in the note
... when paper contribute to the discussion, we expect this will be used on
the note so this extra text aimed at covering such situation
SH: will authors be attributed in this quoting or citation?
SLH: yes
<sharper> The Contributor further agrees that any derivative works of this contribution prepared by the W3C shall be solely owned by the W3C.
SH: this is the bit that should go in the end of
the copyright notice
... what people think?
PT: would it make it easier if we publish in ACM with their copyright policies?
SH: we are on W3C so it seems reasonable to stay under their umbrella
SLH: we can consider further options
... but primary venue is W3C
<sharper> The Contributor further agrees that any derivative works of this contribution prepared by the W3C shall be solely owned by the W3C.
SH: my only concern about this sentence is about
what "derivative work" means
... does it mean that I can put this on a conference?
SLH: it only covers to work prepared by the W3C
MV: what does this "prepare" mean?
SLH: you could substitute it by "written"
RESOLUTION: we add the following test to the copyright "The Contributor further agrees that any derivative works of this contribution prepared by the W3C shall be solely owned by the W3C."
<sharper> For one, I disagree with the statement made in the first sentence as it currently stands. It sounds too absolute. For instance, for me mobile devices are not (yet?) the primary form of accessing the Web.
<sharper> Also the second sentence probably needs to be looked at more closely to avoid exacerbating frequent stereotypes and cliches. Are only business people in Europe 24/7 on the go? Numerically there may be more business people 24/7 on the go in India than in Europe.
<sharper> Finally, the combination of these two (first) sentences of the Call do not give me the picture of what the rest of the Call actually covers. In fact, it seems to be going in a completely different directions. I suggest revisiting the purpose of these two sentences and, if they are deemed as essential, to consider them for the Background section. This would entail revising both sections accordingly.
<shawn> ACTION: Shawn check if proceedings get on Google scholar [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/28-rd-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-15 - Check if proceedings get on Google scholar [on Shawn Henry - due 2012-04-04].
SH: these are the bits Shadi disagrees with
as far as I'm concerned current proceedings are not get on Google Scholar
PT: Shadi's first comment is arguable, I'm not sure statisticswise how it is, but I'm not entirely sure...in terms of numbers I do not know
SH: I wrote this sentence and it is technically correct
PT: does it really matter?
SH: I wrote some of this...I'm perfectly happy to remove...I'd like to give the idea that is not only about smartphones and solves problems of literacy or payments in Africa..there are not only accessibility problems...
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to suggest: Mobile devices are the primary form of accessing the Web in many places around the globe.
<peter> great!
SLH: I have a suggestion: "mobile devices are the primary way of accessing the way in many places in the world"
<shadi> [[I think the term "primary" needs to be clarified - do we mean number of connections, time spent, work done, ...?]]
<sharper> +1
SH: are we happy with that?
+1
<vivienne> +1
<sharper> +1
<peter> +2
<Yehya> +1
<yeliz> +1
<shadi> -1
<vivienne> I'm okay with it as it stands
SH: what people think about the second sentence?
<peter> hmm
<shawn> slh: don't think it belongs in introduction. OK in background.
<christos> Sorry everybody... just as I was going to phone I received an important call and have to leave ASAP... goodbye
<shadi> [[also suggest saying "in many situations" rather than "in many places around the world", as use of mobile devices is not really geographically based]]
<vivienne> we could say 'a major form'
SLH: Shadi has a concern about "primary"
any other word for primary?
<vivienne> major
<yeliz> I don't mind either way
<peter> don't see the gain - primary sounds good IMO
are we keeping "primary" or moving to "major"
<vivienne> important
<yeliz> primary sounds good to me as well
<shadi> [[the question is, what do people mean by "primary" or " major"?]]
I don't mind
<vivienne> growing in importance?
SH: does anybody think that this 1st sentence is not clear?
<peter> Since the background goes into detail about the intro - think the first paragraph is good.
<shadi> [[I could live with "primary"/"major" if we say "situations" rather than "places"]]
SH: in the developing countries it is a fact that this is the primary way
<yeliz> I agree as well
VC: my husband was working in Africa, nobody had a computer but all accessed the web via mobile phone
<shadi> [[how about something along the lines "mobile devices are growing in importance ... in many places primary form"?]]
<shadi> [[otherwise we risk sounding disociated with some readers]]
<peter> sounds like we're tweaking - vote to keep it as is
<yeliz> I agree with Simon
<vivienne> okay to leave it as it is now
<yeliz> I agree with vivienne
RESOLVE: the first sentence is being changed as
per Shawn suggestion and the group agrees on it
... the second sentence is removed as per Shadi's email
RESOLUTION: the first sentence is
being changed as per member:Shawn suggestion and the group agrees on
it
... the second sentence is removed as per member:Shadi's email
SH: any other comments?
<peter> Further open research questions and ideas have been identified and we welcome contributions related to any of these too.
RESOLUTION: we add the following test to the copyright "The Contributor further agrees that any derivative works of this contribution prepared by the W3C shall be solely owned by the W3C".
PT: why are we pointing to the wiki page in the call?
SH: in the previous call it was to have some backing content
SLH: I agree with Peter, in the metrics symposium we had lots of stuff but now we don't
<shadi> [[agree with PTs question -- should only do if we have enough content to point to]]
<yeliz> 1
<sharper> Should we delete 'Further open research questions and ideas have been identified and we welcome contributions related to any of these too. '
<yeliz> +1
<sharper> +1
<shawn> +1
<Yehya> +1
<peter> +1
<shadi> +1
RESOLUTION: we resolve to delete "Further open research questions and ideas have been identified and we welcome contributions related to any of these too" on the call
PT: another point, are we including apps in the call? Shall we organise a specific symposium on apps
<yeliz> I think it depends on the papers submitted
PT: is there any intention ingoing further
<yeliz> :)
SH: we have to understand what sort of papers we
are getting and then decides
... the charter ends by the end of June
... it is unlikely that in the following 5-6 seminars we revisit the topic
... however, if we are re-chartered that is feasible
<shawn> +1 for making clear this include applications
<shadi> [[I think the sentence "Also the complexity of the web content and applications provided via mobile devices has become increasingly sophisticated" alludes to apps being part of the Call]]
<yeliz> Do we want to add it to backgorund?
<yeliz> for example, this sentence = The mobile world is rapidly evolving with increasingly sophisticated devices, platforms, APIs, and web browsers=
PT: mobile web applications are still new...
<shadi> [[we did not get into the discussion of web-based vs native apps though, this could be one of the specific questions]]
<yeliz> can be changed =The mobile world is rapidly evolving with increasingly sophisticated devices, platforms, APIs, applications and web browsers=
<yeliz> I mean we can go through this call and make sure add applications
SH: this is the exciting part...we don't want to lose the "application" aspects
<yeliz> "applications" are referenced
SH: this is what we definitely want to do will potentially produce lots of research
PT: I can think about that and reflect on the wiki
<shawn> ack
SH: if we have a sentence just now that'd be great so that we can resolve it today
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say from the Background section, delete "The symposium will be held on 30 May 2012; paper deadline will close on 18 April 2012." (repeated from intro)
SLH: there is some repeated content
<peter> +1
+1
<vivienne> +1
<shawn> +1
<shadi> +1
YY: I agree with PT's comment, he is right, web apps are becoming more popular..why don'y we make sure that the word app is evident?
<shawn> [[ Background second sentence already has: Also the complexity of the web content and applications ...]]
let's do that
+1
<vivienne> +1
<Yehya> +1
YY: background 1st sentence
... objectives - research questions
<shadi> [[I suggest adding a question relating to apps too, for example what accessibility support is provided in native vs web-based mobile apps]]
<peter> yup
<sharper> good one Shadi
<shawn> [ laughter as Simon replies to shadi ;)
<sharper> Yes peter is working on thsi now
<yeliz> Is there any work in W3C regarding mobile Web applications that we need to list?
<yeliz> sorry, we got that
<yeliz> http://www.w3.org/TR/mwabp/
<yeliz> :)
<peter> How about this for sentence one Objectives and ..: The primary objective of this symposium is to gather, analyze, and discuss practical experience with mobile web accessibility with an emphasis on content and applications.
<peter> Also under the research points could we add a bullet about Preferences/Personalization?
SLH: can we get rid of acronyms?
<vivienne> I agree, we should write this in full the first time
<shawn> write out acronyms in the background
<peter> (But programmers love acronyms!! :)
<shadi> [[do not particularly like the "emphasis" approach -- seems excluding to other potential contributions]]
SLH: if you want to, I can give you her BBC adrdess, it'll be great to have her
SH: acronyms changed in the background...
... any other changes?
RESOLUTION: the group agrees on the call for papers apart from the dates
SLH: once we change the dates when do we think
this'll be going?
... maybe next week
SH: I don't to rush anybody, it will gives some days to decide on
<shadi> [[I really suggest "Mobile devices are the primary form of accessing the Web in many places around the globe" -> "Mobile devices are becoming increasingly important and are already the primary form of accessing the Web in many parts of the world"]]
<shawn> SLH: Editors have sent the HTML version to Shadi?
<shadi> yes, thanks
<shawn> Markel: Yes. Although not sure if decided how to reference the papers.
<peter> sure
<shawn> sure
<sharper> OK with 'Mobile devices are becoming increasingly important and are already the primary form of accessing the Web in many parts of the world'
didn't we agree that "primary" was backed by evidence?
<sharper> +1
<vivienne> +1
<peter> +1
<Yehya> +1
<yeliz> I don't really see how this improves the text
<yeliz> but I am ok
<yeliz> +1
<sharper> I will
<shawn> [[ don't really love "Mobile devices are becoming increasingly important " but Ok with it ]]
I'll be there
<vivienne> +1
<shawn> I'll be there
<peter> Will be there but fashionably late Monday morning
lol
<peter> NOOOO
<peter> I'll be there for Wednesday at least :(
drinks are every night
<shadi> [[markel: both statements are technically the same but trying to be less confusing -- just an attempt, happy to try other wording to that same effect]]
<peter> lol
<vivienne> I'll be in that
+q
<sharper> Markel is General Chair of W4A
<shadi> Markel++
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask goals and to ask outreach? just f2f gelling?
<vivienne> I'm staying for the week (getting in on Friday night) so anything if fine with me
<vivienne> oops, 'is'
<shawn> SLH: If outreach, then good to do something during the camp.
<shawn> Markel: maybe Tuesday evening
<yeliz> Can I bring my daughter
<yeliz> to this dinner
it's totally unofficial
<shawn> SH: RDWG dinner - open to annyone
+1
<shawn> +1
<vivienne> +1
<sharper> +1
<peter> Impressive work Simon getting the call done-ish
<shawn> ACTION: Shawn consider "announcing": "come meet up with RDWG folks at dinner on Tue" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/28-rd-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-16 - Consider "announcing": "come meet up with RDWG folks at dinner on Tue" [on Shawn Henry - due 2012-04-04].
<shadi> re call: can i propose "to discuss these difficulties and possible solutions" -> "to discuss these challenges and possible solutions"
<shawn> yes, please to Shadi's suggestion
<shawn> change difficulties to challenges
<sharper> Thanks Shadi
<shawn> ^^^ simon
<sharper> changed to challenges
<shadi> thanks!
<sharper> No problem Shadi.
<sharper> See you next week