16 Apr 2012


Char James-Tanny, Jason Kiss, Cynthia Shelly
Cynthia Shelly


not able to get in on the phone. is anyone else in?

<jkiss> nope -- "The call centre is restricted at this time"

I think the time change messed it up. just emailed

Let's do it in IRC for now.

Jason, have you had a chance to make any updates?

<jkiss> no. I've not made any updates. Also, a number of

oh no.

have you had a chance to figure out the history in mercurial?

figuring out what happened and how to merge is probably

<jkiss> Yeah. I just don't know how to revert to an earlier

<jkiss> yes ;)

Mike Smith is probably the best person to talk to.


<jkiss> okay. will flick him a note.


I haven't had a chance to make any changes either.

There were some discussions at the PF F2F that might

<jkiss> Other than that, I've been taking a serious look at

I have a bunch of action items wrt the ARIA version of

how so?

<jkiss> Especially if link is only content in <summary>

what happens?

<jkiss> activating <summary> also fires the nested link if


sounds like something we should spec...

<jkiss> nested links not passed to a11y tree in Safari, but

<jkiss> Has to do with Browse Mode cursor and where it lands

Intersting... I'll have to see what happens with win8

(since we don't have browse mode)

Is that only in JAWS, or other SR too?

<jkiss> JAWS, NVDA have issue firing nested link that is first

<jkiss> Window-Eyes doesn't do it

interesting... this is a place where maybe we could

I'm trying to think of anything on the desktop where

<jkiss> I know that's how Steve sees it.

<jkiss> I think there's a problem there, but see

<jkiss> I just can't come up with a really good example of


so, it sounds like there are a couple issues here...

1) do we use links inside summary in our doc?

<jkiss> the comparison to be made is with <button>, esp. as

<summary> takes role="button"

2) Do we consider links inside summary an authoring error?

3) what should screen-readers do when they encounter

<jkiss> 1) I think so, at least where the link is the only

1) I should have phrased that "should we use..."

4) mapping is easy, as the AAPI tree can support it, so

<jkiss> 2) It's permitted by the spec, but Steve has proposed

<jkiss> 2) As I hinted, I kinda think it might be useful, but

2) are there other places where it's disallowed? for

<jkiss> 2)<button><a href></button> is not allowed: spec says

hmmm... that may be the model we want to follow

<jkiss> 2) which is why the question of what makes <summary> so

I think the reasoning is that you might want a

<details> fly-out tagged to a large area of a page, which might have

<jkiss> 3) Because of role="button", Webkit flattens the

<summary> content; IE and FF pass them as accessible link objects to

<jkiss> 3) What appropriate SR behaviour is not clear to

I can see arguments for doing either when you get that

unless it's for back-compat?

<jkiss> Don't know reasoning behind allowing interactive

I could see doing <summary><button>yada

but, it could be an oversight. I guess we'll find out

hi Char. we don't have a phone connection due to time

is ok

we were talking about whether it makes sense to have

<jkiss> In the meantime, what about the nested links in the

<jkiss> I think it's useful to have the links handy for

Can you design a different way to manage that? Could

and just have the summary be <h2> or whatever level they are

<jkiss> the <summary>'s just a <summary>

<jkiss> And yep, can include the link in the <details>, though

<jkiss> not that this is a big deal

that seems like it could work. can you try that, and

I think we should also offer guidance on mapping that

Can you put in a bug?

<jkiss> ACTION: jkiss to move nested links from <summary> to [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/21-aapi-minutes#action01]


<jkiss> ACTION: jkiss to add bug to mapping for <summary> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/21-aapi-minutes#action02]

Char, what have you been up to?

<jkiss> FYI, I've filed bugs with both NVDA and JAWS on their

<Char> Um...well, nothing for AAPI. Travel for the better part

thanks, Jason.

<Char> All are open on my system so I don't forget.

Char, that's ok. I've been in similar circumstances.

<jkiss> And am publishing an article on the screen reader and

jason, that's great. send me a link when it's up.

Char, is there anything on the wiki? what's the url?

<Char> Wiki is at www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/AAPI_Mapping. So

OK. I think your highest priorty should be to get the

<Char> yes :-)


Do you think you can have that for next week/

<Char> Yes.

<Char> So my to-do item is to move the to-do list to the wiki.


Want to give me one off the list you have?

i think I'll only have time for 1

<Char> Have you already set up BugZilla for AAPI? And added

nope. I guess that's my todo.

do we want to have it both in the wiki and bugzilla?

<Char> I think my master list is a bit behind, but I'll get

<Char> Do we want...??? in both wiki and bugzilla? The to-do

sorry, got interupted...

I'm wondering if we need both a to-do lsit and

but, I guess, copy what you have to the wiki, and then

<jkiss> Isn't bugzilla specifically for bugs identified from

<Char> I don't think we need both...I think it would be easier

<jkiss> Dealing with specifig bugs can be items in the to-do list?

Ok. lets start with the to-do list, and if there's

I will get bugzilla set up this week. probably won't

<Char> k

so, sounds like we all know what to do next...

does anyone think they need more tasks?

<jkiss> :)

<Char> Not right now :)

<Char> I'll send an email when wiki is done, also minutes from


<jkiss> I did not

<Char> zaim, who's here?

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: jkiss to add bug to mapping for <summary> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/21-aapi-minutes#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: jkiss to move nested links from <summary> to [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/21-aapi-minutes#action01]
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2012/04/16 16:57:37 $