IRC log of text on 2012-03-13
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 17:04:00 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #text
- 17:04:00 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/13-text-irc
- 17:04:05 [Judy]
- zakim, room for 6?
- 17:04:07 [Zakim]
- ok, Judy; conference Team_(text)17:04Z scheduled with code 2119 (A11Y) for 60 minutes until 1804Z
- 17:04:34 [Zakim]
- Team_(text)17:04Z has now started
- 17:04:36 [Zakim]
- +Judy
- 17:04:37 [Zakim]
- +??P5
- 17:04:41 [Zakim]
- -??P5
- 17:04:43 [Zakim]
- +??P5
- 17:05:04 [Zakim]
- +John_Foliot
- 17:05:17 [janina]
- zakim, ??P5 is Janina
- 17:05:17 [Zakim]
- +Janina; got it
- 17:06:52 [janina]
- scribe: janina
- 17:08:21 [Judy]
- agenda+ PFWG ARIA task force report, including update on future thoughts about aria describedAT, and implications (or not) on longdesc and on issue 204
- 17:08:21 [Judy]
- agenda+ some thoughts about further revisions on meta-name generator proposal; background links:
- 17:08:21 [Judy]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0451.html
- 17:08:21 [Judy]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/meta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming
- 17:08:21 [Judy]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0237.html
- 17:08:23 [Judy]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Feb/0141.html
- 17:08:25 [Judy]
- agenda+ confirm CP revisions for WG location of alt guidance http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt
- 17:08:27 [Judy]
- agenda+ confirm status up to date at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status
- 17:08:29 [Judy]
- agenda+ confirm next meeting; identify next scribe; adjourn
- 17:08:59 [Judy]
- zakim, take up next
- 17:08:59 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "PFWG ARIA task force report, including update on future thoughts about aria describedAT, and implications (or not) on longdesc and on issue 204" taken up [from Judy]
- 17:10:36 [janina]
- Janina: PF looked at the Issue-204 page and has no problem with the suggested exemption as stated
- 17:11:04 [janina]
- Janina: However, we also did not see that it did anything to make DescribedBy an acceptable alternative for longdesc.
- 17:11:21 [janina]
- Janina: We see 204 is a nice to have, that's completely orthagonal to @longdesc
- 17:11:36 [janina]
- Janina: We continue to se DescribedBy as inappropriate for longdesc
- 17:12:03 [janina]
- Janina: We did also agree on several documentation clarifications to help the HTML-WG reach appropriate conclusions about ARIA
- 17:13:08 [Judy]
- John: My concern is that if we allow describing mechanisms to point to hidden content, it becomes dangerous the moment it is combined with tab order focus.
- 17:13:13 [Judy]
- Janina: agreed
- 17:13:26 [Judy]
- John: pls clarify face to face discussion on that?
- 17:13:47 [Judy]
- Janina: our clarifications in the documentation will indeed directly address that so that it will work
- 17:15:44 [Judy]
- John: pls be more specific about how pointing to hidden content will work when combined with tab order content? they are mixing and matching at-hidden, and aria-hidden. if that hidden content has anything beyond string text, you create an interaction problem for screen reader users
- 17:16:04 [Judy]
- Janina: true, but....
- 17:17:58 [JF]
- Judy: concerned about messaging from PF about pointing to hidden content
- 17:19:20 [janina]
- jf: Issue-204 concerns both HTML and ARIA features together
- 17:19:53 [janina]
- judy: So ther're several issues, it doesn't help longdesc because it doesn't solve rich text
- 17:20:03 [janina]
- jf: also it's messing with ARIA specification
- 17:21:11 [janina]
- john: putting longdesc aside ... concerned that namely multiple ways of hiding content
- 17:24:46 [JF]
- I have 3 concerns: Process issue (Issue 204 talks about aria-hidden), issue aroudn pointing to "rich-text", and messaging problems (re: feedback from PF F2F)
- 17:28:30 [janina]
- judy: What's the status of 204 and longdesc
- 17:28:43 [janina]
- john: Extention for Jonas to Mar 10
- 17:28:56 [janina]
- john: on 23:30 Mar 10 Matt put up a CP
- 17:29:26 [janina]
- john: I've asked for time to respond with a cp
- 17:30:29 [JF]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/204
- 17:43:07 [janina]
- general discussion that longdesc needs a fair hearing and resolution
- 17:45:19 [JF]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/DeprecateLongdesc
- 17:48:26 [Judy]
- "This will not eliminate the need for longdesc because we cannot introduce tab-focusable content is hidden from sighted users; and because you will not get rich content if you hide it."
- 17:49:04 [Judy]
- s/content is hidden/content that is hidden/
- 17:49:41 [Judy]
- zakim, take up next item
- 17:49:41 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "some thoughts about further revisions on meta-name generator proposal; background links:" taken up [from Judy]
- 17:50:25 [Judy]
- agenda?
- 17:50:44 [Judy]
- zakim, take up item 3
- 17:50:44 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "confirm CP revisions for WG location of alt guidance http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt" taken up [from Judy]
- 17:51:14 [janina]
- judy: This is about moving the Alt Text doc to WCAG WG space
- 17:51:36 [janina]
- judy: Rejected by HTMl Chairs, but still on our table
- 17:59:08 [janina]
- discussion that judy will address with steve issues on location of the alt doc
- 18:02:18 [Zakim]
- -Judy
- 18:20:51 [JF]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#include_elements
- 18:51:13 [Zakim]
- -John_Foliot
- 18:51:14 [Zakim]
- Team_(text)17:04Z has ended
- 18:51:14 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Judy, John_Foliot, Janina
- 18:51:28 [janina]
- zakim, bye
- 18:51:28 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #text
- 18:51:37 [janina]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:51:37 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/13-text-minutes.html janina
- 18:52:05 [janina]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 18:52:11 [janina]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:52:11 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/13-text-minutes.html janina