17:04:00 RRSAgent has joined #text 17:04:00 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/13-text-irc 17:04:05 zakim, room for 6? 17:04:07 ok, Judy; conference Team_(text)17:04Z scheduled with code 2119 (A11Y) for 60 minutes until 1804Z 17:04:34 Team_(text)17:04Z has now started 17:04:36 +Judy 17:04:37 +??P5 17:04:41 -??P5 17:04:43 +??P5 17:05:04 +John_Foliot 17:05:17 zakim, ??P5 is Janina 17:05:17 +Janina; got it 17:06:52 scribe: janina 17:08:21 agenda+ PFWG ARIA task force report, including update on future thoughts about aria describedAT, and implications (or not) on longdesc and on issue 204 17:08:21 agenda+ some thoughts about further revisions on meta-name generator proposal; background links: 17:08:21 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0451.html 17:08:21 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/meta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming 17:08:21 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0237.html 17:08:23 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Feb/0141.html 17:08:25 agenda+ confirm CP revisions for WG location of alt guidance http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt 17:08:27 agenda+ confirm status up to date at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status 17:08:29 agenda+ confirm next meeting; identify next scribe; adjourn 17:08:59 zakim, take up next 17:08:59 agendum 1. "PFWG ARIA task force report, including update on future thoughts about aria describedAT, and implications (or not) on longdesc and on issue 204" taken up [from Judy] 17:10:36 Janina: PF looked at the Issue-204 page and has no problem with the suggested exemption as stated 17:11:04 Janina: However, we also did not see that it did anything to make DescribedBy an acceptable alternative for longdesc. 17:11:21 Janina: We see 204 is a nice to have, that's completely orthagonal to @longdesc 17:11:36 Janina: We continue to se DescribedBy as inappropriate for longdesc 17:12:03 Janina: We did also agree on several documentation clarifications to help the HTML-WG reach appropriate conclusions about ARIA 17:13:08 John: My concern is that if we allow describing mechanisms to point to hidden content, it becomes dangerous the moment it is combined with tab order focus. 17:13:13 Janina: agreed 17:13:26 John: pls clarify face to face discussion on that? 17:13:47 Janina: our clarifications in the documentation will indeed directly address that so that it will work 17:15:44 John: pls be more specific about how pointing to hidden content will work when combined with tab order content? they are mixing and matching at-hidden, and aria-hidden. if that hidden content has anything beyond string text, you create an interaction problem for screen reader users 17:16:04 Janina: true, but.... 17:17:58 Judy: concerned about messaging from PF about pointing to hidden content 17:19:20 jf: Issue-204 concerns both HTML and ARIA features together 17:19:53 judy: So ther're several issues, it doesn't help longdesc because it doesn't solve rich text 17:20:03 jf: also it's messing with ARIA specification 17:21:11 john: putting longdesc aside ... concerned that namely multiple ways of hiding content 17:24:46 I have 3 concerns: Process issue (Issue 204 talks about aria-hidden), issue aroudn pointing to "rich-text", and messaging problems (re: feedback from PF F2F) 17:28:30 judy: What's the status of 204 and longdesc 17:28:43 john: Extention for Jonas to Mar 10 17:28:56 john: on 23:30 Mar 10 Matt put up a CP 17:29:26 john: I've asked for time to respond with a cp 17:30:29 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/204 17:43:07 general discussion that longdesc needs a fair hearing and resolution 17:45:19 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/DeprecateLongdesc 17:48:26 "This will not eliminate the need for longdesc because we cannot introduce tab-focusable content is hidden from sighted users; and because you will not get rich content if you hide it." 17:49:04 s/content is hidden/content that is hidden/ 17:49:41 zakim, take up next item 17:49:41 agendum 2. "some thoughts about further revisions on meta-name generator proposal; background links:" taken up [from Judy] 17:50:25 agenda? 17:50:44 zakim, take up item 3 17:50:44 agendum 3. "confirm CP revisions for WG location of alt guidance http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt" taken up [from Judy] 17:51:14 judy: This is about moving the Alt Text doc to WCAG WG space 17:51:36 judy: Rejected by HTMl Chairs, but still on our table 17:59:08 discussion that judy will address with steve issues on location of the alt doc 18:02:18 -Judy 18:20:51 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#include_elements 18:51:13 -John_Foliot 18:51:14 Team_(text)17:04Z has ended 18:51:14 Attendees were Judy, John_Foliot, Janina 18:51:28 zakim, bye 18:51:28 Zakim has left #text 18:51:37 rrsagent, make minutes 18:51:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/13-text-minutes.html janina 18:52:05 rrsagent, make log public 18:52:11 rrsagent, make minutes 18:52:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/13-text-minutes.html janina