IRC log of text on 2012-02-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:01:19 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #text
18:01:19 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/21-text-irc
18:01:36 [janina]
rrsagent, make log public
18:01:43 [janina]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:01:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/21-text-minutes.html janina
18:01:53 [janina]
zakim, who's here?
18:01:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P0
18:01:55 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, janina, Zakim
18:02:05 [janina]
zakim, ??P0 is Janina
18:02:05 [Zakim]
+Janina; got it
18:02:14 [janina]
zakim, agenda?
18:02:14 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
18:02:16 [Zakim]
3. discuss CP for WG location of alt guidance, and recommend for TF support as appropriate http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt [from janina]
18:02:16 [Zakim]
4. discuss CP for figcaption [from janina]
18:02:16 [Zakim]
5. confirm status up to date at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status [from janina]
18:02:16 [Zakim]
6. note any procedural issues needing clarification [from janina]
18:02:17 [Zakim]
7. confirm next meeting; identify next scribe; adjourn [from janina]
18:02:53 [janina]
zakim, remove 3
18:02:53 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'remove 3', janina
18:03:02 [janina]
zakim, drop item 3
18:03:02 [Zakim]
agendum 3, discuss CP for WG location of alt guidance, and recommend for TF support as appropriate http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt, dropped
18:03:19 [janina]
zakim, drop item 4
18:03:19 [Zakim]
agendum 4, discuss CP for figcaption, dropped
18:03:23 [janina]
zakim, drop item 5
18:03:23 [Zakim]
agendum 5, confirm status up to date at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status, dropped
18:03:26 [janina]
zakim, drop item 6
18:03:26 [Zakim]
agendum 6, note any procedural issues needing clarification, dropped
18:03:28 [janina]
zakim, drop item 7
18:03:28 [Zakim]
agendum 7, confirm next meeting; identify next scribe; adjourn, dropped
18:03:38 [janina]
zakim, agenda?
18:03:38 [Zakim]
I see nothing remaining on the agenda
18:03:59 [janina]
agenda+ discuss meta-name generator re-open denial, and further revisions or formal objection http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Feb/0141.html
18:04:02 [janina]
agenda+ discuss actions as needed in response to 204 (ARIA describedby as it relates to longdesc)
18:04:05 [janina]
agenda+ confirm CP revisions for WG location of alt guidance http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt
18:04:08 [janina]
agenda+ update regarding figcaption
18:04:11 [janina]
agenda+ confirm status up to date at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status agenda+ note any procedural issues needing clarification or coordination
18:04:14 [janina]
agenda+ confirm next meeting (note CSUN next week); identify next scribe; adjourn
18:04:21 [Zakim]
+Judy
18:08:46 [janina]
zakim, who's here?
18:08:46 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Janina, Judy
18:08:47 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, janina, Zakim
18:11:46 [Zakim]
+David_MacDonald
18:12:45 [laura]
laura has joined #text
18:13:58 [Zakim]
+Laura_Carlson
18:14:58 [David]
David has joined #text
18:16:48 [janina]
zakim, take up item 8
18:16:48 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "discuss meta-name generator re-open denial, and further revisions or formal objection http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Feb/0141.html" taken up
18:16:52 [Zakim]
... [from janina]
18:17:00 [janina]
scribe: david
18:17:02 [David]
scribe: David
18:19:03 [David]
JB: There is considerable concern that chairs do not understand the arguments of the meta Generator proposal, do not understand the propsal
18:21:14 [David]
Janina: main issue... whether or not in a CMS there still is a need for alt text...
18:22:46 [laura]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/meta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming#current_usage_of_meta_name.3Dgenerator_.28New.29
18:23:48 [David]
Janina: important to understand that there is no CMS that prevent the ability to provide ALT text,
18:25:29 [laura]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20090126#HTML5_Should_Not_Facilitate_the_Creation_of_Inaccessible_Content
18:26:16 [David]
Laura: not only CMS but all kinds of authoring tools. Dreamweaver etc...
18:26:41 [David]
Laura: they all allow alt text to be created which conforms to WCAG
18:29:57 [Zakim]
-Judy
18:30:02 [Zakim]
+Judy
18:31:28 [Judy]
Judy has joined #text
18:32:22 [Judy]
rrsagent, make log team
18:32:32 [Judy]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:32:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/21-text-minutes.html Judy
18:35:00 [Judy]
Judy: We need to better emphasize that the user requirement for alt is real, but getting left out of the decision-making process.
18:36:20 [Judy]
Janina: the evidence that they're requesting is taking us off on tangents; they are missing the main points.
18:38:58 [Judy]
zakim, take up next item
18:38:58 [Zakim]
agendum 9. "discuss actions as needed in response to 204 (ARIA describedby as it relates to longdesc)" taken up [from janina]
18:40:53 [David]
JB: ARIA Described by... have requested a coordination meeting regarding procedural problems.
18:42:34 [laura]
http://john.foliot.ca/aria-hidden/
18:44:21 [Judy]
rrsagent, make log public
18:44:57 [Judy]
JB: notes that John Foliot collecting examples to disprove the premise of the 204 call for proposal
18:46:09 [Judy]
...he needs to post it onto the lists
18:46:52 [Judy]
Janina: or analyze it first
18:47:50 [Judy]
JB: i'll suggest that he posts it
18:50:10 [Judy]
JS: FYI, there is 'vestigial' text in ARIA that needs to be updated...
18:51:43 [Judy]
zakim, next item
18:51:43 [Zakim]
agendum 10. "confirm CP revisions for WG location of alt guidance http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt" taken up [from janina]
18:52:03 [Zakim]
-Laura_Carlson
18:54:31 [Judy]
JS: sent survey on SF CP on WG location of alt guidance
18:54:52 [Judy]
...will close tomorrow before the TF
18:59:37 [Judy]
JB: people may not understand that it's still open for comment
18:59:59 [Judy]
JS: will extend.
19:00:12 [Judy]
zakim, next item
19:00:12 [Zakim]
agendum 11. "update regarding figcaption" taken up [from janina]
19:00:21 [Judy]
agenda?
19:03:29 [Judy]
JB: the example evidence for alt was not as I expected; fewer long ones than I expected, including many that were "appropriate"; how interruptible is alt read-out, if starting a longer one?
19:03:41 [Judy]
JS: usually reads out automatically
19:04:15 [Judy]
DM: it is interruptible by arrowing down through it
19:04:44 [Judy]
DM: and ARIA describedby is read twice on the page
19:06:39 [Judy]
JB: are there were others that fell into a short-then-long distinction that could easily map to alt-then-longdesc
19:08:15 [Judy]
...so this may best be deferrable till after longdesc is settled.
19:08:52 [Judy]
zakim, take up next
19:08:52 [Zakim]
agendum 12. "confirm status up to date at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status agenda+ note any procedural issues needing clarification or
19:08:55 [Zakim]
... coordination" taken up [from janina]
19:09:15 [Judy]
JS: CP for ish 203 is also missing, urgent to get
19:09:32 [Judy]
JB: ping John?
19:09:52 [Judy]
JS: will do
19:10:14 [Judy]
zakim, take up next
19:10:14 [Zakim]
agendum 13. "confirm next meeting (note CSUN next week); identify next scribe; adjourn" taken up [from janina]
19:11:07 [Judy]
Next Meeting:
19:11:18 [Judy]
- not next week (CSUN)
19:11:33 [Judy]
- following week only if we have other confirmed attendance
19:12:34 [Zakim]
-Judy
19:12:38 [Zakim]
-David_MacDonald
19:14:16 [Zakim]
-Janina
19:14:17 [Zakim]
Team_(text)17:59Z has ended
19:14:17 [Zakim]
Attendees were Janina, Judy, David_MacDonald, Laura_Carlson
19:14:26 [janina]
zakim, bye
19:14:26 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #text
19:14:44 [janina]
rrsagent, make log public
19:14:51 [janina]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:14:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/21-text-minutes.html janina
20:44:31 [Judy]
Judy has joined #text