18:01:19 RRSAgent has joined #text 18:01:19 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/21-text-irc 18:01:36 rrsagent, make log public 18:01:43 rrsagent, make minutes 18:01:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/21-text-minutes.html janina 18:01:53 zakim, who's here? 18:01:53 On the phone I see ??P0 18:01:55 On IRC I see RRSAgent, janina, Zakim 18:02:05 zakim, ??P0 is Janina 18:02:05 +Janina; got it 18:02:14 zakim, agenda? 18:02:14 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda: 18:02:16 3. discuss CP for WG location of alt guidance, and recommend for TF support as appropriate http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt [from janina] 18:02:16 4. discuss CP for figcaption [from janina] 18:02:16 5. confirm status up to date at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status [from janina] 18:02:16 6. note any procedural issues needing clarification [from janina] 18:02:17 7. confirm next meeting; identify next scribe; adjourn [from janina] 18:02:53 zakim, remove 3 18:02:53 I don't understand 'remove 3', janina 18:03:02 zakim, drop item 3 18:03:02 agendum 3, discuss CP for WG location of alt guidance, and recommend for TF support as appropriate http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt, dropped 18:03:19 zakim, drop item 4 18:03:19 agendum 4, discuss CP for figcaption, dropped 18:03:23 zakim, drop item 5 18:03:23 agendum 5, confirm status up to date at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status, dropped 18:03:26 zakim, drop item 6 18:03:26 agendum 6, note any procedural issues needing clarification, dropped 18:03:28 zakim, drop item 7 18:03:28 agendum 7, confirm next meeting; identify next scribe; adjourn, dropped 18:03:38 zakim, agenda? 18:03:38 I see nothing remaining on the agenda 18:03:59 agenda+ discuss meta-name generator re-open denial, and further revisions or formal objection http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Feb/0141.html 18:04:02 agenda+ discuss actions as needed in response to 204 (ARIA describedby as it relates to longdesc) 18:04:05 agenda+ confirm CP revisions for WG location of alt guidance http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt 18:04:08 agenda+ update regarding figcaption 18:04:11 agenda+ confirm status up to date at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status agenda+ note any procedural issues needing clarification or coordination 18:04:14 agenda+ confirm next meeting (note CSUN next week); identify next scribe; adjourn 18:04:21 +Judy 18:08:46 zakim, who's here? 18:08:46 On the phone I see Janina, Judy 18:08:47 On IRC I see RRSAgent, janina, Zakim 18:11:46 +David_MacDonald 18:12:45 laura has joined #text 18:13:58 +Laura_Carlson 18:14:58 David has joined #text 18:16:48 zakim, take up item 8 18:16:48 agendum 8. "discuss meta-name generator re-open denial, and further revisions or formal objection http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Feb/0141.html" taken up 18:16:52 ... [from janina] 18:17:00 scribe: david 18:17:02 scribe: David 18:19:03 JB: There is considerable concern that chairs do not understand the arguments of the meta Generator proposal, do not understand the propsal 18:21:14 Janina: main issue... whether or not in a CMS there still is a need for alt text... 18:22:46 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/meta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming#current_usage_of_meta_name.3Dgenerator_.28New.29 18:23:48 Janina: important to understand that there is no CMS that prevent the ability to provide ALT text, 18:25:29 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20090126#HTML5_Should_Not_Facilitate_the_Creation_of_Inaccessible_Content 18:26:16 Laura: not only CMS but all kinds of authoring tools. Dreamweaver etc... 18:26:41 Laura: they all allow alt text to be created which conforms to WCAG 18:29:57 -Judy 18:30:02 +Judy 18:31:28 Judy has joined #text 18:32:22 rrsagent, make log team 18:32:32 rrsagent, make minutes 18:32:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/21-text-minutes.html Judy 18:35:00 Judy: We need to better emphasize that the user requirement for alt is real, but getting left out of the decision-making process. 18:36:20 Janina: the evidence that they're requesting is taking us off on tangents; they are missing the main points. 18:38:58 zakim, take up next item 18:38:58 agendum 9. "discuss actions as needed in response to 204 (ARIA describedby as it relates to longdesc)" taken up [from janina] 18:40:53 JB: ARIA Described by... have requested a coordination meeting regarding procedural problems. 18:42:34 http://john.foliot.ca/aria-hidden/ 18:44:21 rrsagent, make log public 18:44:57 JB: notes that John Foliot collecting examples to disprove the premise of the 204 call for proposal 18:46:09 ...he needs to post it onto the lists 18:46:52 Janina: or analyze it first 18:47:50 JB: i'll suggest that he posts it 18:50:10 JS: FYI, there is 'vestigial' text in ARIA that needs to be updated... 18:51:43 zakim, next item 18:51:43 agendum 10. "confirm CP revisions for WG location of alt guidance http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt" taken up [from janina] 18:52:03 -Laura_Carlson 18:54:31 JS: sent survey on SF CP on WG location of alt guidance 18:54:52 ...will close tomorrow before the TF 18:59:37 JB: people may not understand that it's still open for comment 18:59:59 JS: will extend. 19:00:12 zakim, next item 19:00:12 agendum 11. "update regarding figcaption" taken up [from janina] 19:00:21 agenda? 19:03:29 JB: the example evidence for alt was not as I expected; fewer long ones than I expected, including many that were "appropriate"; how interruptible is alt read-out, if starting a longer one? 19:03:41 JS: usually reads out automatically 19:04:15 DM: it is interruptible by arrowing down through it 19:04:44 DM: and ARIA describedby is read twice on the page 19:06:39 JB: are there were others that fell into a short-then-long distinction that could easily map to alt-then-longdesc 19:08:15 ...so this may best be deferrable till after longdesc is settled. 19:08:52 zakim, take up next 19:08:52 agendum 12. "confirm status up to date at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status agenda+ note any procedural issues needing clarification or 19:08:55 ... coordination" taken up [from janina] 19:09:15 JS: CP for ish 203 is also missing, urgent to get 19:09:32 JB: ping John? 19:09:52 JS: will do 19:10:14 zakim, take up next 19:10:14 agendum 13. "confirm next meeting (note CSUN next week); identify next scribe; adjourn" taken up [from janina] 19:11:07 Next Meeting: 19:11:18 - not next week (CSUN) 19:11:33 - following week only if we have other confirmed attendance 19:12:34 -Judy 19:12:38 -David_MacDonald 19:14:16 -Janina 19:14:17 Team_(text)17:59Z has ended 19:14:17 Attendees were Janina, Judy, David_MacDonald, Laura_Carlson 19:14:26 zakim, bye 19:14:26 Zakim has left #text 19:14:44 rrsagent, make log public 19:14:51 rrsagent, make minutes 19:14:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/21-text-minutes.html janina 20:44:31 Judy has joined #text