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<trackbot> Date: 16 February 2012
<janina> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 16 February 2012
<janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
<scribe> scribe: jf
<MichaelC> scribe: JF
<MichaelC> ARIA Attribute Processing Change Proposal
Michael C: added a link to the Change proposal pages
reviewed Issue 199 last thursday. due date today, feels it is ready to roll
JS: we usually send an email to the chairs advising of new CP
<paulc> Is this about 191 or 199?
JS: may want to flag as a TF Proposal, but likely want to give people a bit of time
MC: this should be complete - there may be a small bit of editorial tweaking, but do not expect substantive changes
JS: notes that all CP's required have been filed, so we are in good shape
JB: plans to file a CP against Issue 202 before end of day
hope to revisit soon
JS: discussed process last week on HTML WG telecon
notion to make Issue 203 conditional on Issue 30
plan is to submit at CP by Saturday, but note relationship to issue 30. Chairs will set aside until issue 30 resolved
JS: several of us have worked on this, however SF got it together and submitted by last week's deadline
it is undergoing a number of editorial changes, but proposes 2 things
1) asks for guidance in the HTML5 Draft be removed and instead point to the alt text document
2) notes that the guidance is language agnostic - relevant to both HTML as well as PDF, SVG, Word docs, etc., thus requests that it be moved to WCAG
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt
JS: suggestion is that this group
bring forward an opinion on this - notes there are some minor
tweaks and editorial changes to come (spelling mistakes)
... expects that the TF would be interested in perfecting the
proposal and supporting it more formally
(members reviewing the CP now)
JB: has 1 concern, will expand on
that momentarily
... we had previously discussed an approach and do not recall
ever discussing this as a joint submission
thought the intent was that this be a deliverable managed by the WCAG WG, with input from any interested party, as some of the guidance *does* go beyond HTML
thus having this jointly managed by the htmlwg could be difficult
given that there has been some conflict in the past - this could impact on other groups
JF: suggests that it be moved to PFWG, administered by WCAG
JB: WAI has a smooth work flow to manage who looks after what
so letting WCAG manage this is likely appropriate, and they have the bandwidth to do this
WCAG WG can coordinate input from other interested parties
they can also look at this in terms of normative vs advisory, etc.
what is key is appropriate positioning of things
<janina> [Dnq?
so put forward a proposal as to where this should be placed, and then discuss those merits
JS: sounds like this proposal is finding favor, with 1 change, to remove the "Joint" management indication
next step to put out a 48 hr survey. Are we ready to do so?
DM: has one concern, that the CP seems to cause some inciting some combativeness
JB: this is a matter of record of the bugs and rejection pattern, and the fact that the problem does still exist
JS: one of the basis for the request for consideration was a specific request of noting the pattern of rejections
<janina> DRAFT: The HTML-A11Y Task Force supports the Issue-31 reconsideration proposal at:
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt
<janina> provided it is modified to propose the Alt Techniques document become a deliverable of the WCAG WG.
CS: sounds good
DM suggests "as amended"
JS: we have permission to amend from SF already
(MC making minor edits to the wiki
RESOLUTION: The HTML-A11Y Task Force supports the Issue-31 reconsideration proposal at: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt
PC: given that this will land in the Chairs inbox soon, suggests some feedback
<MichaelC> ^ note this resolution was made on revision id 12141
Notes a relationship to WCAG, but this new document will not be part of WCAG, but rather a new document related to WCAG
cautions about the rational - quote "New version of WCAG" end quote
CS: the design of WCAG is that we do not create a new document, but rather add and adjust new techniques
MC: the argument also includes a number of documents in a suite that = WCAG, thus updating any 1 doc creates a "new" version of WCAG
CS: the addition of new documents to WCAG follows the pattern of "Living Spec"
PC: that is an important point that needs to be underscored, so that the Chairs and others are clear on WCAG evolution
JB": is there a way to version up the wording so that it includes the intended change, with language that clarifies the impact on WCAG
PC: the chairs are moving fairly swiftly on re-open requests. Likely by this friday this will be high on the review list by the chairs
JB: question around word-smithing
DM: is there value in talking about normative/non-normative
<MichaelC> My proposal was that WCAG 2.0, Understanding WCAG 2.0, and Techniques for WCAG 2.0" constitute the "WCAG 2.0 Suite" and an update to any of them constitutes and "update to WCAG"
CS: suggest that WCAG was built to accomodate change via the techniques section (1 of 3 in the "suite") - Living Spec portion
JS: suggest we finish this off line, and then submit the resolution after that
<MichaelC> Cynthia pointed out that publishing updates to Techniques for WCAG 2.0 is the mechanism by which WCAG 2.0 is a "living document" while still being normative
JS: any URIs that can be included will also strengthen the language
<MichaelC> HTML 5 Techniques for WCAG 2.0 Task Force
<MichaelC> Starter set of HTML 5 techniques for WCAG 2.0
<janina> DRAFT: The HTML-A11Y Task Force supports the Issue-31 reconsideration proposal at:
<janina> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt
RESOLUTION: The HTML-A11Y Task Force supports the Issue-31 reconsideration proposal at: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt
with the edits regarding WCAG discussed and minuted from today's teleconference
zakim; next item
<Judy> http://www.w3.org/2012/02/14-text-minutes.html
JB: concern about process, and next step will be request of procedural issues
concerns discussion on splitting longdesc decision over some protests
lack of coordination
also puts ARIA-describedby issue ahead of Issue 30, concern about timing issue
also proposes a change on ARIA (work of another WG) without consultation or coordination
need to talk about coordination efforts
JB: invites others to review information in the minutes from the text sub-team call
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Issue 191/Issue 199/ Found Scribe: jf Found Scribe: JF Inferring ScribeNick: JF Default Present: Cooper, Judy, John_Foliot, Mike, Rich, David_MacDonald, Janina_Sajka, Paul_Cotton, Cynthia_Shelly Present: Janina_Sajka Michael_Cooper Paul_Cotton Judy_Brewer John_Foliot Mike_Smith Rich_Schwerdtfeger David_MacDonald Regrets: Léonie_Watson Steve_Faulkner Found Date: 16 Feb 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-html-a11y-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]