HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

26 Jan 2012


See also: IRC log


Cynthia_Shelly, Judy, Cooper, paulc, Léonie_Watson, Mike, Rich
LeonieW, MikeSmith


<trackbot> Date: 26 January 2012

<MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/meta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming

<LeonieW> scribenick: LeonieW


<MikeSmith> recent changes are shown at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/index.php?title=ChangeProposal%2Fmeta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming&diff=11821&oldid=11673

MS: Steve made some changes yesterday.
... The change is to the introductory text.
... Difficult to understand the context of this change proposal. Essentially, if you have metagenerated elements in your content, none of the images in your document require alternative text.
... So instances where you may have intended to include a text description will not be picked up by validation checks.

CS: It also lets accessibility authoring tools off the hook.

MS: The rationale of the CP talks about the percentage of content on the web that is metagenerated.
... It's estimated that 1 in 4 pages would be affected by this.
... There is a difference between document conformance (that can be checked by a validator) and authoring conformance.
... The spec requires images to have alternative text. It also provides an exception for metagenerated content.
... This CP requests that the exception is removed, and.
... Negative effect is that authors may provide unhelpful text descriptions. Is this really a negative effect?

JB: Suggest we remove the negative effect and let Steve know, rather than include one for process' sake.

CS: Authors will sometimes provide unhelpful text descriptions. Not sure that's a negative effect of this CP?

JB: Paul, do we need to include something for form's sake?

PC: I don't believe so, but if the chairs disagree you'll hear from them.

MS: I propose a resolution...

<MikeSmith> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The TF endorses the proposal at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/meta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming pending removal of the current text in the Negative Effects section.

JB: Suggest we record it as a resolution with a note.

CS: Do we need to issue it for 48 hour consensus?

<MikeSmith> RESOLUTION: The TF endorses the proposal at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/meta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming pending confirmation of removal by Steve of the current text in the Negative Effects section, with 48 hours for anyone on the TF mailing list to state objections.

Revert request on longdesc

<MikeSmith> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jan/0136.html

MS: This relates to issue 30.
... Jonas submitted an alternate CP to the one Laura authored. Laura feels that a change made to the spec by Hixie effectively bypassess the W3C process.
... Gez supports Laura's revert request. Leif has also responded, but notes that the issue may not be as problematic as Laura suggests but that it should be reviewed. He concurrs with Laura's request.
... Silvia suggested that the change has no direct relationship with the longdesc issue.

JB: It does seem to be an unfortunate complication to a sensitive issue.
... I support Laura's revert request as well.

PC: I've started a chairs discussion on this. Sam is away for the next few days. I will post to the public list as well.

MS: This is something for the chairs to respond to, but the TF may want to take a position on it as well.

<MikeSmith> the actual change is here, http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=6894&to=6895

MS: Take a look at the diff and if you feel inclined to make a comment, that would be good.

Sub team reports (Text alternatives)

JB: We met on Tuesday and discussed the metagenerator CP, and agreed it should be brought to the TF.
... We also noted that minor changes to the title CP were due.
... We started to check all text related bugs that were escalated before the January deadline.
... We discussed the updates to longdesc and the timeline.
... Philippe Le Hégaret joined the call and was helpful on the longdesc discussion.

MS: Don't believe the media sub team has met recently, or has any current activity.
... Without Rich I'm not sure about progress on canvas.

CS: We've been working on our SxSW presentation on canvas.

<Judy> link to the text subteam minutes this week: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Jan/0247.html

Sub team (API mapping)

CS: Jason Kiss has filled in the Mac API section.
... We've done work to fill in the UA sections.
... We have new people involved and stuff's getting done.

<MikeSmith> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html

<MikeSmith> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/log

Sub team reports (Bug triage)

<MikeSmith> scribenick: MikeSmith

LeonieW: agreed that now we are past the January deadline, it's quieter and we are only going to meet once a fortnight, and probably only for 30 minutes
... until we reach the next big deadline
... we did a review of bugs that need more information
... so we have a question about what the protocol is for bugs that were filed before the deadline and escalated and so are now tied to HTML WG issues
... but these are still showing up on our radar



MichaelC: we don't know if information being provided on the bug would be considered for an issue that has been escalated

<paulc> \http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/74

my personal suggestion on this is that information should still be added as comments to the bug, as long as the bug still remains at NEEDSINFO

<paulc> Here is the issue-74 decision http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Dec/0136.html

LeonieW: looking through the NEEDSINFO bug, there are quite a few that are related to media that have open and waiting for info for a year or more?

paulc: are those related to the Web on TV IG bugs?

MikeSmith: I think those are more recent

paulc: can you give me an example of one of these bugs?

<MichaelC> NeedsInfo bugs with specific questions to the TF

Cynthia: send some nag mail

Judy: nag mail is helpful sometime to make sure they end up on the top of everyone's pile

LeonieW: quite a few bugs assigned to Gregory
... and we tried to reassign those to other people but are struggling to find someone to pick those up

Summary of Action Items

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Default Present: Cynthia_Shelly, Judy, Cooper, paulc, Léonie_Watson, Mike, Rich
Present: Cynthia_Shelly Judy Cooper paulc Léonie_Watson Mike Rich
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Jan/0267.html

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Found Date: 26 Jan 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-html-a11y-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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