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<trackbot> Date: 19 January 2012
<kford> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 19 January 2012
<kford> Scribe: Kim
length of meeting discussion
slated to meet tomorrow East Coast 1-4
<kford> Just a reminder that we meet Friday 1P to 4P.
Kelly: 2.3
... when we don't have universal agreement we can either send
this off for someone, which will take a whole cycle, or we can
spend group time rewriting
Jim: I can live with Jean's
Jean: use Greg's as final sentence
<jeanne> This success criterion reduces the cognitive load for keyboard interface users *, some of whom may also have cognitive disabilities*. Navigation by keyboard interface may vary by platform, user agent and assistive technology, *requiring memorization of a very large number of keyboard shortcut commands*. Taken as a whole, this creates hardship for keyboard interface users. The *some users* of the
<jeanne> keyboard interface needs perceivable labels to learn and be able to operate navigation effectively, *while those using assistive technologies require communication of the keystrokes by programmatic means.* Tthese do not have to always be presented, but can instead be a user option or on request (e.g. tapping Alt in Windows).
Greg: I don't think the word programmatically belongs in the SC, but if we keep it it does make sense to mention it in the intent
<jeanne> This success criterion reduces the cognitive load for keyboard interface users *, some of whom may also have cognitive disabilities*. Navigation by keyboard interface may vary by platform, user agent and assistive technology, *requiring memorization of a very large number of keyboard shortcut commands*. Taken as a whole, this creates hardship for keyboard interface users. The *some users* of the
<jeanne> keyboard interface needs perceivable labels to learn and be able to operate navigation effectively, *while some using assistive technologies require communication of the keystrokes by programmatic means.* These do not have to always be presented, but can instead be a user option or on request (e.g. tapping Alt in Windows).
<jeanne> This success criterion reduces the cognitive load for keyboard interface users *, some of whom may also have cognitive disabilities*. Navigation by keyboard interface may vary by application, platform, user agent and assistive technology, *requiring memorization of a very large number of keyboard shortcut commands*. Taken as a whole, this creates hardship for keyboard interface users. The *some
<jeanne> users* of the keyboard interface needs perceivable labels to learn and be able to operate navigation effectively, *while some using assistive technologies require communication of the keystrokes by programmatic means.* These do not have to always be presented, but can instead be a user option or on request (e.g. tapping Alt in Windows).
Wayne: I don't understand the section while some... programmatic means.
<Greg> "In some cases assistive technology needs to be able to discover the keyboard shortcuts, either to convey them to the user or to simulate them itself."
<jeanne> This success criterion reduces the cognitive load for keyboard interface users *, some of whom may also have cognitive disabilities*. Navigation by keyboard interface may vary by application, platform, user agent and assistive technology, *requiring memorization of a very large number of keyboard shortcut commands*. Taken as a whole, this creates hardship for keyboard interface users. The *some
<jeanne> users* of the keyboard interface needs perceivable labels to learn and be able to operate navigation effectively, *while some using assistive technologies are able to discover keystrokes by programmatic means. These do not have to always be presented, but can instead be a user option or on request (e.g. tapping Alt in Windows).
<Greg> "In some cases assistive technologyneeds to be able to discover the keyboard shortcuts *programmatically*, either to convey them to the user or to simulate them itself."
Wayne: as intent, OK
... why do we need the programmatically,
Greg: everything is going to have to be exposed programmatically -- a label would be exposed as text programmatically, but to simulate a keystroke it has two understand the relationship -- that that is a direct key for a certain control. That's covered by another sc., not sure if it has to be in this sc.
<Greg> Note that the portion of the SC about programmatic access is redundant to 4.1.6 Expose Accessible Properties, (j) direct keyboard commands.
Greg: if we leave the thing about programmatic access here, we should put a cross-reference to that
<Greg> If we keep the programmatic access here, we should cross reference to 4.1.6.j.
Wayne: I think this is good enough
Kelly: any objections
no objections
<Greg> Either way, the cross reference should be include whether we keep or remove the programmatic aspect of the SC.
all agreed
unanimous
<jeanne> Resolved: Accept 2.7.2, 2.7.3, and 2.7.4 as proposed in the survey.
summary
Mark: needs to be expanded
<AndroUser> Ok with Marks
Correction: Topic 2.10
<Greg> "In its default configuration the user agent helps prevent seizures by not flashing..."
Wayne: to avoid seizures, the user may configure the way so that the flashing is below 2% or does not flash at all
Jean: the default rather than the user can configure
Greg: in the default configuration...
Mark: what's flashing, the entire screen for some element within the UI
<mhakkinen> The user can avoid potential seizures with a default browser configuration that prevents the browser user interface and rendered content from flashing more than three times a second above a luminescence or color threshold (2.10.1), or does not flash at all (2.10.2).
Greg: if it's not the default it would be more the user can avoid -- emphasize the default configuration over the user can
<Greg> "To help users avoid seizures, the default browser configuration prevents..."
<jeanne> In its default configuration the user agent helps prevent seizures with a default browser configuration that prevents the browser user interface and rendered content from flashing more than three times a second above a luminescence or color threshold (2.10.1), or does not flash at all (2.10.2).
<Greg> "To help users avoid seizures, the default browser configuration prevents the browser user interface and rendered content from flashing more than three times a second above a luminescence or color threshold (2.10.1), or does not flash at all (2.10.2)."
<Greg> "To help users avoid seizures, the default configuration prevents the browser user interface and rendered content from flashing more than three times a second above a luminescence or color threshold (2.10.1), or does not flash at all (2.10.2)."
<AndroUser> Good for me
+1
Greg: I can live with it
Kelly: trivial to change -- I like Greg's change
<Greg> The user can control background images (2.11.1); present placeholders for time-based media (2.11.2) and executable regions (2.11.3), or block all executable content (2.11.4); adjust playback (2.11.5), stop/pause/resume (2.11.6), navigate, (2.11.7) and specify tracks for prerecorded time-based media (2.11.9); scale and position alternative media tracks (2.11.11); and adjust contrast and...
<Greg> ...brightness of visual time-based media (2.11.12).
all agree
<jeanne> RESOLVED: Proposals for Summaries of 2.10 & 2.11 accepted as amended
Greg: screen time makes it look like how much time you can look at the screen, minor changes
<Greg> "Wes has repetitive stress injury that limits the length of his computer sessions. He stops playback of a training video when he is tired and after resting, he can restart it and navigate to the scene where he left off."
agreed to change
Kelly: Mark suggests using the same names
Greg: using the same name and rewrite for style
<Greg> Changing the SC to include ""During time-based media playback, the user can determine which tracks are available and select or deselect tracks, overriding global default settings for captions, audio descriptions, etc."
+1
<AndroUser> Ok
<Greg> Style only, but the second example could be shortened to start "Gorges is deaf, and subscribes to a web service that streams major popular movies." Replaces the first two sentences.
all agreed
<AndroUser> Ok as is
agreed
<AndroUser> When she installs it...
<Greg> Martha goes to an app store on her computer and notices that an update for the web browser she uses is available. When she installs it she finds a welcome page talking about the new features in this release, and one of the links on that page says "What's new For Accessibility". following this link Martha reads about the accessibility improvements added and discovers this update had added a...
<Greg> ...feature allowing her to have tooltips displayed for elements when she is using caret browsing. The text also informs Martha that this feature is off by default and that she should go to accessibility settings to turn it on.
<Greg> > Martha goes to an app store on her computer and notices that an update for the web browser she uses is available. When she installs it she finds a welcome page talking about the new features in this release, and one of the links on that page says "What's new For Accessibility". Following this link Martha reads about the accessibility improvements added and discovers this update had added a...
<Greg> ...feature allowing her to have tooltips displayed for elements when she is using caret browsing. The text also informs Martha that this feature is off by default and that she should go to accessibility settings to turn it on.
<Greg> Bob downloads a new web browser on his mobile phone. He's never used this software before and also uses a screen reader that is part of his phone's operating system. he browser's online help includes a section on accessiblity that point him to pages discussing non-visual access, such as interaction with screen readers, as well as helpful hints such as an explanation of the screen layout and...
<Greg> ...a list of supported touch gestures.
<Greg> Bob downloads a new web browser on his mobile phone. He's never used this software before and also uses a screen reader that is part of his phone's operating system. *The* browser's online help includes a section on accessiblity that point him to pages discussing non-visual access, such as interaction with screen readers, as well as helpful hints such as an explanation of the screen layout...
<Greg> ...and a list of supported touch gestures.
Kelly: that's fine
+1
all agreed
<Greg> Most operating systems have conventions and expectations that aid accessibility, such as keyboard behavior, support of an accessibility API, user interface design, and other standards related to accessibility. The intent of this success criteria is to ensure that user agents comply with the basic accessibility requirements of the platform in use.
<AndroUser> Or sensible guidelines
Greg: possible overlap. 531 is about content, 532 contains the word content as well, so 531 used a subset that the moment. If we want to keep the content and the platform separate we delete the words content and from 532 and keep 531.
<Greg> If we delete "content and" from 5.3.2 then we would delete the two intent paragraphs from 5.3.1.
<Greg> And we'll delete references to HTML and ARIA from 5.3.2.
<jeanne> 5.3.2 Implement Accessibility Features of platform:
<jeanne> Implement and cite in the conformance claim the accessibility features of platform technology specifications. Accessibility features are those that are either (Level A) :
<jeanne> The user should be able to easily discover detailed information about the user agent's adherence to accessibility standards, platform standards such as MSAA or JAA, and third-party standards such as ISO 9241-171, and should be able to do so without installing and testing the accessibility features.
<Greg> (We also did the edit to the first paragraph of 5.3.2's Intent.)
<Greg> Most content specs include features important to users with disabilities, and users may find it difficult or impossible to use a product that fails to support those features. Users should be able to easily discover detailed information about the user agent’s adherence to accessibility standards, including those related to content such as HTML and WAI-ARIA, and should be able to do so without...
<Greg> ...installing and testing the accessibility features. This will allow them to make informed decisions about whether or not to they will be able to use, and therefore should install, a new product or version of that product.
<Greg> Jordy uses a web site which uses WAI-ARIA to identify the functions of custom controls. If he used a web browser that didn't support this aspect of WAI-ARIA and expose that information to assistive technology, the web site would be unusable with his web browser. Therefore Jordy needs to choose a web browser that he knows fully supports WAI-ARIA, and he determines this by reading product...
<Greg> ...documentation and UAAG conformance claims posted on the Web
<AndroUser> Im back
Jeanne: most content specs -- you mean specifications?
<kford> zakim q?
Kelly: items from face-to-face
that we had voted no on
... list from Jim -- we had voted no on at some point, that
still need some attention -- do we still think they are wrong
or what do we want to do with them
Topic 1.11
<jeanne> Rendering alternative content defaults
Kelly: we said the handle was wrong
<jeanne> Configurable alternative content defaults
<mhakkinen> +1
1.1.2 Browse and Render
Kelly: we wanted to address the ability to have the alternative content display along with the default is the comment
Jeanne: that's getting complex
Kelly: if we tried to address this comment it would have to be a new success criteria
Jeanne: add to the intent -- this is not preclude having it display in multiple...
<Greg> How about add Note: User agents are encouraged to also provide the ability to display alternate content with, rather than replacing, the primary content.
+1
<Greg> (e.g. as a pop-up or tooltip)
<AllanJ> +1
<Greg> Note: User agents are encouraged to also provide the ability to display alternate content with, rather than replacing, the primary content (e.g. as a pop-up, tooltip, or annotation).
<mhakkinen> +1
Greg: Brother places where it would be just as important to display both alternative and primary as important as just one of the two. If we think that is as important are two options are either to put in a second SC about applying them with or to change the wording of this SC to say the user has a choice
Jim: nobody can do this yet, nobody can render them as both so we should leave it as an either or
Greg: you can do it using a style sheet
Kelly: just a note
Greg: if it is as important it should be in the SC
Wayne: what is the purpose
Jeanne: what is the advantage of displaying both
Greg: having the image and description of the image because if you have some vision -- today you have to hide the image to see the description
Kelly: example of why you want
both -- what happens if there's an alternate title on
object
... there could be times when you want to render both
... W3C/wai homepage, the alt text
Jim: you have to go through machinations -- it would be good if were just upon the screen so you could see all the titles
Kelly: I would be good with putting a note for expediency
Jeanne: right now it's in the main document as a note after 1.1.2
<AllanJ> ok with note
agreed to note
<mhakkinen> have to go. see you tomorrow.
discussion on how to proceed given that are fewer of us
Kelly: comment this sounds like what people curse about Microsoft word. It's an option
Jim, Kelly seems okay to me
<jeanne> W3C doesn't have a quorum policy. We represent the views of the group. I think we should not address issues that we know are contentious to a particular member, but otherwise, we can go ahead.
Greg: we are not saying which repair text -- what is expected -- if there are no captions for video with this require use voice-recognition to create captions -- why would it not?
<Greg> I'm concerned that the text of SC 1.2.1 requires user agents to create repair text for *all* missing alternative content. Wouldn't that include using speech recognition to generate captions for audio? It's Level A.
Jim: what is repair text?
<jeanne> SC: - 1.2.1 Repair Missing Alternatives:
<jeanne> The user can specify whether or not the user agent should generate and render repair text (e.g. file name) when it recognizes that the author has not provided alternative content. (Level A)
<jeanne> Example - Bintu is deaf and relies on captions to replace audio. A video does not have captions. Bintu selects a caption button, and is informed that no captions exist. The player then analyzes the video soundtrack and provides speech to text translation served as captions. Note: this is an advanced example, not a requirement.
<AllanJ> repair content, repair text
<AllanJ> Content generated by the user agent to correct an error condition. "Repair text" refers to the text portion of repair content. Error conditions that may lead to the generation of repair content include:
<AllanJ> Erroneous or incomplete content (e.g. ill-formed markup, invalid markup, or missing alternative content that is required by format specification);
<AllanJ> Missing resources for handling or rendering content (e.g. the user agent lacks a font family to display some characters, or the user agent does not implement a particular scripting language).
Jeanne: the added that note as an advanced example not a requirement specifically for that
<AllanJ> UAAG 2.0 does not require user agents to include repair content in the document object. Repair content inserted in the document object should conform to the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0 [WCAG10]. For more information about repair techniques for Web content and software, refer to "Techniques for Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines 1.0" [ATAG10-TECHS].
Greg: fine as an example but the
SC doesn't exclude things like that
... so it says that the don't have to be document object, but
it still seems to say that it has to generate captions for
audio unless we do something to scope that otherwise or clarify
in the definition of repair text
Jim: definition of repair text --
Greg: we should probably clarify that in the intent document to point out that because the definition for repair text is only for things required by the specification it would not require for example generating transcripts of audio using speech recognition
Jeanne: the definition of repair text is only for things required... I will add that to the intent
Greg: do we also want to make a note about feasibility -- like are there cases whereit's simply not feasible for the user agent to generate a meaningful repair text
Jim: because this repair text was originally set up for what screen readers do if there's no, tries to do a title of there's no title it snags the filename as a last resort so the user has something.
Greg: do we have a list of alternative content -- which ones are required by the specification and therefore which would be required
Jeanne: atag
<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20120113/#prompting-types
Greg: do they know which one of those are required in terms of repair text?
Jeanne: no, this is what requires -- not used as repair text, this is what authoring tools are responsible for
<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20120113/#prompting-types
Greg: I like to see these things be in the document so we don't lose track of them
<AllanJ> Note: there are some instances when user agents will not be able to generate repair text. Such as when a video does not have captions. we do not expect the UA to use voice recognition to generate captions.
Jeanne: we can put it at the end of the SC
<AllanJ> Greg as serious issues ith this. what is requiared alternative text and what is to be used to replace it.
Jeanne: one of ways to resolve it
is to eliminate the entire success criteria.this is a very HTML
oriented success criteria
... do we really needed, given the ambiguity and how could be
misapplied to new technology
Greg: I'm unsure whether it's
needed
... you could in your list of questions put that -- that we are
considering deleting it and see if people protest
Jeanne: or put it on the agenda for tomorrow
<AllanJ> I could live with deleting it
Kelly: I don't think anybody does this today
Jim: I would be okay with
deleting it
... I think it's just one of those leftover screen reader
things
Kelly: will bring up tomorrow
Greg: to do the recommendation you have to require something -- you could say at least these -- in the intent, but it's pretty implied anyway it's not an exclusive list, it is a minimum list
Jim: I think this is okay
Greg: for now, will note that we will keep it, ignore the comment
<Greg> Maybe clearer to change "presence of alternative content" to "elements with alternative content".
Greg: change to elements with alternative content
Topic 1.3.3: highlighted input controls
<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-UAAG20-20120119/MasterUAAG20120119.html#sc-131
Jim: auditory you get a bing when you move over something?
<Greg> Would these be easier to read if we moved the parenthetical examples to the end of each, rather their middles?
<Greg> E.g. change "enabled controls that take input (e.g. push buttons, radio buttons, check boxes, and text input fields, but not groupings or static text and images) regardless of whether they are read-write or read-only" to "enabled controls that take input, regardless of whether they are read-write or read-only (e.g. push buttons, radio buttons, check boxes, and text input fields, but not...
<Greg> ...groupings or static text and images)"?
OK as is
Kelly: as an action with it so we should skip it
<kford> Kelly look up action items from Jim's list.
<Greg> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/
Kelly: did we resolve this --
something in the beginning of the document that defines -- and
action item from last week
... we did resolve it -- keyboard interface. We need to replace
in some portions of document
Jeanne: we have to do a level review -- the number of a's that aren't done now -- go through and skim the level a's to see which browsers actually do.
Greg: it would make a lot of
sense to have a reference of which ones are implemented and
which ones are not.
... even if we can find that a couple of obscure browsers
support it, it's going to look like a new feature request, and
if we have too many feature requests...
Jeanne: if we could expand on that wiki page -- listed all a's and said who met each one -- the majors.
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