RDF Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 07 March 2012

Seen
Alex Hall, Andy Seaborne, Antoine Zimmermann, Arnaud Le Hors, Charles Greer, David Wood, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Fabien Gandon, Gavin Carothers, Guus Schreiber, Ivan Herman, Jeremy Carroll, Peter Patel-Schneider, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Sandro Hawke, Souripriya Das, Ted Thibodeau, Yves Raimond, Zhe Wu
Scribe
Pierre-Antoine Champin
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. take the 'B' version to solve issue-67 link
Topics
15:53:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/07-rdf-wg-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/07-rdf-wg-irc

15:53:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

15:53:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394

15:53:35 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:53:35 <trackbot> Date: 07 March 2012
15:54:05 <gavinc> Zakim, this is 73394

Gavin Carothers: Zakim, this is 73394

15:54:05 <Zakim> ok, gavinc; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, gavinc; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM

15:54:18 <gavinc> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Gavin Carothers: Zakim, who is on the phone?

15:54:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P3, +1.707.861.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P3, +1.707.861.aaaa

15:54:32 <gavinc> Zakim, aaaa is me

Gavin Carothers: Zakim, aaaa is me

15:54:32 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc; got it

15:56:21 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P3 is me

Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P3 is me

15:56:21 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it

15:57:08 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

15:57:08 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

15:57:09 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

15:59:18 <Zakim> +pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps

16:00:36 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

16:00:49 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

16:00:50 <MacTed> Zakim, mute m

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute m

16:00:51 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

16:00:51 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

16:00:59 <Zakim> + +1.408.996.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.408.996.aabb

16:01:16 <Arnaud> zakim, aabb is me

Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, aabb is me

16:01:16 <Zakim> +Arnaud; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud; got it

16:01:33 <Zakim> +sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +sandro

16:02:02 <Zakim> +Guus

Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus

16:02:52 <Zakim> + +1.415.586.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.415.586.aacc

16:02:53 <Zakim> + +1.707.318.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.707.318.aadd

16:02:54 <Zakim> +??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15

16:03:04 <cgreer> zakim,aadd is me

Charles Greer: zakim,aadd is me

16:03:04 <Zakim> +cgreer; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cgreer; got it

16:04:18 <Zakim> +??P22

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22

16:04:22 <AndyS> zakim, ??P22 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P22 is me

16:04:22 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

16:04:36 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.443.212.aaee

16:04:55 <AlexHall> zakim, aaee is me

Alex Hall: zakim, aaee is me

16:04:55 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexHall; got it

16:05:15 <Guus> zakim, who is here?

Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here?

16:05:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see yvesr, gavinc, Ivan, pfps, MacTed (muted), Arnaud (muted), sandro, Guus, cgreer, JeremyCarroll (muted), pchampin, AndyS, AlexHall

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see yvesr, gavinc, Ivan, pfps, MacTed (muted), Arnaud (muted), sandro, Guus, cgreer, JeremyCarroll (muted), pchampin, AndyS, AlexHall

16:05:15 <zwu2> zakim, code?

Zhe Wu: zakim, code?

16:05:17 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2

16:05:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see FabGandon, zwu2, AlexHall, AZ, pchampin, cgreer, Guus, JeremyCarroll, Arnaud, pfps, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, gavinc, mischat, MacTed, LeeF, cygri, SteveH, AndyS1, ivan,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see FabGandon, zwu2, AlexHall, AZ, pchampin, cgreer, Guus, JeremyCarroll, Arnaud, pfps, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, gavinc, mischat, MacTed, LeeF, cygri, SteveH, AndyS1, ivan,

16:05:19 <Zakim> ... trackbot, davidwood, NickH, mdmdm, yvesr, manu, manu1, sandro, ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: ... trackbot, davidwood, NickH, mdmdm, yvesr, manu, manu1, sandro, ericP

16:05:52 <pchampin> ok

Pierre-Antoine Champin: ok

16:06:07 <Zakim> +davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood

16:06:08 <Zakim> + +1.650.265.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.650.265.aaff

16:06:16 <zwu2> zakim, +1.650.265.aaff is me

Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.650.265.aaff is me

16:06:16 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2; got it

16:06:20 <zwu2> zakim, mute me

Zhe Wu: zakim, mute me

16:06:20 <Zakim> zwu2 should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: zwu2 should now be muted

16:06:39 <Zakim> +[Sophia]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[Sophia]

16:06:50 <FabGandon> Zakim, Sophia is me.

Fabien Gandon: Zakim, Sophia is me.

16:06:50 <Zakim> +FabGandon; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +FabGandon; got it

16:07:24 <pchampin> topic: admin

1. admin

16:07:35 <pchampin> subtopic: last week's minute approval

1.1. last week's minute approval

16:07:42 <pchampin> guus: any objection?

Guus Schreiber: any objection? [ Scribe Assist by Pierre-Antoine Champin ]

16:07:44 <davidwood> scribenick: pchampin

(Scribe set to Pierre-Antoine Champin)

16:07:56 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-02-29

Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-02-29

16:08:05 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aagg

16:08:06 <Zakim> +LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF

16:08:25 <Zakim> + +1.646.434.aahh

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.646.434.aahh

16:08:33 <pchampin> guus: no objection, approved

Guus Schreiber: no objection, approved

16:09:03 <AZ> zakim, aahh is me

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, aahh is me

16:09:03 <Zakim> +AZ; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it

16:09:04 <pchampin> subtopic: open action review

1.2. open action review

16:09:54 <pchampin> antoine: re ACTION-149, I sent an email about it

Antoine Zimmermann: re ACTION-149, I sent an email about it

16:10:16 <pchampin> guus: marking it as done

Guus Schreiber: marking it as done

16:10:33 <pchampin> ... any progress to report on other actions?

... any progress to report on other actions?

16:10:44 <pchampin> sandro: not on mine, sorry

Sandro Hawke: not on mine, sorry

16:10:53 <FabGandon> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-xml/index.html#

Fabien Gandon: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-xml/index.html#

16:11:06 <AZ> email of my action http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Mar/0038.html

Antoine Zimmermann: email of my action http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Mar/0038.html

16:11:11 <pchampin> fabien: the URI above is the current version of the RDF/XML spec

Fabien Gandon: the URI above is the current version of the RDF/XML spec

16:11:27 <pchampin> ... I ported it to respec

... I ported it to respec

16:11:37 <Zakim> +EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP

16:12:19 <pchampin> ... how can I make sure I don't forget any modification that ought to be done?

... how can I make sure I don't forget any modification that ought to be done?

16:12:50 <ivan> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/errata#rdf-syntax-grammar errata

Ivan Herman: -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/errata#rdf-syntax-grammar errata

16:13:28 <pchampin> ivan: above is the URL of an errata document I collected over the years

Ivan Herman: above is the URL of an errata document I collected over the years

16:13:59 <pchampin> guus: this is also referred by ISSUE-6

Guus Schreiber: this is also referred by ISSUE-6

16:14:10 <pchampin> subtopic: light-saving time

1.3. light-saving time

16:14:28 <pchampin> guus: for the following two weeks, the telecons will be one hour sooner in Europe,

Guus Schreiber: for the following two weeks, the telecons will be one hour sooner in Europe,

16:14:47 <pchampin> ... due to earlier light-saving time in the US

... due to earlier light-saving time in the US

16:15:34 <pchampin> subtopic: FTF3

1.4. FTF3

16:15:42 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2012/10/TPAC/  29 October - 2 November 2012 Lyon, France

Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2012/10/TPAC/ 29 October - 2 November 2012 Lyon, France

16:16:10 <gavinc> Oh lovely, over halloweenen again?

Gavin Carothers: Oh lovely, over halloweenen again?

16:16:22 <davidwood> ISWC  in Boston, 11-15 Nov.

David Wood: ISWC in Boston, 11-15 Nov.

16:16:28 <sandro> http://iswc2012.semanticweb.org/   November 11-15   Boston, USA

Sandro Hawke: http://iswc2012.semanticweb.org/ November 11-15 Boston, USA

16:16:37 <pchampin> ivan: TPAC begins 2 weeks earlier than ISWC, should not clash

Ivan Herman: TPAC begins 2 weeks earlier than ISWC, should not clash

16:16:47 <gavinc> Geee, another F2F in Europe?

Gavin Carothers: Geee, another F2F in Europe?

16:17:05 <davidwood> You didn't need to go last time :)

David Wood: You didn't need to go last time :)

16:17:10 <pchampin> guus: should we organise FTF3 during TPAC?

Guus Schreiber: should we organise FTF3 during TPAC?

16:17:21 <AndyS> Last time it was officially in Boston.

Andy Seaborne: Last time it was officially in Boston.

16:17:33 <pchampin> sandro: this is usually a good thing to have a FTF during TPAC

Sandro Hawke: this is usually a good thing to have a FTF during TPAC

16:17:40 <AndyS> ... just larger in London :-)

Andy Seaborne: ... just larger in London :-)

16:17:52 <pchampin> ivan: we could convince the Provenance WG to meet with us, which would also be a good thing

Ivan Herman: we could convince the Provenance WG to meet with us, which would also be a good thing

16:19:18 <pchampin> david: are we sure we do not want to meet before november?

David Wood: are we sure we do not want to meet before november?

16:20:53 <pchampin> ... I would propose to have a task-force meeting in the meantime in Boston to make a decision about the Graph question

... I would propose to have a task-force meeting in the meantime in Boston to make a decision about the Graph question

16:21:10 <pchampin> ivan: would exclude a lot of people, though, as finding a budget for a TF meeting would be harder

Ivan Herman: would exclude a lot of people, though, as finding a budget for a TF meeting would be harder

16:21:52 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is talking?

16:22:03 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arnaud (10%), Guus (24%), davidwood (51%), Ivan (18%)

Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arnaud (10%), Guus (24%), davidwood (51%), Ivan (18%)

16:22:04 <pchampin> david: even a few people can make good progress

David Wood: even a few people can make good progress

16:22:09 <pchampin> ... and then make a proposal to the WG

... and then make a proposal to the WG

16:23:18 <MacTed> I'm sitting in noisy construction environment today ... but I agree with David's informal task force idea

Ted Thibodeau: I'm sitting in noisy construction environment today ... but I agree with David's informal task force idea

16:23:37 <MacTed> the whiteboard scribbling after adjournment was valuable time

Ted Thibodeau: the whiteboard scribbling after adjournment was valuable time

16:23:43 <gavinc> I agree with informal/formal task force idea

Gavin Carothers: I agree with informal/formal task force idea

16:24:34 <davidwood> WWW2012 http://www2012.wwwconference.org/ 16-20 April in Lyon

David Wood: WWW2012 http://www2012.wwwconference.org/ 16-20 April in Lyon

16:25:17 <pchampin> guus: the current proposition is to hold FTF3 at TPAC, unless someone objects in the following week

Guus Schreiber: the current proposition is to hold FTF3 at TPAC, unless someone objects in the following week

16:25:23 <AndyS> Who wants to be in the task force?

Andy Seaborne: Who wants to be in the task force?

16:25:52 <pchampin> arnaud: what happened to the proposal to have FTF3 in Sophia after WWW?

Arnaud Le Hors: what happened to the proposal to have FTF3 in Sophia after WWW?

16:25:58 <pchampin> guus: it seems to be too early

Guus Schreiber: it seems to be too early

16:26:06 <ericP> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes

Eric Prud'hommeaux: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes

16:26:08 <ericP> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapesB

Eric Prud'hommeaux: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapesB

16:26:11 <pchampin> topic: Tutle

2. Tutle

16:26:33 <pchampin> eric: I wrote two versions (URIs above)

Eric Prud'hommeaux: I wrote two versions (URIs above)

16:27:05 <pchampin> ... the first one is what was there before

... the first one is what was there before

16:27:27 <pchampin> ... the second one defines different kind of escape sequences, then specifies which is usable where

... the second one defines different kind of escape sequences, then specifies which is usable where

16:27:52 <pchampin> ... the second answers to Andy's proposal, but I prefer the first one

... the second answers to Andy's proposal, but I prefer the first one

16:27:59 <pchampin> andy: I can live with the first one

Andy Seaborne: I can live with the first one

16:28:03 <MacTed> I actually find B much clearer...

Ted Thibodeau: I actually find B much clearer...

16:28:08 <sandro> I like B too

Sandro Hawke: I like B too

16:28:08 <ericP> +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1

16:29:01 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:29:19 <Guus> ack ivan

Guus Schreiber: ack ivan

16:29:24 <MacTed> +1 ivan & sandro

Ted Thibodeau: +1 ivan & sandro

16:29:36 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

16:29:36 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted

16:29:54 <pchampin> sandro: I prefer the 2nd one; with the first one, I lose track

Sandro Hawke: I prefer the 2nd one; with the first one, I lose track

16:30:00 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

16:30:00 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

16:30:13 <pchampin> ivan: agree with sandro

Ivan Herman: agree with sandro

16:30:19 <pchampin> MacTed: agree with sandro

Ted Thibodeau: agree with sandro

16:30:34 <pchampin> guus: eric, would you be happy with the 2nd option?

Guus Schreiber: eric, would you be happy with the 2nd option?

16:30:36 <pchampin> eric: yes

Eric Prud'hommeaux: yes

16:31:48 <ivan> PROPOSED: take the 'B' version to solve issue-67

PROPOSED: take the 'B' version to solve ISSUE-67

16:31:50 <Guus> ISSUE 67 http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/67

Guus Schreiber: ISSUE-67 http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/67

16:31:58 <gavinc> ISSUE-74?

Gavin Carothers: ISSUE-74?

16:31:58 <trackbot> ISSUE-74 -- Prefixed names and slashes -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-74 -- Prefixed names and slashes -- open

16:31:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/74

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/74

16:32:53 <pchampin> gavin: I think that this covers ISSUE-74 as well (see above)

Gavin Carothers: I think that this covers ISSUE-74 as well (see above)

16:32:56 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:33:04 <pchampin> ivan: let's first solve ISSUE-67

Ivan Herman: let's first solve ISSUE-67

16:33:09 <pchampin> pchampin: +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

16:33:15 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

16:33:21 <ivan> RESOLVED: take the 'B' version to solve issue-67

RESOLVED: take the 'B' version to solve ISSUE-67

16:33:23 <AndyS> +1

Andy Seaborne: +1

16:33:25 <zwu2> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

16:33:25 <yvesr> +1

Yves Raimond: +1

16:34:46 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/products/3

Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/products/3

16:35:58 <pchampin> guus: as we just solved ISSUE-67, there are 3 issues left regarding Turtle: ISSUE-4, ISSUE-73, ISSUE-74

Guus Schreiber: as we just solved ISSUE-67, there are 3 issues left regarding Turtle: ISSUE-4, ISSUE-73, ISSUE-74

16:36:08 <davidwood> q+ to discuss references to ISSUE-4 in the Turtle draft

David Wood: q+ to discuss references to ISSUE-4 in the Turtle draft

16:36:28 <pchampin> ISSUE-4?

ISSUE-4?

16:36:28 <trackbot> ISSUE-4 -- Do we depecate N-Triples and use Turtle instead? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-4 -- Do we depecate N-Triples and use Turtle instead? -- open

16:36:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/4

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/4

16:37:23 <pchampin> gavin: we considered defining N-Triples inside the Turtle document, but this was never resolved

Gavin Carothers: we considered defining N-Triples inside the Turtle document, but this was never resolved

16:37:56 <pchampin> ... see now section 11 in the Turtle document

... see now section 11 in the Turtle document

16:38:09 <pchampin> david: I think there is a conflation of what issue 4 means

David Wood: I think there is a conflation of what ISSUE-4 means

16:38:21 <pchampin> ... deprecating is not the same as folding it in the Turtle document

... deprecating is not the same as folding it in the Turtle document

16:38:38 <zwu2> N-TRIPLES are used in production, it is not a good idea to deprecate it

Zhe Wu: N-TRIPLES are used in production, it is not a good idea to deprecate it

16:38:38 <pchampin> ... those are two different questions

... those are two different questions

16:38:43 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:38:47 <ivan> ack davidwood

Ivan Herman: ack davidwood

16:38:48 <Zakim> davidwood, you wanted to discuss references to ISSUE-4 in the Turtle draft

Zakim IRC Bot: davidwood, you wanted to discuss references to ISSUE-4 in the Turtle draft

16:39:03 <pchampin> ... my answers would be "no" to deprecation, and "yes" to including it

... my answers would be "no" to deprecation, and "yes" to including it

16:39:09 <AndyS> (1) Keep N-triples (2) one doc or two - don't care.

Andy Seaborne: (1) Keep N-triples (2) one doc or two - don't care.

16:40:13 <zwu2> q+

Zhe Wu: q+

16:40:18 <ivan> q-

Ivan Herman: q-

16:40:29 <Souri> Same as Andy: (1) Keep N-triples (2) one doc or two - don't care.

Souripriya Das: Same as Andy: (1) Keep N-triples (2) one doc or two - don't care.

16:41:26 <pchampin> guus: wasn't there an objection from Oracle about merging N-Triple with Turtle, regarding UTF-8?

Guus Schreiber: wasn't there an objection from Oracle about merging N-Triple with Turtle, regarding UTF-8?

16:41:33 <pchampin> david: I think we had a resolution about it

David Wood: I think we had a resolution about it

16:41:51 <pchampin> ... btw, it would be good to have a place containing all the resolutions of the group

... btw, it would be good to have a place containing all the resolutions of the group

16:41:57 <pchampin> q+

q+

16:42:08 <zwu2> zakim, unmute me

Zhe Wu: zakim, unmute me

16:42:08 <Zakim> zwu2 should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: zwu2 should no longer be muted

16:42:44 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-08-31

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-08-31

16:42:54 <davidwood> Resolutions

David Wood: Resolutions

16:42:54 <davidwood> 	1.	Create a UTF version of ntriples in the Turtle REC, while making clear that the ASCII version of ntriples is still acceptable for use.  ASCII ntriples would continue to live in the test cases document.  File extensions and media types should be in conformance to the proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Aug/0170.html http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-08-31#resolution_1

David Wood: 1. Create a UTF version of ntriples in the Turtle REC, while making clear that the ASCII version of ntriples is still acceptable for use.  ASCII ntriples would continue to live in the test cases document.  File extensions and media types should be in conformance to the proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Aug/0170.html http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-08-31#resolution_1

16:44:34 <AndyS> Names : N-triples, N-triples-ascii     (on the wire::  application/n-triples;charset=ascii)

Andy Seaborne: Names : N-triples, N-triples-ascii (on the wire:: application/n-triples;charset=ascii)

16:44:58 <pchampin> gavin: but then, what will we call N-Triples?

Gavin Carothers: but then, what will we call N-Triples?

16:45:02 <sandro> +1 Andy

Sandro Hawke: +1 Andy

16:45:09 <JeremyCarroll> q+

Jeremy Carroll: q+

16:45:17 <zwu2> q-

Zhe Wu: q-

16:45:24 <pchampin> ... this is why the Turtle specs currently says "N prime" (which is a terrible name=

... this is why the Turtle specs currently says "N prime" (which is a terrible name)

16:45:28 <pchampin> s/name=/name)/
16:45:31 <pchampin> q-

q-

16:45:33 <sandro> Same-syntax-different-charset ?

Sandro Hawke: Same-syntax-different-charset ?

16:46:36 <pchampin> jeremy: there is nothing wrong in calling them both N-Triples, as long as content-negociation correctly sorts it out

Jeremy Carroll: there is nothing wrong in calling them both N-Triples, as long as content-negociation correctly sorts it out

16:46:36 <davidwood> Interesting point, JeremyCarroll

David Wood: Interesting point, JeremyCarroll

16:46:39 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:46:40 <pchampin> q+

q+

16:46:47 <ivan> ack JeremyCarroll

Ivan Herman: ack JeremyCarroll

16:46:51 <AndyS> +1 to Jeremy

Andy Seaborne: +1 to Jeremy

16:46:56 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

16:48:00 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

16:48:03 <pchampin> ivan: we are forced to have chaset=utf-8 in the Turtle-UTF8 media type, because the default encoding for text/* media types is ASCII

Ivan Herman: we are forced to have chaset=utf-8 in the Turtle-UTF8 media type, because the default encoding for text/* media types is ASCII

16:48:11 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan

16:48:13 <Guus> ack ivan

Guus Schreiber: ack ivan

16:48:22 <Guus> ack pchampin

Guus Schreiber: ack pchampin

16:49:09 <Guus> ack AndyS

Guus Schreiber: ack AndyS

16:49:12 <AndyS> ack me

Andy Seaborne: ack me

16:49:52 <gavinc> Current document, text/turtle, text/ntriples+turtle

Gavin Carothers: Current document, text/turtle, text/ntriples+turtle

16:49:59 <pchampin> pchampin: agree with Jeremy and Ivan; anyway, the media-types have to be different (as the media-type for N-triples-ascii is text/plain, historically)

Pierre-Antoine Champin: agree with Jeremy and Ivan; anyway, the media-types have to be different (as the media-type for N-triples-ascii is text/plain, historically)

16:50:21 <pchampin> andy: N-triples is hardly human readable, anyway

Andy Seaborne: N-triples is hardly human readable, anyway

16:51:52 <gavinc> PREPOSAL N-Triple has content type 'application/ntriples' and uses the content type paramater charset with allowed values of utf-8 or ascii

Gavin Carothers: PROPOSAL N-Triple has content type 'application/ntriples' and uses the content type parameter charset with allowed values of utf-8 or ascii

16:52:11 <JeremyCarroll> +1

Jeremy Carroll: +1

16:52:18 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

16:52:19 <JeremyCarroll> s/PREPOSAL/PROPOSAL/
16:52:22 <JeremyCarroll> :)

Jeremy Carroll: :)

16:52:57 <gavinc> s/paramater/parameter
16:53:23 <davidwood> s/paramater/parameter/
16:53:26 <pchampin> sandro: you can't say that n-triple is so unreadable that it does not belong to the text/* hierarchy

Sandro Hawke: you can't say that n-triple is so unreadable that it does not belong to the text/* hierarchy

16:53:57 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:54:13 <pchampin> q+

q+

16:54:23 <Guus> ack ivan

Guus Schreiber: ack ivan

16:54:59 <davidwood> +1 to Ivan.  Displaying text/* in browsers is helpful.

David Wood: +1 to Ivan. Displaying text/* in browsers is helpful.

16:55:12 <pchampin> ivan: for me, the fact that it belongs to the text/* hierarchy means that browsers can display the content without any additional application, contrarily to application/* content-types

Ivan Herman: for me, the fact that it belongs to the text/* hierarchy means that browsers can display the content without any additional application, contrarily to application/* content-types

16:55:20 <pchampin> pchampin: +1 to Ivan

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1 to Ivan

16:55:23 <Guus> ack pchampin

Guus Schreiber: ack pchampin

16:55:30 <sandro> +1 text/* means I can use emacs on it.

Sandro Hawke: +1 text/* means I can use emacs on it.

16:55:33 <pchampin> jeremy: I think I disagree

Jeremy Carroll: I think I disagree

16:55:43 <AndyS> text/html is not displayed as source

Andy Seaborne: text/html is not displayed as source

16:55:48 <gavinc> application/xml is editable in emacs

Gavin Carothers: application/xml is editable in emacs

16:56:05 <pchampin> ... think of XML; displaying the angle-brackets is not the best way to display it

... think of XML; displaying the angle-brackets is not the best way to display it

16:56:06 <AndyS> Let's see what else is in text/*

Andy Seaborne: Let's see what else is in text/*

16:56:25 <davidwood> JeremyCarroll, if we were to define a Content-Type for HTML today, I would argue for application/html

David Wood: JeremyCarroll, if we were to define a Content-Type for HTML today, I would argue for application/html

16:56:42 <davidwood> …for the reasons you stated.

David Wood: …for the reasons you stated.

16:57:11 <JeremyCarroll> q+ to summarize media type proposal with respect to turtle as well

Jeremy Carroll: q+ to summarize media type proposal with respect to turtle as well

16:57:13 <zwu2> q+

Zhe Wu: q+

16:57:24 <pchampin> pchampin: no strong opinion about text vs. application

Pierre-Antoine Champin: no strong opinion about text vs. application

16:57:52 <pchampin> ... but for the moment the media type for n-triples is text/plain

... but for the moment the media type for n-triples is text/plain

16:57:59 <pchampin> ... would Oracle agree to change that?

... would Oracle agree to change that?

16:58:40 <gavinc> +q

Gavin Carothers: +q

16:58:45 <Souri> +1 to Zhe's -1

Souripriya Das: +1 to Zhe's -1

16:58:49 <Guus> ack zwu

Guus Schreiber: ack zwu

16:58:55 <AndyS> Surely, if "it" is served as text/plain it's ASCII as currently done

Andy Seaborne: Surely, if "it" is served as text/plain it's ASCII as currently done

16:59:35 <pchampin> zwu: for us, N-Triple is in production, and should not change (neither charset not content-type)

Zhe Wu: for us, N-Triple is in production, and should not change (neither charset not content-type)

17:00:38 <MacTed> N-Triples-ASCII is same as N-Triples (historic); is subset of N-Triples-UTF8

Ted Thibodeau: N-Triples-ASCII is same as N-Triples (historic); is subset of N-Triples-UTF8

17:00:44 <JeremyCarroll> ack me

Jeremy Carroll: ack me

17:00:44 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll, you wanted to summarize media type proposal with respect to turtle as well

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll, you wanted to summarize media type proposal with respect to turtle as well

17:00:56 <Guus> ack JeremyCarroll

Guus Schreiber: ack JeremyCarroll

17:01:05 <Guus> ack gavinc

Guus Schreiber: ack gavinc

17:01:21 <JeremyCarroll> JeremyCarroll: with Gavin's proposal various documents have mutliple legal mimetypes

Jeremy Carroll: with Gavin's proposal various documents have mutliple legal mimetypes [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ]

17:01:32 <AndyS> q+ to ask we spend some time on next steps to keep things moving over the week.

Andy Seaborne: q+ to ask we spend some time on next steps to keep things moving over the week.

17:01:45 <Souri> q+

Souripriya Das: q+

17:02:00 <pchampin> gavin: N-Triple was explicitly not intended to become a standard format

Gavin Carothers: N-Triple was explicitly not intended to become a standard format

17:02:04 <AndyS> ack me

Andy Seaborne: ack me

17:02:04 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask we spend some time on next steps to keep things moving over the week.

Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask we spend some time on next steps to keep things moving over the week.

17:02:05 <zwu2> q+

Zhe Wu: q+

17:02:06 <JeremyCarroll> JeremyCarroll: e.g. an ascii ntriples doc can be served as text/plain applicaiton/ntriples, ascii; alpplicaiton/ntriples utf8; text/turtle utf8

Jeremy Carroll: e.g. an ascii ntriples doc can be served as text/plain applicaiton/ntriples, ascii; alpplicaiton/ntriples utf8; text/turtle utf8 [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ]

17:02:19 <JeremyCarroll> q+ to add to gavin's point

Jeremy Carroll: q+ to add to gavin's point

17:02:44 <JeremyCarroll> Jeremy: strong disagreement with Souri

Jeremy Carroll: strong disagreement with Souri [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ]

17:02:49 <pfps> +1 to gavin - anyone can object to anything, and this is a serious bar to change, but certainly not an absolute bar

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to gavin - anyone can object to anything, and this is a serious bar to change, but certainly not an absolute bar

17:03:05 <ericP> q?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q?

17:03:11 <Souri> q-

Souripriya Das: q-

17:03:21 <Guus> ack zwu

Guus Schreiber: ack zwu

17:03:23 <pchampin> souri: extending n-triple it is ok as soon as it maintaisn backward compatibility

Souripriya Das: extending n-triple it is ok as soon as it maintaisn backward compatibility

17:03:35 <ericP> q+ to ask about rev'ing tools vs. rev'ing written data

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to ask about rev'ing tools vs. rev'ing written data

17:04:12 <Guus> ack JeremyCarroll

Guus Schreiber: ack JeremyCarroll

17:04:12 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll, you wanted to add to gavin's point

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll, you wanted to add to gavin's point

17:04:16 <JeremyCarroll> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-testcases/#ntriples

Jeremy Carroll: http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-testcases/#ntriples

17:04:49 <JeremyCarroll> NOTE : N-Triples is an RDF syntax for expressing RDF test cases and defining the correspondence between RDF/XML and the RDF abstract syntax. RDF/XML [RDF-SYNTAX] is the recommended syntax for applications to exchange RDF information.

Jeremy Carroll: NOTE : N-Triples is an RDF syntax for expressing RDF test cases and defining the correspondence between RDF/XML and the RDF abstract syntax. RDF/XML [RDF-SYNTAX] is the recommended syntax for applications to exchange RDF information.

17:05:52 <zwu2> q+

Zhe Wu: q+

17:06:04 <pchampin> q+

q+

17:06:44 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

17:06:44 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted

17:07:38 <Souri> q+

Souripriya Das: q+

17:07:56 <pfps> Further, there has been no previous attempt (that I am aware of) to promote n-triples to an interchange syntax.

Peter Patel-Schneider: Further, there has been no previous attempt (that I am aware of) to promote n-triples to an interchange syntax.

17:08:02 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

17:08:02 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

17:08:10 <pchampin> jeremy: zwu and souri can not oppose to us a language that they used in a way that was explicitly discouraged by the spec

Jeremy Carroll: zwu and souri can not oppose to us a language that they used in a way that was explicitly discouraged by the spec

17:08:20 <sandro> ted: The retrofit is the responsibility of the implementor who did not read the standard.

Ted Thibodeau: The retrofit is the responsibility of the implementor who did not read the standard. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

17:08:34 <pchampin> zwu: but now, the market reality is here, we should take it into account

Zhe Wu: but now, the market reality is here, we should take it into account

17:08:58 <pchampin> q?

q?

17:09:20 <Guus> ack EricP

Guus Schreiber: ack EricP

17:09:20 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to ask about rev'ing tools vs. rev'ing written data

Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to ask about rev'ing tools vs. rev'ing written data

17:09:50 <gavinc> N-Triples is excellent, lets make it a standard!

Gavin Carothers: N-Triples is excellent, lets make it a standard!

17:09:53 <davidwood> From the charter:  "The mission of the RDF Working Group, part of the Semantic Web Activity, is to update the 2004 version of the Resource Description Framework (RDF) Recommendation. The scope of work is to extend RDF to include some of the features that the community has identified as both desirable and important for interoperability based on experience with the 2004 version of the standard, but *without having a negative effect on existing deployment effort

David Wood: From the charter: "The mission of the RDF Working Group, part of the Semantic Web Activity, is to update the 2004 version of the Resource Description Framework (RDF) Recommendation. The scope of work is to extend RDF to include some of the features that the community has identified as both desirable and important for interoperability based on experience with the 2004 version of the standard, but *without having a negative effect on existing deployment effort

17:09:57 <Souri> q-

Souripriya Das: q-

17:10:01 <davidwood> Unfortunate or not

David Wood: Unfortunate or not

17:10:21 <AndyS> I have not seen any proposal that invalidates existing N-triples data.

Andy Seaborne: I have not seen any proposal that invalidates existing N-triples data.

17:10:29 <JeremyCarroll> +1 to AndyS

Jeremy Carroll: +1 to AndyS

17:11:02 <davidwood> Well, yes, but the Content-Type would still be an issue beyond the data.

David Wood: Well, yes, but the Content-Type would still be an issue beyond the data.

17:11:09 <sandro> Still...    what if there is old SOFTWARE ?   *it* will break on seeing the new N-Triples data.

Sandro Hawke: Still... what if there is old SOFTWARE ? *it* will break on seeing the new N-Triples data.

17:11:18 <gavinc> Yes.

Gavin Carothers: Yes.

17:11:20 <pchampin> gavin: anything considered to be n-triples is acceptable by the Turtle grammar

Gavin Carothers: anything considered to be n-triples is acceptable by the Turtle grammar

17:11:26 <JeremyCarroll> old software will break on *any* change

Jeremy Carroll: old software will break on *any* change

17:11:33 <ericP> sandro, how's http://128.30.55.213/rdf/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes look to you?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: sandro, how's http://128.30.55.213/rdf/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes look to you?

17:11:39 <Guus> ack pchampin

Guus Schreiber: ack pchampin

17:11:45 <Guus> ack zwu

Guus Schreiber: ack zwu

17:11:51 <pchampin> q-

q-

17:13:57 <pchampin> guus: could eric come up with a proposal for ISSUE-73 and ISSUE-74

Guus Schreiber: could eric come up with a proposal for ISSUE-73 and ISSUE-74

17:14:04 <pchampin> ISSUE-73?

ISSUE-73?

17:14:04 <trackbot> ISSUE-73 -- IRI_REF vs. IRIref -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-73 -- IRI_REF vs. IRIref -- open

17:14:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/73

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/73

17:14:07 <pchampin> ISSUE-74?

ISSUE-74?

17:14:07 <trackbot> ISSUE-74 -- Prefixed names and slashes -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-74 -- Prefixed names and slashes -- open

17:14:07 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/74

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/74

17:14:12 <ericP> http://128.30.55.213/rdf/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes

Eric Prud'hommeaux: http://128.30.55.213/rdf/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-escapes

17:14:20 <sandro> ericP, I'm pretty happy with the table.

Sandro Hawke: ericP, I'm pretty happy with the table.

17:15:04 <AndyS> I'm happy to change the SPARQL names.

Andy Seaborne: I'm happy to change the SPARQL names.

17:15:13 <AndyS> (likely grammar update anyway)

Andy Seaborne: (likely grammar update anyway)

17:16:00 <pchampin> eric: issue-73 should be solved consistently in Turtle and SPARQL

Eric Prud'hommeaux: ISSUE-73 should be solved consistently in Turtle and SPARQL

17:16:49 <pchampin> guus: volunteers for reviewing the draft?

Guus Schreiber: volunteers for reviewing the draft?

17:16:53 <pchampin> andy: I volunteer

Andy Seaborne: I volunteer

17:17:33 <pchampin> guus: will differ the choice of a 2nd volunteer until next week

Guus Schreiber: will differ the choice of a 2nd volunteer until next week

17:17:38 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

17:17:39 <Zakim> -JeremyCarroll

Zakim IRC Bot: -JeremyCarroll

17:17:40 <Zakim> -FabGandon

Zakim IRC Bot: -FabGandon

17:17:40 <AZ_> bye

Antoine Zimmermann: bye

17:17:43 <Zakim> -davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood

17:17:45 <Zakim> -AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ

17:17:46 <Zakim> -cgreer

Zakim IRC Bot: -cgreer

17:17:48 <Zakim> -zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2

17:17:49 <Zakim> - +1.603.897.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.603.897.aagg

17:17:50 <Zakim> -pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps

17:17:51 <Zakim> -AlexHall

Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexHall

17:17:53 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

17:17:54 <pchampin> ADJOURNED

ADJOURNED

17:17:56 <Zakim> -yvesr

Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr

17:17:58 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

17:19:06 <gavinc> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Gavin Carothers: Zakim, who is on the phone?

17:19:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavinc, sandro, Guus, pchampin, AndyS, LeeF, EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see gavinc, sandro, Guus, pchampin, AndyS, LeeF, EricP

17:19:18 <Guus> :-)

Guus Schreiber: :-)

17:20:30 <Zakim> -sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -sandro

17:20:42 <Zakim> -Guus

Zakim IRC Bot: -Guus



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This revision (#1) generated 2012-03-07 17:31:10 UTC by 'pchampin', comments: None