RDF Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 11 January 2012

Agenda
RDFa working group last call
Seen
Andy Seaborne, Antoine Zimmermann, Arnaud Le Hors, Charles Greer, David Wood, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Gavin Carothers, Ivan Herman, Jeremy Carroll, Lee Feigenbaum, Mischa Tuffield, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Richard Cyganiak, Sandro Hawke, Souripriya Das, Steve Harris, Ted Thibodeau, Yves Raimond
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions

None.

Topics
15:54:04 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/11-rdf-wg-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/11-rdf-wg-irc

15:54:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

15:54:08 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394

15:54:08 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

15:54:09 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:54:09 <trackbot> Date: 11 January 2012
15:56:05 <yvesr> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Yves Raimond: Zakim, who is on the phone?

15:56:05 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, yvesr

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, yvesr

15:56:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see Guus, cygri, Zakim, RRSAgent, AZ, MacTed, LeeF, mischat, ivan, SteveH, AndyS1, manu, davidwood, mdmdm_, gavinc, trackbot, yvesr, manu1, NickH, sandro, ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Guus, cygri, Zakim, RRSAgent, AZ, MacTed, LeeF, mischat, ivan, SteveH, AndyS1, manu, davidwood, mdmdm_, gavinc, trackbot, yvesr, manu1, NickH, sandro, ericP

15:57:11 <ericP> i'll be 10 mins late...

Eric Prud'hommeaux: i'll be 10 mins late...

15:59:44 <swh> Zakim, who's on the phone?

Steve Harris: Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:59:44 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, swh

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, swh

15:59:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see swh, Guus, cygri, Zakim, RRSAgent, AZ, MacTed, LeeF, mischat, ivan, AndyS1, manu, davidwood, mdmdm_, gavinc, trackbot, yvesr, manu1, NickH, sandro, ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see swh, Guus, cygri, Zakim, RRSAgent, AZ, MacTed, LeeF, mischat, ivan, AndyS1, manu, davidwood, mdmdm_, gavinc, trackbot, yvesr, manu1, NickH, sandro, ericP

15:59:59 <gavinc> Zakim, start meeting

Gavin Carothers: Zakim, start meeting

16:00:00 <Zakim> I don't understand 'start meeting', gavinc

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'start meeting', gavinc

16:00:12 <swh> Zakim, this will be RDF-WG

Steve Harris: Zakim, this will be RDF-WG

16:00:12 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, swh

Zakim IRC Bot: I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, swh

16:00:14 <gavinc> Zakim this is rdfwf

Gavin Carothers: Zakim this is rdfwf

16:00:44 <swh> Zakim, this will be RDFWG

Steve Harris: Zakim, this will be RDFWG

16:00:44 <Zakim> ok, swh, I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM already started

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, swh, I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM already started

16:00:53 <swh> Zakim, who's on the phone?

Steve Harris: Zakim, who's on the phone?

16:00:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, gavinc, ??P2, +1.206.494.aaaa, mhausenblas, cgreer

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P0, gavinc, ??P2, +1.206.494.aaaa, mhausenblas, cgreer

16:00:55 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me

Richard Cyganiak: zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me

16:00:57 <Zakim> +cygri; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it

16:00:59 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P0 is me

Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P0 is me

16:01:03 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it

16:01:25 <Zakim> +??P10

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10

16:01:32 <AndyS> zakim, ??P10 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P10 is me

16:01:34 <swh> Zakim, ??P2 is me

Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P2 is me

16:01:35 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

16:01:41 <Zakim> +swh; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +swh; got it

16:01:45 <Zakim> +??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11

16:01:49 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?

Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone?

16:01:50 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

16:01:56 <mischat> zakim, ??P11 is me

Mischa Tuffield: zakim, ??P11 is me

16:01:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see yvesr, gavinc, swh, +1.206.494.aaaa, cygri, cgreer, AndyS, ??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see yvesr, gavinc, swh, +1.206.494.aaaa, cygri, cgreer, AndyS, ??P11

16:01:59 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

16:02:01 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

16:02:01 <AZ> zakim, aaaa is me

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, aaaa is me

16:02:09 <Zakim> +mischat; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +mischat; got it

16:02:13 <Zakim> +AZ; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it

16:02:16 <mischat> zakim, mute me

Mischa Tuffield: zakim, mute me

16:02:17 <Zakim> + +1.408.996.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.408.996.aabb

16:02:37 <Zakim> mischat should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: mischat should now be muted

16:02:46 <Arnaud> zakim, aabb is me

Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, aabb is me

16:03:13 <Zakim> +Arnaud; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud; got it

16:03:35 <Zakim> +sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +sandro

16:04:26 <Zakim> +David_Wood

Zakim IRC Bot: +David_Wood

16:04:46 <davidwood> Zakim, David_Wood is me

David Wood: Zakim, David_Wood is me

16:04:47 <Zakim> +davidwood; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood; got it

16:04:53 <Zakim> +LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF

16:05:05 <mischat> davidwood: ww is not here today, i will scribe

David Wood: ww is not here today, i will scribe [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:05:27 <mischat> davidwood: i will send you an email on that front

David Wood: i will send you an email on that front [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:05:42 <davidwood> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 4 Jan telecon:

David Wood: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 4 Jan telecon:

16:05:42 <davidwood>    http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-01-04

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-01-04

16:05:53 <mischat> davidwood: any objections to accepting the minutes ?

David Wood: any objections to accepting the minutes ? [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:06:02 <mischat> RESOLVE accept minutes

Mischa Tuffield: RESOLVE accept minutes

16:06:05 <davidwood> Action item review:

David Wood: Action item review:

16:06:05 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - item

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - item

16:06:05 <davidwood>    http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview

16:06:05 <davidwood>    http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open

16:06:40 <mischat> davidwood: moving on to open actions …

David Wood: moving on to open actions … [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:07:00 <Zakim> +JeremyCarroll

Zakim IRC Bot: +JeremyCarroll

16:07:09 <mischat> davidwood: sandro any update on action 82(?)

David Wood: sandro any update on ACTION-82(?) [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:07:16 <sandro> action-82?

Sandro Hawke: ACTION-82?

16:07:16 <trackbot> ACTION-82 -- Sandro Hawke to draft well-known URI template and propose WG resolution that it is "stable" enough for IETF. -- due 2011-09-14 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-82 -- Sandro Hawke to draft well-known URI template and propose WG resolution that it is "stable" enough for IETF. -- due 2011-09-14 -- OPEN

16:07:16 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/82

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/82

16:07:25 <mischat> davidwood: any updates on action 98 ?

David Wood: any updates on ACTION-98 ? [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:07:33 <mischat> action-98 ?

Mischa Tuffield: ACTION-98 ?

16:07:33 <trackbot> ACTION-98 -- Sandro Hawke to rdf: and rdfs: namespace should resolve to something that meets best practices -- due 2011-12-31 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-98 -- Sandro Hawke to rdf: and rdfs: namespace should resolve to something that meets best practices -- due 2011-12-31 -- OPEN

16:07:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/98

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/98

16:08:01 <mischat> davidwood: shouldn't this be something for the w3c systems team

David Wood: shouldn't this be something for the w3c systems team [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:08:15 <mischat> davidwood: should someone else do this action?

David Wood: should someone else do this action? [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:08:55 <mischat> sandro: should we be following what the foaf ns does ?

Sandro Hawke: should we be following what the foaf ns does ? [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:08:59 <Zakim> +Souri

Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri

16:09:43 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

16:09:43 <mischat> davidwood: should we do it the way SKOS does it ?

David Wood: should we do it the way SKOS does it ? [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:10:03 <mischat> JeremyCarroll: is sandro being too picky here ?

Jeremy Carroll: is sandro being too picky here ? [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:10:24 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-vocab-pub/

Richard Cyganiak: http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-vocab-pub/

16:10:32 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

16:10:33 <mischat> cygri: there is a document best practices for the vocabs

Richard Cyganiak: there is a document best practices for the vocabs [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:10:36 <yvesr> i think danbri is not overly keen on the way FOAF is published

Yves Raimond: i think danbri is not overly keen on the way FOAF is published

16:10:39 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

16:10:39 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

16:10:40 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

16:10:40 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

16:10:41 <mischat> cygri: we should follow the above document ^^

Richard Cyganiak: we should follow the above document ^^ [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:10:45 <yvesr> mainly because they're stuck on 0.1 :)

Yves Raimond: mainly because they're stuck on 0.1 :)

16:11:10 <mischat> sandro: what is the user experience when users as for HTML

Sandro Hawke: what is the user experience when users as for HTML [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:11:10 <mischat> ?

Mischa Tuffield: ?

16:11:40 <mischat> JeremyCarroll: we need 10 lines of HTML, here is the RDF, this is the namespace

Jeremy Carroll: we need 10 lines of HTML, here is the RDF, this is the namespace [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:12:01 <mischat> sandro: doesn't want to do that project

Sandro Hawke: doesn't want to do that project [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:12:03 <Zakim> +EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP

16:12:34 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#type

Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#type

16:12:47 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/ns/formats/Turtle

Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/ns/formats/Turtle

16:12:48 <mischat> davidwood: right now if we resolve a url like above ^^, as it stands we get no HTML

David Wood: right now if we resolve a url like above ^^, as it stands we get no HTML [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:13:10 <mischat> davidwood: we shouldn't get RDFXML when asking for a human readable document

David Wood: we shouldn't get RDFXML when asking for a human readable document [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:13:52 <gavinc> eh, _n isn't that bad in javascript ;)

Gavin Carothers: eh, _n isn't that bad in javascript ;)

16:14:14 <mischat> davidwood: so where are we at now …

David Wood: so where are we at now … [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:14:18 <sandro> zakim, who is making noise?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is making noise?

16:14:28 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: cgreer (9%), Arnaud (5%), sandro (34%), davidwood (30%)

Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: cgreer (9%), Arnaud (5%), sandro (34%), davidwood (30%)

16:14:58 <mischat> agenda: RDFa working group last call
16:15:12 <mischat> davidwood: manu asks us to review the RDFa documents

David Wood: manu asks us to review the RDFa documents [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:15:26 <mischat> davidwood: davidwood will ping Guus about this

David Wood: davidwood will ping Guus about this [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:15:45 <mischat> davidwood: charles have you reviewed the RDFa doc ?

David Wood: charles have you reviewed the RDFa doc ? [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:15:53 <Zakim> -JeremyCarroll

Zakim IRC Bot: -JeremyCarroll

16:16:09 <mischat> charles : happy with the RDFa doc he reviewed

Mischa Tuffield: charles : happy with the RDFa doc he reviewed

16:16:45 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:16:47 <mischat> davidwood: we should be reviewing the document in terms of what the RDF WG are interested in document

David Wood: we should be reviewing the document in terms of what the RDF WG are interested in document [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:17:01 <cygri> q-

Richard Cyganiak: q-

16:17:03 <mischat> davidwood: was reviewing with an RDF WG hat on

David Wood: was reviewing with an RDF WG hat on [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:17:11 <davidwood> ack ivan

David Wood: ack ivan

16:17:33 <mischat> ivan: charles please submit under your own name

Ivan Herman: cgreer please submit under your own name [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:17:34 <gavinc> +q to ask about CURIEs

Gavin Carothers: +q to ask about CURIEs

16:17:56 <mischat> ivan: you can tell from the RDFa, that they are staying clear of the named graph issue

Ivan Herman: you can tell from the RDFa, that they are staying clear of the named graph issue [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:17:58 <davidwood> ack gavinc

David Wood: ack gavinc

16:17:58 <Zakim> gavinc, you wanted to ask about CURIEs

Zakim IRC Bot: gavinc, you wanted to ask about CURIEs

16:18:04 <mischat> s/charles/cgreer/
16:18:18 <mischat> gavinc: has gone through the RDFa curie's section

Gavin Carothers: has gone through the RDFa curie's section [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:18:37 <mischat> gavinc: was wondering whether we should comment on the differences between CURIEs and prefixing ?

Gavin Carothers: was wondering whether we should comment on the differences between CURIEs and prefixing ? [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:18:47 <mischat> ivan: which difference are you referring to ?

Ivan Herman: which difference are you referring to ? [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:19:24 <cygri> q+ to ask whether they aren't the same now

Richard Cyganiak: q+ to ask whether they aren't the same now

16:19:25 <mischat> gavinc: the set of URIs which can be represented in CURIES is different from the set of IRIs that SPARQL's & RDF prefixes can represent

Gavin Carothers: the set of URIs which can be represented in CURIES is different from the set of IRIs that SPARQL's & RDF prefixes can represent [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:19:39 <mischat> gavinc: CURIEs don't work with XML

Gavin Carothers: CURIEs don't work with XML [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:19:51 <mischat> gavinc: CURIE has a broader set than XML names

Gavin Carothers: CURIE has a broader set than XML names [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:20:04 <mischat> gavinc: XML names are valid CURIES and prefix names …

Gavin Carothers: XML names are valid CURIES and prefix names … [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:20:14 <Zakim> +JeremyCarroll

Zakim IRC Bot: +JeremyCarroll

16:20:28 <mischat> gavinc: we talked about this when talking about Turtle

Gavin Carothers: we talked about this when talking about Turtle [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:20:41 <ericP> q?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q?

16:20:57 <mischat> davidwood: it would be happy if this would be noted in the spec

David Wood: it would be happy if this would be noted in the spec [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:21:07 <mischat> davidwood: because it is a syntax issue

David Wood: because it is a syntax issue [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:21:11 <AndyS> CURIE is very open : prefix+local for anything, then says other syntaxes can restrict.

Andy Seaborne: CURIE is very open : prefix+local for anything, then says other syntaxes can restrict.

16:21:14 <davidwood> ack cygri

David Wood: ack cygri

16:21:14 <Zakim> cygri, you wanted to ask whether they aren't the same now

Zakim IRC Bot: cygri, you wanted to ask whether they aren't the same now

16:21:20 <mischat> cygri: can you give an example please ?

Richard Cyganiak: can you give an example please ? [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:21:35 <mischat> gavinc: not right now

Gavin Carothers: not right now [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:21:37 <cygri> ack me���

Richard Cyganiak: ack me���

16:21:56 <mischat> JeremyCarroll: 2 use-case to motivated CURIE, 1) ending in numbers

Jeremy Carroll: 2 use-case to motivated CURIE, 1) ending in numbers [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:22:01 <mischat> as per the IPTC

Mischa Tuffield: as per the IPTC

16:22:24 <mischat> ivan: would like to see a very detailed example please :)

Ivan Herman: would like to see a very detailed example please :) [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:22:31 <cygri> thanks in advance gavinc!

Richard Cyganiak: thanks in advance gavinc!

16:22:36 <mischat> davidwood: before next week please

David Wood: before next week please [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:22:47 <mischat> ericP: you have 2 hours ;)

Eric Prud'hommeaux: you have 2 hours ;) [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:23:00 <mischat> moving on …

Mischa Tuffield: moving on …

16:23:27 <mischat> davidwood: sandro or ivan, what is the best way to get these comments from this WG to the RDFa WG ?

David Wood: sandro or ivan, what is the best way to get these comments from this WG to the RDFa WG ? [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:23:38 <mischat> ivan: ideally we should send the comments to their mailing list

Ivan Herman: ideally we should send the comments to their mailing list [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:24:12 <mischat> ivan: because when they go to CR, it will be easier for the RDFa folks to handle. Please send comments to the RDFa mailing list

Ivan Herman: because when they go to CR, it will be easier for the RDFa folks to handle. Please send comments to the RDFa mailing list [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:24:22 <mischat> davidwood: a link to the public-comments list ?

David Wood: a link to the public-comments list ? [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:24:38 <mischat> ivan: please use the rdfa wg's list

Ivan Herman: please use the rdfa wg's list [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:24:44 <ivan> W3C RDFWA WG <public-rdfa-wg@w3.org>

Ivan Herman: W3C RDFWA WG <public-rdfa-wg@w3.org>

16:25:21 <mischat> ivan:  please use ^^

Ivan Herman: please use ^^ [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:25:23 <gavinc> hey look an example! CURIE: db:resource/Albert_Einstein vs. PNAME db:resource\/Albert_Einstein that's just escaping, will see about others

Gavin Carothers: hey look an example! CURIE: db:resource/Albert_Einstein vs. PNAME db:resource\/Albert_Einstein that's just escaping, will see about others

16:25:49 <mischat> topic: named graphs

1. named graphs

16:26:19 <mischat> davidwood: sandro wanted Pat's on scoping, Pat sent an email about it

David Wood: sandro wanted Pat's on scoping, Pat sent an email about it [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:26:31 <mischat> davidwood: Pat would rather not have bnodes in the 4th column

David Wood: Pat would rather not have bnodes in the 4th column [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:26:45 <swh> +1 to not allowing bNodes in the 4th slot

Steve Harris: +1 to not allowing bNodes in the 4th slot

16:26:45 <mischat> davidwood: can we make progress based on cygri being here and Pat's email.

David Wood: can we make progress based on cygri being here and Pat's email. [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:27:08 <davidwood> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Jan/0033.html: "2c: if we allow bnodes in the 4th position, then please lets make a firm decision what their intended scope is going to be, and that they cannot also occur in other positions in the same graph store. But I vote to not allow bnodes in 4th position in any case."

David Wood: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Jan/0033.html: "2c: if we allow bnodes in the 4th position, then please lets make a firm decision what their intended scope is going to be, and that they cannot also occur in other positions in the same graph store. But I vote to not allow bnodes in 4th position in any case."

16:27:20 <mischat> davidwood: Pat's comments re: bnode in 4th slot ^^

David Wood: Pat's comments re: bnode in 4th slot ^^ [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:27:25 <cygri> q+ to suggest straw poll, let's allow only IRIs in the 4th slot

Richard Cyganiak: q+ to suggest straw poll, let's allow only IRIs in the 4th slot

16:27:37 <mischat> +1 to not having them either

Mischa Tuffield: +1 to not having them either

16:27:54 <mischat> sandro: the scope for bnode is a document

Sandro Hawke: the scope for bnode is a document [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:28:40 <Zakim> -davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood

16:28:42 <mischat> sandro: doesn't think that Pat's comment address his use-case from last week

Sandro Hawke: doesn't think that Pat's comment address his use-case from last week [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:28:47 <JeremyCarroll> q+

Jeremy Carroll: q+

16:29:13 <mischat> cygri: is confused, quote from Pat was about bnodes and not IRI

Richard Cyganiak: is confused, quote from Pat was about bnodes and not IRI [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:29:22 <mischat> i parsed that from the conversation too, fwiwi

Mischa Tuffield: i parsed that from the conversation too, fwiwi

16:29:26 <Zakim> +??P22

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22

16:29:38 <mischat> cygri: are we considering using bnodes in the 4th slot ?

Richard Cyganiak: are we considering using bnodes in the 4th slot ? [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:29:45 <Zakim> +davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood

16:30:10 <mischat> cygri: as all the existing syntax, sparql, currently don't support bnodes in the 4th slot

Richard Cyganiak: as all the existing syntax, sparql, currently don't support bnodes in the 4th slot [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:30:28 <AZ> NQuads allows anything in 4th position

Antoine Zimmermann: NQuads allows anything in 4th position

16:30:36 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

16:30:43 <cygri> ack me

Richard Cyganiak: ack me

16:30:43 <Zakim> cygri, you wanted to suggest straw poll, let's allow only IRIs in the 4th slot

Zakim IRC Bot: cygri, you wanted to suggest straw poll, let's allow only IRIs in the 4th slot

16:30:46 <mischat> ericP: you can use a variable which matches in a bnode in SPARQL

Eric Prud'hommeaux: you can use a variable which matches in a bnode in SPARQL [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:31:05 <cygri> AZ, fair enough

Richard Cyganiak: AZ, fair enough

16:31:17 <mischat> AndyS: you can use it in SPARQL query, but datasets don't allow for bnodes in the 4th slot

Andy Seaborne: you can use it in SPARQL query, but datasets don't allow for bnodes in the 4th slot [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:31:18 <davidwood> ack JeremyCarroll

David Wood: ack JeremyCarroll

16:31:35 <sandro> andy: SPARQL datasets dont allow bnodes in the URI part of the pair

Andy Seaborne: SPARQL datasets dont allow bnodes in the URI part of the pair [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:31:40 <mischat> JeremyCarroll: re-capping conversation with Pat from 6 years back

Jeremy Carroll: re-capping conversation with Pat from 6 years back [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:31:50 <mischat> JeremyCarroll: wanted the bnodes in the 4th slot, as he is a big fan

Jeremy Carroll: wanted the bnodes in the 4th slot, as he is a big fan [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:31:53 <AndyS> (checking) sandro UC is convenience of not needing to mint a URI

Andy Seaborne: (checking) sandro UC is convenience of not needing to mint a IRI

16:32:05 <AndyS> s/URI/IRI/ <<--- arrg
16:32:11 <ericP> q?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q?

16:32:22 <mischat> JeremyCarroll: couldn't see how to get the RDF graph isomorphism with bnodes in 4th slot

Jeremy Carroll: couldn't see how to get the RDF graph isomorphism with bnodes in 4th slot [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:32:40 <mischat> JeremyCarroll: this causes problems when software testing

Jeremy Carroll: this causes problems when software testing [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:32:49 <ericP> q+ to ask if that's an artifact of the popular algorythm for isomorphisms

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to ask if that's an artifact of the popular algorythm for isomorphisms

16:33:20 <swh> q+ to talk about use

Steve Harris: q+ to talk about use

16:33:30 <mischat> sandro: doesn't want bnodes in the 4th slot, but we haven't agreed on a design for our use-cases

Sandro Hawke: doesn't want bnodes in the 4th slot, but we haven't agreed on a design for our use-cases [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:34:08 <ericP> JeremyCarroll, if i exhaust a mapping of bnodes to bnodes, why would the additional permutations of having a graph named by a bnode be any harder than the other permutations?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: JeremyCarroll, if i exhaust a mapping of bnodes to bnodes, why would the additional permutations of having a graph named by a bnode be any harder than the other permutations?

16:34:09 <mischat> sandro: and dismissing bnodes there, is limiting our final design space, i.e. why limit ourselves now, before we have a design, based upon agreed use-cases

Sandro Hawke: and dismissing bnodes there, is limiting our final design space, i.e. why limit ourselves now, before we have a design, based upon agreed use-cases [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:34:13 <gavinc> on the other hand, constricting the design space can help force a design?

Gavin Carothers: on the other hand, constricting the design space can help force a design?

16:34:29 <mischat> davidwood: can you walk through the use-case, which you think definitely requires a bnode there

David Wood: can you walk through the use-case, which you think definitely requires a bnode there [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:35:35 <mischat> sandro: if you want to state that "dave asserts these triples", would require a IRI, but a bnode would allow us not to mint a new IRI

Sandro Hawke: if you want to state that "dave asserts these triples", would require a IRI, but a bnode would allow us not to mint a new IRI [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:35:52 <AndyS> q+ to say IF we allow 4th slot bNodes, THEN limiting such bNodes to only 4th slot seems rather odd.

Andy Seaborne: q+ to say IF we allow 4th slot bNodes, THEN limiting such bNodes to only 4th slot seems rather odd.

16:36:05 <mischat> JeremyCarroll: skolemisation is the work around for this

Jeremy Carroll: skolemisation is the work around for this [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:36:56 <sandro> JeremyCarroll: In general using blank nodes is a good way to indicate that we didnt have a good way to agree on a URI for the thing.

Jeremy Carroll: In general using blank nodes is a good way to indicate that we didnt have a good way to agree on a URI for the thing. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:36:58 <mischat> JeremyCarroll: a blank-node would allow different people to articulate that they are talking about the same thing, without agreeing upon what the IRI should be minted before hand

Jeremy Carroll: a blank-node would allow different people to articulate that they are talking about the same thing, without agreeing upon what the IRI should be minted before hand [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:36:58 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

16:37:03 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:37:16 <davidwood> ack ericP

David Wood: ack ericP

16:37:16 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to ask if that's an artifact of the popular algorythm for isomorphisms

Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to ask if that's an artifact of the popular algorythm for isomorphisms

16:37:39 <yvesr> JeremyCarroll, +1 - skolemisation would imply reconciliation a-posteriori, but i think i also understand why it could be a cause fo concerns

Yves Raimond: JeremyCarroll, +1 - skolemisation would imply reconciliation a-posteriori, but i think i also understand why it could be a cause fo concerns

16:38:36 <sandro> JeremyCarroll: If one bnode is also used as a graph name, then isomorphism is more complicated

Jeremy Carroll: If one bnode is also used as a graph name, then isomorphism is more complicated [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:38:47 <swh> q-

Steve Harris: q-

16:39:02 <davidwood> ack AndyS

David Wood: ack AndyS

16:39:02 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to say IF we allow 4th slot bNodes, THEN limiting such bNodes to only 4th slot seems rather odd.

Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to say IF we allow 4th slot bNodes, THEN limiting such bNodes to only 4th slot seems rather odd.

16:39:36 <mischat> AndyS: Pat's point about if used in 4th slot, is not clear

Andy Seaborne: Pat's point about if used in 4th slot, is not clear [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:41:04 <AZ> q+ to say that what's allowed in the 4th slot probably depends on what it identifies

Antoine Zimmermann: q+ to say that what's allowed in the 4th slot probably depends on what it identifies

16:41:10 <JeremyCarroll> q+

Jeremy Carroll: q+

16:41:16 <mischat> AndyS: there is a balance to be struck, sometimes it is better to mint a URI, we should find if there is a use-case for not wanting to name a set of triples

Andy Seaborne: there is a balance to be struck, sometimes it is better to mint a URI, we should find if there is a use-case for not wanting to name a set of triples [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:41:25 <mischat> AndyS: perhaps using the "_".

Andy Seaborne: perhaps using the "_". [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:42:16 <swh> q+

Steve Harris: q+

16:42:23 <mischat> JeremyCarroll: AndyS was suggesting that bnodes used in the 4th column shouldn't be used in the g-snap named by that bnode

Jeremy Carroll: AndyS was suggesting that bnodes used in the 4th column shouldn't be used in the g-snap named by that bnode [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:42:39 <davidwood> ack ivan

David Wood: ack ivan

16:42:52 <mischat> sandro: we shouldn't limit our design space without clear objective/use-cases in mind

Sandro Hawke: we shouldn't limit our design space without clear objective/use-cases in mind [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:43:21 <sandro> sandro: we should build up designs, rather than chopping off options blindly

Sandro Hawke: we should build up designs, rather than chopping off options blindly [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:43:51 <sandro> +1 ivan: it's like the use of [...] in turtle

Sandro Hawke: +1 ivan: it's like the use of [...] in turtle

16:43:56 <swh> +1 to ivan

Steve Harris: +1 to ivan

16:44:17 <AndyS> Relative IRIs do that?  e.g. <#abc1>

Andy Seaborne: Relative IRIs do that? e.g. <#abc1>

16:44:19 <swh> maybe .well-known/genid

Steve Harris: maybe .well-known/genid

16:44:21 <JeremyCarroll> JeremyCarroll: we could restrict bnodes as graph names to ones that are only used in graphs named with an IRI

Jeremy Carroll: we could restrict bnodes as graph names to ones that are only used in graphs named with an IRI [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ]

16:44:23 <mischat> ivan: do we need a way in the syntax to mint a new IRI for a use, which is scoped to a document. Bnodes are used in turtle, for when users don't care or want to mint a new IRI, something like [ … ] in bnode, which mints a new IRI and not a bnode

Ivan Herman: do we need a way in the syntax to mint a new IRI for a use, which is scoped to a document. Bnodes are used in turtle, for when users don't care or want to mint a new IRI, something like [ … ] in bnode, which mints a new IRI and not a bnode [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:44:36 <mischat> personally that is why I use bnodes

Mischa Tuffield: personally that is why I use bnodes

16:44:37 <JeremyCarroll> JeremyCarroll: that wouild meet most of my objections, and maybe Pat's

Jeremy Carroll: that wouild meet most of my objections, and maybe Pat's [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ]

16:45:02 <JeremyCarroll> JeremyCarroll: this for me, proves Sandro's point, that we shouldn't chop off the design space a priori

Jeremy Carroll: this for me, proves Sandro's point, that we shouldn't chop off the design space a priori [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ]

16:45:05 <mischat> AndyS: if you parse a file with that syntatic sugar, would you get the same IRI generated ?

Andy Seaborne: if you parse a file with that syntatic sugar, would you get the same IRI generated ? [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:45:22 <pchampin> q+

Pierre-Antoine Champin: q+

16:45:27 <JeremyCarroll> q-

Jeremy Carroll: q-

16:45:58 <pchampin> q-

Pierre-Antoine Champin: q-

16:46:01 <mischat> ivan: most people use bnodes when they don't want/care to mint a new IRI

Ivan Herman: most people use bnodes when they don't want/care to mint a new IRI [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:46:16 <davidwood> ack AZ

David Wood: ack AZ

16:46:16 <Zakim> AZ, you wanted to say that what's allowed in the 4th slot probably depends on what it identifies

Zakim IRC Bot: AZ, you wanted to say that what's allowed in the 4th slot probably depends on what it identifies

16:46:54 <JeremyCarroll> q+ to suggest a straw poll on either making decision now or postponing til after the rest of the design is made

Jeremy Carroll: q+ to suggest a straw poll on either making decision now or postponing til after the rest of the design is made

16:47:07 <gavinc> +q to propose a VERY concrete use case for Named Graphs

Gavin Carothers: +q to propose a VERY concrete use case for Named Graphs

16:47:32 <mischat> AZ: maybe we will know how to restrict the 4th slot if we know that it identifies. If it is just a label for a graph, it doesn't matter if it is a literal, IRI or a bnode.

Antoine Zimmermann: maybe we will know how to restrict the 4th slot if we know that it identifies. If it is just a label for a graph, it doesn't matter if it is a literal, IRI or a bnode. [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:47:46 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

16:47:48 <mischat> AZ: so the question to answer is, "what does the 4th slot identify" ?

Antoine Zimmermann: so the question to answer is, "what does the 4th slot identify" ? [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:47:56 <davidwood> ack swh

David Wood: ack swh

16:48:29 <mischat> swh: doesn't feel convinced that we haven't exhausted all of the use-cases

Steve Harris: doesn't feel convinced that we haven't exhausted all of the use-cases [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:48:42 <mischat> swh: has been working with quad-stores for 10 years or so

Steve Harris: has been working with quad-stores for 10 years or so [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:49:06 <mischat> swh: initially we didn't rule out bnodes in the 4th slot, but it has turned out that people don't actual use them

Steve Harris: initially we didn't rule out bnodes in the 4th slot, but it has turned out that people don't actual use them [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:49:47 <mischat> davidwood: feels that we are in a bit of a deadlock here.

David Wood: feels that we are in a bit of a deadlock here. [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:49:49 <davidwood> ack JeremyCarroll

David Wood: ack JeremyCarroll

16:49:49 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll, you wanted to suggest a straw poll on either making decision now or postponing til after the rest of the design is made

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll, you wanted to suggest a straw poll on either making decision now or postponing til after the rest of the design is made

16:49:53 <mischat> sandro: we need to revisit the design

Sandro Hawke: we need to revisit the design [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:50:13 <mischat> JeremyCarroll: 2nd'ing sandro's position re: revisiting the design

Jeremy Carroll: 2nd'ing sandro's position re: discussing the design [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:50:14 <gavinc> -q

Gavin Carothers: -q

16:50:19 <sandro> s/revisit/discuss
16:51:09 <ivan> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Jan/0021.html Sandro's three design aproaches

Ivan Herman: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Jan/0021.html Sandro's three design aproaches

16:51:23 <davidwood> ack cygri

David Wood: ack cygri

16:51:35 <swh> it's an existential variable!

Steve Harris: it's an existential variable!

16:51:43 <mischat> davidwood: doesn't think it seems minor given the ramifications for the semantics, for the various syntax, and the implementations

Richard Cyganiak: doesn't think it seems minor given the ramifications for the semantics, for the various syntax, and the implementations [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:52:02 <mischat> s/davidwood/cygri/
16:52:16 <swh> JeremyCarroll, cwm isn't the only system to have graph IDs that are bNodes, 3store did too, it just wasn't very popular

Steve Harris: JeremyCarroll, cwm isn't the only system to have graph IDs that are bNodes, 3store did too, it just wasn't very popular

16:52:21 <swh> …with users

Steve Harris: …with users

16:53:07 <mischat> cygri: re: AZ's point, we need to figure out what the interpretation of a dataset. Is it true/false? This will help cygri figure out the semantics of a dataset .

Richard Cyganiak: re: AZ's point, we need to figure out what the interpretation of a dataset. Is it true/false? This will help cygri figure out the semantics of a dataset . [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:53:13 <sandro> yes, absolutely

Sandro Hawke: yes, absolutely

16:53:18 <AZ> q+

Antoine Zimmermann: q+

16:53:31 <cygri> ack me

Richard Cyganiak: ack me

16:53:40 <davidwood> ack AZ

David Wood: ack AZ

16:53:42 <sandro> a dataset must have truth conditions, yes. being true or false.

Sandro Hawke: a dataset must have truth conditions, yes. being true or false.

16:54:12 <cygri> sandro, i disagree. is a dataset containing several versions of a graph true or false?

Richard Cyganiak: sandro, i disagree. is a dataset containing several versions of a graph true or false?

16:54:15 <mischat> AZ: the semantics of a dataset hasn't been decided upon yet, AZ proposed one, Pat didn't like it, but he don't have any progress on this front

Antoine Zimmermann: the semantics of a dataset hasn't been decided upon yet, AZ proposed one, Pat didn't like it, but we don't have any progress on this front [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:54:36 <cygri> thanks AZ

Richard Cyganiak: thanks AZ

16:54:48 <mischat> AZ: we don't even have the beginnings of what a dataset is yet, this work needs to be performed

Antoine Zimmermann: we don't even have the beginnings of what a dataset is yet, this work needs to be performed [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:55:48 <AZ> s/he don't have any progress/we don't have any progress/
16:56:35 <mischat> sandro: is talking about the use case re: graphs ^^

Sandro Hawke: is talking about the use case re: graphs ^^ [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:56:38 <gavinc> +q for concrete use case

Gavin Carothers: +q for concrete use case

16:57:22 <mischat> Use case 1 : Several systems want to use the data gathered by one RDF crawler.  They don't need simultaneous access to older versions of the data.

Mischa Tuffield: Use case 1 : Several systems want to use the data gathered by one RDF crawler. They don't need simultaneous access to older versions of the data.

16:57:31 <mischat> Use case 2: Several systems want to use the data gathered by one RDF crawler.  They need simultaneous access to older versions of the data.

Mischa Tuffield: Use case 2: Several systems want to use the data gathered by one RDF crawler. They need simultaneous access to older versions of the data.

16:57:58 <mischat> davidwood: can you find a real-world example for use-case 2

David Wood: can you find a real-world example for use-case 2 [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:58:01 <swh> we do provenance of that kind, and we don't model it that way

Steve Harris: we do provenance of that kind, and we don't model it that way

16:58:09 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Oct/0148.html

Andy Seaborne: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Oct/0148.html

16:58:21 <gavinc> Archiving Crawler Concrete!

Gavin Carothers: Archiving Crawler Concrete!

16:58:23 <mischat> sandro: people would like to know how and why data has changed

Sandro Hawke: people would like to know how and why data has changed [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:58:44 <mischat> sandro: would allow for provenance data to be modelled in RDF

Sandro Hawke: would allow for provenance data to be modelled in RDF [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:58:54 <mischat> Use-case 3 : A system wants to convey to another system in RDF that some person agrees with or disagrees with certain RDF triples.

Mischa Tuffield: Use-case 3 : A system wants to convey to another system in RDF that some person agrees with or disagrees with certain RDF triples.

16:59:20 <mischat> sandro: these 3 use-case could easily be modelled in trig and in nquads

Sandro Hawke: these 3 use-case could easily be modelled in trig and in nquads [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

16:59:51 <mischat> sandro: the syntaxes get used in different ways, and all of the ways can be used to model the use-cases

Sandro Hawke: the syntaxes get used in different ways, and all of the ways can be used to model the use-cases [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

17:00:32 <mischat> sandro: enumerated these are called the ways : Trig/REST, Trig/Equality, and Trig/bnode

Sandro Hawke: enumerated these are called the ways : Trig/REST, Trig/Equality, and Trig/bnode [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

17:00:33 <sandro> third approach:                eg:sandro eg:endorses { ... the triples I'm endorsing ... }

Sandro Hawke: third approach: eg:sandro eg:endorses { ... the triples I'm endorsing ... }

17:00:59 <gavinc> +q

Gavin Carothers: +q

17:02:13 <sandro> and third design on UC1 is:                    <http://example.org> rdf:graphState { ... triples recently fetched from there }

Sandro Hawke: and third design on UC1 is: <http://example.org> rdf:graphState { ... triples recently fetched from there }

17:03:05 <mischat> davidwood: most discussion was around the 3rd solution, and we haven't had much discussion on this, probably due to the timing of the email

David Wood: most discussion was around the 3rd solution, and we haven't had much discussion on this, probably due to the timing of the email [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

17:03:06 <davidwood> ack gavinc

David Wood: ack gavinc

17:03:07 <Zakim> gavinc, you wanted to discuss concrete use case and to

Zakim IRC Bot: gavinc, you wanted to discuss concrete use case and to

17:03:56 <mischat> gavinc: we are talking about archiving data on the web, as one of our use-cases, and we have an ISO standard for it at the moment

Gavin Carothers: we are talking about archiving data on the web, as one of our use-cases, and we have an ISO standard for it at the moment [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

17:04:38 <JeremyCarroll> please post link

Jeremy Carroll: please post link

17:04:40 <gavinc> http://www.digitalpreservation.gov/formats/fdd/fdd000236.shtml

Gavin Carothers: http://www.digitalpreservation.gov/formats/fdd/fdd000236.shtml

17:04:44 <cygri> i've worked with it

Richard Cyganiak: i've worked with it

17:04:55 <mischat> gavinc: in our use-case, without RDF, and without the SW cached in, when people have designed archiving systems for the web, they minted URIs

Gavin Carothers: in our use-case, without RDF, and without the SW cached in, when people have designed archiving systems for the web, they minted URIs [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

17:04:56 <cygri> most off-the-shelf crawlers support it

Richard Cyganiak: most off-the-shelf crawlers support it

17:05:12 <mischat> gavinc: a standard for archiving data from the web ^^

Gavin Carothers: a standard for archiving data from the web ^^ [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

17:05:29 <mischat> gavinc: so why are we talking about archiving the web, without minting new IRIs

Gavin Carothers: so why are we talking about archiving the web, without minting new IRIs [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

17:06:06 <JeremyCarroll> http://bibnum.bnf.fr/WARC/ ISO 28500.

Jeremy Carroll: http://bibnum.bnf.fr/WARC/ ISO 28500.

17:06:17 <mischat> sandro: please put your comments in context

Sandro Hawke: please put your comments in context [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

17:06:37 <mischat> gavinc: use-case 2 is not necessary for needing

Gavin Carothers: use-case 2 is not necessary for needing [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

17:06:56 <mischat>  s/needing/motivating bnodes in the 4th column/

Mischa Tuffield: s/needing/motivating bnodes in the 4th column/

17:07:38 <cygri> davidwood++

Richard Cyganiak: davidwood++

17:07:45 <mischat> davidwood: please motivation use-case 3

David Wood: please motivate use-case 3 [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

17:07:51 <mischat> s/motivation/motivate/
17:08:00 <cygri> q+

Richard Cyganiak: q+

17:08:13 <LeeF> Don't people build their own technology for something like this if they want to do it? How does the Tim Clark type group of people do it?

Lee Feigenbaum: Don't people build their own technology for something like this if they want to do it? How does the Tim Clark type group of people do it?

17:08:42 <davidwood> ack cygri

David Wood: ack cygri

17:08:42 <mischat> sandro: doesn't think that anyone is publishing data for use-case 3 because there are no mechanisms for people to make use of the practices described in use-case 3

Sandro Hawke: doesn't think that anyone is publishing data for use-case 3 because there are no mechanisms for people to make use of the practices described in use-case 3 [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

17:09:03 <davidwood> LeeF, Tim Clark type group?

David Wood: LeeF, Tim Clark type group?

17:09:22 <gavinc> Specific every WARC record must have an IRI http://archive-access.sourceforge.net/warc/warc_file_format-0.16.html#anchor4

Gavin Carothers: Specific every WARC record must have an IRI http://archive-access.sourceforge.net/warc/warc_file_format-0.16.html#anchor4

17:09:28 <LeeF> project formerly known as SWAN - think it became the scientific discourse sub-group of the SW HCLS IG

Lee Feigenbaum: project formerly known as SWAN - think it became the scientific discourse sub-group of the SW HCLS IG

17:09:33 <LeeF> but i don't know a lot about what it's been up to

Lee Feigenbaum: but i don't know a lot about what it's been up to

17:09:38 <LeeF> ericP?

Lee Feigenbaum: ericP?

17:09:54 <davidwood> WARC specifies a URI, not an IRI

David Wood: WARC specifies a URI, not an IRI

17:10:20 <mischat> cygri: doesn't believe that the use-case 3 should be top of our agenda

Richard Cyganiak: doesn't believe that the use-case 3 should be top of our agenda [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

17:11:23 <LeeF> I'm not that interested in this use case :-)

Lee Feigenbaum: I'm not that interested in this use case :-)

17:11:53 <swh> yes, lets ask the question about who's interested

Steve Harris: yes, lets ask the question about who's interested

17:12:12 <gavinc> since you can create a new graph that contains only the subgraph, and endorse that

Gavin Carothers: since you can create a new graph that contains only the subgraph, and endorse that

17:12:22 <mischat> JeremyCarroll: thinks that we can endorse a graph, but not a subgraph, and doesn't think this is a major issue

Jeremy Carroll: thinks that we can endorse a graph, but not a subgraph, and doesn't think this is a major issue [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

17:12:31 <AndyS> Also - converse is whether it is a requirement to be solved - middle ground of "not blocked"

Andy Seaborne: Also - converse is whether it is a requirement to be solved - middle ground of "not blocked"

17:12:44 <mischat> davidwood: can we have a straw-poll about who is interested in use-case 3 ?

David Wood: can we have a straw-poll about who is interested in use-case 3 ? [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

17:12:49 <LeeF> Talking about graph versus talking about subgraph?

Lee Feigenbaum: Talking about graph versus talking about subgraph?

17:12:52 <MacTed> sorry... link to this?

Ted Thibodeau: sorry... link to this?

17:12:52 <JeremyCarroll> i am interested in uc3 ...

Jeremy Carroll: i am interested in uc3 ...

17:12:55 <AndyS> +0.25

Andy Seaborne: +0.25

17:13:15 <davidwood> +0

David Wood: +0

17:13:33 <JeremyCarroll> q+ tp talk about owl test cases

Jeremy Carroll: q+ tp talk about owl test cases

17:13:35 <mischat> swh: finds it hard to know what use-case 3 is talking about

Steve Harris: finds it hard to know what use-case 3 is talking about [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

17:13:43 <JeremyCarroll> q+ to talk about owl test cases

Jeremy Carroll: q+ to talk about owl test cases

17:13:48 <davidwood> MacTed, UC3 in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Jan/0021.html

David Wood: MacTed, UC3 in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Jan/0021.html

17:13:53 <MacTed> danke

Ted Thibodeau: danke

17:14:47 <davidwood> ack JeremyCarroll

David Wood: ack JeremyCarroll

17:14:48 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll, you wanted to talk about owl test cases

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll, you wanted to talk about owl test cases

17:15:31 <swh> SELECT ?s ?p ?o WHERE { eg:sandro eg:endorses ?g } GRAPH ?g { ?s ?p ?o }}

Steve Harris: SELECT ?s ?p ?o WHERE { eg:sandro eg:endorses ?g } GRAPH ?g { ?s ?p ?o }}

17:15:40 <LeeF> syntax error!

Lee Feigenbaum: syntax error!

17:15:41 <mischat> JeremyCarroll: in the owl test case, there are manifest files which stated that one graph entails another graph. JeremyCarroll thinks this is a different concrete use case regarding what sandro is talking about

Jeremy Carroll: in the owl test case, there are manifest files which stated that one graph entails another graph. JeremyCarroll thinks this is a different concrete use case regarding what sandro is talking about [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

17:15:45 <swh> all the triples endorsed by eg:sandro

Steve Harris: all the triples endorsed by eg:sandro

17:15:54 <swh> sorry LeeF :)

Steve Harris: sorry LeeF :)

17:15:57 <mischat> sandro: thinks that use-case 4 is touching upon what JeremyCarroll mentioned above ^^

Sandro Hawke: thinks that use-case 4 is touching upon what JeremyCarroll mentioned above ^^ [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

17:16:12 <ericP> +1 to PML use case

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 to PML use case

17:16:13 <LeeF> at least you didn't write "SELECT ?s, ?p, ?o" :-D

Lee Feigenbaum: at least you didn't write "SELECT ?s, ?p, ?o" :-D

17:16:14 <MacTed> +1 interested in expressing endorsement (agreement with, has confidence in, etc.) of <arbitrary g-snap>

Ted Thibodeau: +1 interested in expressing endorsement (agreement with, has confidence in, etc.) of <arbitrary g-snap>

17:16:31 <Zakim> -JeremyCarroll

Zakim IRC Bot: -JeremyCarroll

17:16:40 <AZ> thx

Antoine Zimmermann: thx

17:16:41 <Zakim> -cygri

Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri

17:16:41 <AZ> buy

Antoine Zimmermann: buy

17:16:42 <Zakim> -Souri

Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri

17:16:43 <swh> LeeF, yeah, after years I finally stopped putting the , in there :)

Steve Harris: LeeF, yeah, after years I finally stopped putting the , in there :)

17:16:43 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

17:16:43 <Zakim> -yvesr

Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr

17:16:44 <Zakim> -gavinc

Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc

17:16:45 <Zakim> -sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -sandro

17:16:47 <Zakim> -davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood

17:16:48 <Zakim> -AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ

17:16:48 <Zakim> -swh

Zakim IRC Bot: -swh

17:16:50 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

17:16:52 <Zakim> -pchampin

Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin

17:16:53 <Zakim> -mischat

Zakim IRC Bot: -mischat

17:16:58 <Zakim> -EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP

17:17:00 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

17:17:02 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

17:17:21 <Zakim> -cgreer

Zakim IRC Bot: -cgreer

17:17:36 <AndyS> Did we make progress today?

Andy Seaborne: Did we make progress today?

17:17:42 <Zakim> -LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF

17:17:42 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended

17:17:43 <Zakim> Attendees were gavinc, +1.206.494.aaaa, cgreer, cygri, yvesr, AndyS, swh, Ivan, mischat, AZ, +1.408.996.aabb, Arnaud, sandro, davidwood, LeeF, JeremyCarroll, Souri, MacTed, EricP,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were gavinc, +1.206.494.aaaa, cgreer, cygri, yvesr, AndyS, swh, Ivan, mischat, AZ, +1.408.996.aabb, Arnaud, sandro, davidwood, LeeF, JeremyCarroll, Souri, MacTed, EricP,

17:17:45 <Zakim> ... pchampin

Zakim IRC Bot: ... pchampin

17:17:52 <LeeF> There's a disconnect somewhere here

Lee Feigenbaum: There's a disconnect somewhere here

17:17:59 <mischat> do I have to do things now

Mischa Tuffield: do I have to do things now

17:18:08 <mischat> make scribe logs or something

Mischa Tuffield: make scribe logs or something

17:18:13 <LeeF> Because I think that people are disagreeing over what needs to happen (if anything) in a design to support UC3

Lee Feigenbaum: Because I think that people are disagreeing over what needs to happen (if anything) in a design to support UC3

17:18:17 <mischat> been on holiday for a while :)

Mischa Tuffield: been on holiday for a while :)

17:18:26 <cygri> trackbot, make logs public

Richard Cyganiak: trackbot, make logs public

17:18:26 <trackbot> Sorry, cygri, I don't understand 'trackbot, make logs public'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, cygri, I don't understand 'trackbot, make logs public'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

17:18:33 <LeeF> RRSAgent, make logs public

Lee Feigenbaum: RRSAgent, make logs public

17:18:39 <cygri> ah.

Richard Cyganiak: ah.

17:18:44 <LeeF> mischat, think you want this http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/panel/

Lee Feigenbaum: mischat, think you want this http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/panel/



Formatted by CommonScribe


This revision (#1) generated 2012-01-17 20:54:45 UTC by 'gschreib', comments: None