RDF Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 09 November 2011

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.11.09
Seen
Andy Seaborne, Antoine Zimmermann, Charles Greer, Dan Brickley, David Wood, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Gavin Carothers, Ivan Herman, Jeremy Carroll, Mischa Tuffield, Peter Patel-Schneider, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Richard Cyganiak, Sandro Hawke, Scott Bauer, Souripriya Das, Steve Harris, Ted Thibodeau, Yves Raimond, Zhe Wu
Chair
David Wood
Scribe
Richard Cyganiak
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. accept the minutes of the 2 Nov telecon link
Topics
15:55:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/09-rdf-wg-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/09-rdf-wg-irc

15:55:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

15:55:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394

15:55:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes

15:55:10 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:55:10 <trackbot> Date: 09 November 2011
15:56:35 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

15:56:36 <Zakim> + +1.707.318.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.707.318.aaaa

15:58:50 <MacTed> I can't make today's call, but hoped I could throw a few words in quickly about graph (and other) identification...

Ted Thibodeau: I can't make today's call, but hoped I could throw a few words in quickly about graph (and other) identification...

15:58:51 <MacTed> URIs may well be defined as "global in scope" as Pat frequently states -- but people just don't use names or any other identifier consistently in any space, and I am convinced that RDF/WWW/GGG/BBQ will be no different.

Ted Thibodeau: URIs may well be defined as "global in scope" as Pat frequently states -- but people just don't use names or any other identifier consistently in any space, and I am convinced that RDF/WWW/GGG/BBQ will be no different.

15:58:51 <MacTed> Most people may agree that <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Tomato> denotes the red fruit (as the /page/ currently states) -- but plenty of authors will say that it may be a generic term for a woman of the 1920s (see <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tomato>).

Ted Thibodeau: Most people may agree that <http://dbpedia.org/resource/Tomato> denotes the red fruit (as the /page/ currently states) -- but plenty of authors will say that it may be a generic term for a woman of the 1920s (see <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tomato>).

15:58:51 <MacTed> Graphs (Gsnaps, Gboxes, Gtexts, etc.) are no different than anything else.  People have used and use do and will use URIs incorrectly.

Ted Thibodeau: Graphs (Gsnaps, Gboxes, Gtexts, etc.) are no different than anything else. People have used and use do and will use URIs incorrectly.

15:58:52 <Zakim> +??P4

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4

15:58:54 <MacTed> We have to accept and work with that, or nothing we do will be worth the doing except within the rarified world of logic.

Ted Thibodeau: We have to accept and work with that, or nothing we do will be worth the doing except within the rarified world of logic.

15:58:54 <Zakim> -??P4

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P4

15:58:54 <Zakim> +??P4

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4

15:58:57 <MacTed> "Local context" is a fact of life, and RDF having originally been defined *within an isolated context* should not prevent its evolving to recognize that fact.

Ted Thibodeau: "Local context" is a fact of life, and RDF having originally been defined *within an isolated context* should not prevent its evolving to recognize that fact.

15:58:59 <swh> Zakim, ??P4 is me

Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P4 is me

15:58:59 <Zakim> +swh; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +swh; got it

15:59:09 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

15:59:09 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

15:59:10 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

15:59:19 <Zakim> + +1.540.898.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.540.898.aabb

15:59:19 <MacTed> and with that bombshell.... :-)

Ted Thibodeau: and with that bombshell.... :-)

16:01:28 <Zakim> + +1.415.309.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.415.309.aadd

16:01:37 <JeremyCarroll> Zakim, aadd is me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, aadd is me

16:01:37 <Zakim> +JeremyCarroll; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +JeremyCarroll; got it

16:01:47 <JeremyCarroll> Zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, mute me

16:01:47 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll should now be muted

16:02:01 <Zakim> +??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15

16:02:07 <zwu2> zakim, code?

Zhe Wu: zakim, code?

16:02:09 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2

16:02:15 <Zakim> + +3539149aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +3539149aaee

16:02:22 <cygri_> zakim, aaee is me

Richard Cyganiak: zakim, aaee is me

16:02:22 <Zakim> +cygri_; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri_; got it

16:02:29 <mischat> zakim, ??15 is me

Mischa Tuffield: zakim, ??15 is me

16:02:29 <Zakim> sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '??15'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '??15'

16:02:41 <Zakim> + +1.650.265.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.650.265.aaff

16:02:45 <cgreer2> zakim, aaaa is me

Charles Greer: zakim, aaaa is me

16:02:45 <Zakim> +cgreer2; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cgreer2; got it

16:02:47 <mischat> zakim, ??P15 is me

Mischa Tuffield: zakim, ??P15 is me

16:02:47 <Zakim> +mischat; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +mischat; got it

16:02:56 <davidwood> Zakim, aaaa is cgreer2

David Wood: Zakim, aaaa is cgreer2

16:02:56 <Zakim> sorry, davidwood, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, davidwood, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'

16:02:57 <zwu2> zakim, aaff is me

Zhe Wu: zakim, aaff is me

16:02:58 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2; got it

16:03:22 <Zakim> +Tony

Zakim IRC Bot: +Tony

16:03:32 <Scott_Bauer> Zakim, Tony is me

Scott Bauer: Zakim, Tony is me

16:03:32 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider

Zakim IRC Bot: +Peter_Patel-Schneider

16:03:32 <Zakim> +Scott_Bauer; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Scott_Bauer; got it

16:04:02 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aagg

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aagg

16:04:10 <davidwood> Zakim, pick a scribe

David Wood: Zakim, pick a scribe

16:04:10 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose mischat

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose mischat

16:04:14 <Zakim> +??P24

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P24

16:04:16 <davidwood> Zakim, pick a scribe

David Wood: Zakim, pick a scribe

16:04:16 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose cygri_

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose cygri_

16:04:31 <cygri> scribe: cygri

(Scribe set to Richard Cyganiak)

16:04:58 <cygri> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.11.09
16:05:06 <cygri> chair: David Wood
16:05:11 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P24 is me

Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P24 is me

16:05:11 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it

16:05:13 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:05:24 <cygri> topic: Admin

1. Admin

16:05:25 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPCaller is me

16:05:25 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

16:05:34 <cygri> davidwood: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 2 Nov telecon

David Wood: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 2 Nov telecon

16:05:36 <mischat> zakim, who is making noise ?

Mischa Tuffield: zakim, who is making noise ?

16:05:39 <cygri>    http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-11-02

http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-11-02

16:05:46 <Zakim> mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: davidwood (91%)

Zakim IRC Bot: mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: davidwood (91%)

16:05:49 <cygri> RESOLUTION: accept the minutes of the 2 Nov telecon

RESOLVED: accept the minutes of the 2 Nov telecon

16:06:01 <cygri> topic: Action item review

2. Action item review

16:06:02 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open

16:06:13 <cygri> davidwood: lots of open actions, and none pending review

David Wood: lots of open actions, and none pending review

16:06:24 <cygri> ... do we have danbri today? apparently not

... do we have danbri today? apparently not

16:07:37 <cygri> ACTION-94?

ACTION-94?

16:07:37 <trackbot> ACTION-94 -- Richard Cyganiak to update http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs (but hopes others will help) -- due 2011-10-12 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-94 -- Richard Cyganiak to update http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs (but hopes others will help) -- due 2011-10-12 -- OPEN

16:07:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/94

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/94

16:08:15 <Zakim> +??P27

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P27

16:08:26 <cygri> cygri: no progress on my actions

Richard Cyganiak: no progress on my actions

16:08:43 <cygri> ... not sure about ACTION-94, i don't think i can do a great job on that, too many discussions have happend

... not sure about ACTION-94, i don't think i can do a great job on that, too many discussions have happend

16:09:00 <Zakim> + +1.707.861.aahh

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.707.861.aahh

16:09:21 <gavinc> ... what might I pick up?

Gavin Carothers: ... what might I pick up?

16:09:21 <Zakim> + +1.617.324.aaii

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.617.324.aaii

16:09:38 <davidwood> gavinc: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/94

Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/94 [ Scribe Assist by David Wood ]

16:09:53 <cygri> davidwood: cygri, can you mail the list to ask for new volunteer?

David Wood: cygri, can you mail the list to ask for new volunteer?

16:10:35 <cygri> ... goal is to update the page, comment on which proposals went nowhere, which technical issues are open etc ... best-effort

... goal is to update the page, comment on which proposals went nowhere, which technical issues are open etc ... best-effort

16:10:55 <cygri> gavinc: i can do that

Gavin Carothers: i can do that

16:11:32 <cygri> davidwood: i'll take care of some of the editorial actions

David Wood: i'll take care of some of the editorial actions

16:11:37 <trackbot> ACTION-94 -- Gavin Carothers to update http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs (but hopes others will help) -- due 2011-10-12 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-94 -- Gavin Carothers to update http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs (but hopes others will help) -- due 2011-10-12 -- OPEN

16:11:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/94

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/94

16:11:51 <trackbot> ACTION-106 -- Gavin Carothers to add link from Turtle datatypes section to recommended list in concepts -- due 2011-11-09 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-106 -- Gavin Carothers to add link from Turtle datatypes section to recommended list in concepts -- due 2011-11-09 -- OPEN

16:11:51 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/106

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/106

16:12:21 <trackbot> ACTION-105 -- Richard Cyganiak to contact pat and peter and make sure they are ok with putting list of XSD types into RDF Concepts -- due 2011-10-20 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-105 -- Richard Cyganiak to contact pat and peter and make sure they are ok with putting list of XSD types into RDF Concepts -- due 2011-10-20 -- OPEN

16:12:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/105

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/105

16:12:45 <cygri> gavinc: i might do ACTION-105 too

Gavin Carothers: i might do ACTION-105 too

16:13:05 <cygri> q+

q+

16:13:22 <mischat> the dateTime duration isn't in RDFie stuff

Mischa Tuffield: the dateTime duration isn't in RDFie stuff

16:13:23 <JeremyCarroll> q+

Jeremy Carroll: q+

16:13:58 <JeremyCarroll> zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, unmute me

16:13:58 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll should no longer be muted

16:14:04 <ericP> q+ to ask if we want to encourage canonical forms of XSD datatypes

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to ask if we want to encourage canonical forms of XSD datatypes

16:14:39 <cygri> jeremycarroll: did we do anything about xsd duration?

Jeremy Carroll: did we do anything about xsd duration?

16:14:50 <cygri> ... one group improved the duration types

... one group improved the duration types

16:15:00 <cygri> ... the type used to be unusable

... the type used to be unusable

16:15:18 <cygri> ... the problems with it were fixed somewhere. don't remember where

... the problems with it were fixed somewhere. don't remember where

16:15:33 <sandro> I see http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/ is currently in CR (for 4 months so far).

Sandro Hawke: I see http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/ is currently in CR (for 4 months so far).

16:15:42 <cygri> ACTION: JeremyCarroll to check status of duration datatypes

ACTION: JeremyCarroll to check status of duration datatypes

16:15:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-117 - Check status of duration datatypes [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2011-11-16].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-117 - Check status of duration datatypes [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2011-11-16].

16:15:54 <Zakim> +??P31

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P31

16:16:01 <JeremyCarroll> zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, mute me

16:16:01 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll should now be muted

16:16:03 <ericP> this is different from owl time which, iirc, atomized the components of the time?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: this is different from owl time which, iirc, atomized the components of the time?

16:16:06 <AndyS> Several technical XML ones - qname, NOTATION, token

Andy Seaborne: Several technical XML ones - qname, NOTATION, token

16:16:07 <cygri> pfps: i updated the action to include something on owl

Peter Patel-Schneider: i updated the action to include something on owl

16:16:08 <cygri> q-

q-

16:16:12 <cygri> ack JeremyCarroll

ack JeremyCarroll

16:16:34 <davidwood> ack ericP

David Wood: ack ericP

16:16:34 <cygri> topic: XSD canonicalization

3. XSD canonicalization

16:16:34 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to ask if we want to encourage canonical forms of XSD datatypes

Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to ask if we want to encourage canonical forms of XSD datatypes

16:16:40 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

16:16:43 <cygri> ericP: do we want to encourage canonical forms of xsd types

Eric Prud'hommeaux: do we want to encourage canonical forms of xsd types

16:16:47 <Zakim> + +33.4.77.42.aajj

Zakim IRC Bot: + +33.4.77.42.aajj

16:16:47 <JeremyCarroll> q+

Jeremy Carroll: q+

16:16:54 <cygri> davidwood: i like that

David Wood: i like that

16:17:06 <davidwood> ack JeremyCarroll

David Wood: ack JeremyCarroll

16:17:09 <AZ> Zakim, +33.4.77.42.aajj is me

Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, +33.4.77.42.aajj is me

16:17:09 <Zakim> +AZ; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it

16:17:34 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

16:17:39 <cygri> JeremyCarroll: the canonical form for decimal and int are different

Jeremy Carroll: the canonical form for decimal and int are different

16:18:01 <cygri> ... getting the canonical stuff right is hard

... getting the canonical stuff right is hard

16:18:31 <cygri> davidwood: there were lots of email messages on 1 vs 1.0

David Wood: there were lots of email messages on 1 vs 1.0

16:18:54 <cygri> ericP: and yet it seems to be desirable

Eric Prud'hommeaux: and yet it seems to be desirable

16:18:57 <gavinc> I think XSD 2 does a good job of listing the canonical form of all them now?

Gavin Carothers: I think XSD 2 does a good job of listing the canonical form of all them now?

16:19:09 <AndyS> This is fixed now.

Andy Seaborne: This is fixed now.

16:19:13 <cygri> davidwood: we could ignore this completely, or do only the simple ones, or do all

David Wood: we could ignore this completely, or do only the simple ones, or do all

16:19:14 <swh> yes

Steve Harris: yes

16:19:19 <AndyS> q?

Andy Seaborne: q?

16:20:05 <davidwood> ack AndyS

David Wood: ack AndyS

16:20:18 <cygri> JeremyCarroll: every solution will make someone unhappy. perhaps better to do nothing

Jeremy Carroll: every solution will make someone unhappy. perhaps better to do nothing

16:20:31 <mischat> wishes there was a better solution than http://reference.data.gov.uk/id/gregorian-interval/2010-07-19T00:00:00/P0Y0M0DT0H30M

Mischa Tuffield: wishes there was a better solution than http://reference.data.gov.uk/id/gregorian-interval/2010-07-19T00:00:00/P0Y0M0DT0H30M

16:20:35 <cygri> ACTION: JeremyCarroll to summarize issues relating to XSD canonicalization

ACTION: JeremyCarroll to summarize issues relating to XSD canonicalization

16:20:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-118 - Summarize issues relating to XSD canonicalization [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2011-11-16].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-118 - Summarize issues relating to XSD canonicalization [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2011-11-16].

16:20:52 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-1/

Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-1/

16:20:56 <cygri> AndyS: canonical form for integer changes in XSD 1.1

Andy Seaborne: canonical form for integer changes in XSD 1.1

16:21:04 <cygri> ... integer is now "1", no longer "1.0"

... integer is now "1", no longer "1.0"

16:21:15 <cygri> davidwood: this might make it tractable for us

David Wood: this might make it tractable for us

16:21:31 <cygri> AndyS: owl has normative dependency on XSD 1.1

Andy Seaborne: owl has normative dependency on XSD 1.1

16:21:45 <cygri> davidwood: so we almost have an obligation to handle this too

David Wood: so we almost have an obligation to handle this too

16:21:55 <cygri> AndyS: depends … is this may, should, must?

Andy Seaborne: depends … is this may, should, must?

16:22:05 <JeremyCarroll> zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, mute me

16:22:05 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll should now be muted

16:22:09 <cygri> davidwood: charter says we should align RDF with other recommendations and best practices

David Wood: charter says we should align RDF with other recommendations and best practices

16:22:16 <cygri> ... seems this is worthy of our time

... seems this is worthy of our time

16:22:26 <cygri> AndyS: it's good to put in some text to encourage it

Andy Seaborne: it's good to put in some text to encourage it

16:22:44 <cygri> davidwood: i'd be happy with a should

David Wood: i'd be happy with a should

16:23:43 <cygri> davidwood: anybody willing to take an action on summarizing the work that would need to be done?

David Wood: anybody willing to take an action on summarizing the work that would need to be done?

16:23:47 <JeremyCarroll> zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, unmute me

16:23:47 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll should no longer be muted

16:24:19 <cygri> ... i think that touches semantics too

... i think that touches semantics too

16:24:22 <cygri> pfps: why?

Peter Patel-Schneider: why?

16:24:35 <cygri> JeremyCarroll: as andy said, the value is what matters

Jeremy Carroll: as andy said, the value is what matters

16:24:46 <cygri> ... one school of thought: we don't care how you write down the value

... one school of thought: we don't care how you write down the value

16:25:13 <cygri> ... other school of thought: the value is what you write

... other school of thought: the value is what you write

16:25:21 <ericP> but RDF has little more logic can graph equivalence so the lexical form is critical

Eric Prud'hommeaux: but RDF has little more logic can graph equivalence so the lexical form is critical

16:25:28 <cygri> ... unlikely that there's consensus

... unlikely that there's consensus

16:25:34 <ericP> q+ to talk about SPARQL

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to talk about SPARQL

16:25:45 <mischat> fwiw, as it stands, RDF Semantic states that xsd:duration shouldn't be used : http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-mt/#DTYPEINTERP

Mischa Tuffield: fwiw, as it stands, RDF Semantic states that xsd:duration shouldn't be used : http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-mt/#DTYPEINTERP

16:25:48 <cygri> davidwood: what does SPARQL say about this?

David Wood: what does SPARQL say about this?

16:25:59 <Zakim> +??P34

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P34

16:25:59 <JeremyCarroll> zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, mute me

16:26:00 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll should now be muted

16:26:11 <cygri> ericP: there's a difference between RDF graph equivalence and xpath equivalence

Eric Prud'hommeaux: there's a difference between RDF graph equivalence and xpath equivalence

16:26:14 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P34 is me

Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P34 is me

16:26:14 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it

16:26:24 <AndyS> q+ to update Eric's answer for SPARQL 1.1 :-)

Andy Seaborne: q+ to update Eric's answer for SPARQL 1.1 :-)

16:26:30 <JeremyCarroll> machat, yes duration is broken ... iw was well known when xsd 1.0 came out

Jeremy Carroll: machat, yes duration is broken ... iw was well known when xsd 1.0 came out

16:26:38 <davidwood> ack ericP

David Wood: ack ericP

16:26:38 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to talk about SPARQL

Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to talk about SPARQL

16:26:40 <JeremyCarroll> they were out of time

Jeremy Carroll: they were out of time

16:26:42 <davidwood> ack AndyS

David Wood: ack AndyS

16:26:42 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to update Eric's answer for SPARQL 1.1 :-)

Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to update Eric's answer for SPARQL 1.1 :-)

16:26:53 <cygri> AndyS: SPARQL 1.1 has D-entailment which gives value-based processing

Andy Seaborne: SPARQL 1.1 has D-entailment which gives value-based processing

16:27:04 <cygri> ericP: but that's not regular sparql processing?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: but that's not regular sparql processing?

16:27:15 <cygri> AndyS: it's not in the lowest form of processing

Andy Seaborne: it's not in the lowest form of processing

16:27:29 <cygri> davidwood: you can get around all of that with filters?

David Wood: you can get around all of that with filters?

16:27:39 <cygri> AndyS: yes, not all engines do it

Andy Seaborne: yes, not all engines do it

16:28:36 <cygri> topic: Named Graphs

4. Named Graphs

16:28:46 <davidwood> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Nov/0025.html

David Wood: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Nov/0025.html

16:30:04 <cygri> pfps: i thought named graphs should show up in rdf concepts without changing semantics

Peter Patel-Schneider: i thought named graphs should show up in rdf concepts without changing semantics

16:30:13 <cygri> ... now we talk about changing semantics

... now we talk about changing semantics

16:30:23 <cygri> ... i disagree with a lot of that, and the rest i don't understand

... i disagree with a lot of that, and the rest i don't understand

16:30:39 <cygri> davidwood: do you disagree with andy's position on this?

David Wood: do you disagree with andy's position on this?

16:31:11 <gavinc> Zakim, mute me

Gavin Carothers: Zakim, mute me

16:31:11 <Zakim> sorry, gavinc, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, gavinc, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

16:31:19 <gavinc> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Gavin Carothers: Zakim, who is on the phone?

16:31:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see cgreer2, swh, Ivan, davidwood, +1.781.899.aacc, JeremyCarroll (muted), mischat, cygri_, zwu2, Scott_Bauer, Peter_Patel-Schneider, +1.603.897.aagg, yvesr, AndyS,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see cgreer2, swh, Ivan, davidwood, +1.781.899.aacc, JeremyCarroll (muted), mischat, cygri_, zwu2, Scott_Bauer, Peter_Patel-Schneider, +1.603.897.aagg, yvesr, AndyS,

16:31:22 <Zakim> ... danbri, +1.707.861.aahh, +1.617.324.aaii, ??P31, AZ, yvesr.a

Zakim IRC Bot: ... danbri, +1.707.861.aahh, +1.617.324.aaii, ??P31, AZ, yvesr.a

16:31:29 <gavinc> Zakim, aahh is me

Gavin Carothers: Zakim, aahh is me

16:31:29 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc; got it

16:31:33 <gavinc> Zakim, mute me

Gavin Carothers: Zakim, mute me

16:31:33 <Zakim> gavinc should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: gavinc should now be muted

16:31:52 <cygri> pfps: i'm worried about the idea that named graphs has to do with the current state of the semantic web

Peter Patel-Schneider: i'm worried about the idea that named graphs has to do with the current state of the semantic web

16:32:10 <danbri> I tried to write up the dilbert scenario http://danbri.org/words/2011/11/03/753 just so it's documented as a scenario (without assuming any particular approach)

Dan Brickley: I tried to write up the dilbert scenario http://danbri.org/words/2011/11/03/753 just so it's documented as a scenario (without assuming any particular approach)

16:32:12 <JeremyCarroll> q+ to stromgly disagree with peter :)

Jeremy Carroll: q+ to stromgly disagree with peter :)

16:32:13 <pfps> I worry very much about anything that puts the current state of the Web into RDF Semantics.

Peter Patel-Schneider: I worry very much about anything that puts the current state of the Web into RDF Semantics.

16:32:39 <JeremyCarroll> zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, unmute me

16:32:39 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll should no longer be muted

16:32:47 <davidwood> ack JeremyCarroll

David Wood: ack JeremyCarroll

16:32:47 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll, you wanted to stromgly disagree with peter :)

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll, you wanted to stromgly disagree with peter :)

16:33:08 <cygri> JeremyCarroll: W3C is a web consortium. the state of the web is fundamentally interesting

Jeremy Carroll: W3C is a web consortium. the state of the web is fundamentally interesting

16:33:52 <cygri> q+

q+

16:34:02 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

16:34:04 <JeremyCarroll> zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, mute me

16:34:04 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll should now be muted

16:34:18 <danbri> (I don't see 'current state of the Web' in pat's proposal; maybe I read too fast)

Dan Brickley: (I don't see 'current state of the Web' in pat's proposal; maybe I read too fast)

16:34:31 <cygri> q-

q-

16:34:31 <cygri> q+

q+

16:35:26 <JeremyCarroll> me thinks there is a transatlantic misunderstanding about domestic incidents

Jeremy Carroll: me thinks there is a transatlantic misunderstanding about domestic incidents

16:36:29 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

16:36:49 <cygri> AndyS: in that message i tried to capture the notion that there's a two-stop process in going from trig file to graph. name goes to something, something goes to graph

Andy Seaborne: in that message i tried to capture the notion that there's a two-stop process in going from trig file to graph. name goes to something, something goes to graph

16:37:02 <cygri> ... the named graphs paper says the relation is "denote"

... the named graphs paper says the relation is "denote"

16:37:23 <cygri> ... n3 says it's the owl:sameAs relation

... n3 says it's the owl:sameAs relation

16:37:37 <cygri> ... but other things are possible. "it's where i downloaded it from"

... but other things are possible. "it's where i downloaded it from"

16:37:57 <gavinc> Zakim, who is talking

Gavin Carothers: Zakim, who is talking

16:37:57 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is talking', gavinc

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is talking', gavinc

16:37:58 <cygri> ... that's what ppl often do because it's convenient, even though it's a time-varying relationship

... that's what ppl often do because it's convenient, even though it's a time-varying relationship

16:38:00 <gavinc> Zakim, who is talking?

Gavin Carothers: Zakim, who is talking?

16:38:12 <Zakim> gavinc, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (81%), danbri (17%)

Zakim IRC Bot: gavinc, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (81%), danbri (17%)

16:38:14 <cygri> ... Sandro talked about writing down good practice

... Sandro talked about writing down good practice

16:38:37 <cygri> ... the good practice would be to fix the second step to "denote"

... the good practice would be to fix the second step to "denote"

16:38:54 <danbri> yes - good to write down best practice; not clear what best practice actually *is*

Dan Brickley: yes - good to write down best practice; not clear what best practice actually *is*

16:39:04 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q-

16:39:07 <davidwood> ack pfps

David Wood: ack pfps

16:39:14 <davidwood> ack cygri

David Wood: ack cygri

16:39:19 <Zakim> +??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1

16:39:21 <swh> +1 to danbri

Steve Harris: +1 to danbri

16:40:13 <AndyS> Agree there is > 1 "good practice"

Andy Seaborne: Agree there is > 1 "good practice"

16:40:57 <AndyS> ... maybe, "patterns", or "ways to use the machinery"

Andy Seaborne: ... maybe, "patterns", or "ways to use the machinery"

16:42:03 <AZ> +1 cygri

Antoine Zimmermann: +1 cygri

16:42:13 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

16:42:27 <cygri> cygri: i think we can handle "state of the web" without going into semantics

Richard Cyganiak: i think we can handle "state of the web" without going into semantics

16:43:05 <cygri> ... awww, REST etc already handle "state of the web" well, and it might be less dangerous to leave the relationship of that to the RDF data model a bit fuzzy

... awww, REST etc already handle "state of the web" well, and it might be less dangerous to leave the relationship of that to the RDF data model a bit fuzzy

16:43:13 <sandro> zakim, who is making noise?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is making noise?

16:43:19 <Zakim> - +1.617.324.aaii

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.617.324.aaii

16:43:26 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: davidwood (16%), cygri_ (5%), Peter_Patel-Schneider (9%)

Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: davidwood (16%), cygri_ (5%), Peter_Patel-Schneider (9%)

16:43:52 <mischat> zakim, mute me

Mischa Tuffield: zakim, mute me

16:43:52 <Zakim> mischat should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: mischat should now be muted

16:44:06 <cygri> zakim, cygri_ is me

zakim, cygri_ is me

16:44:06 <Zakim> +cygri; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it

16:45:03 <Zakim> + +1.617.324.aakk

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.617.324.aakk

16:45:13 <ericP> Zakim, aakk is me

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, aakk is me

16:45:13 <Zakim> +ericP; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP; got it

16:45:40 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

16:45:43 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

16:45:48 <cygri> AndyS: i wasn't trying to propose a conceptual model, but find a more concrete way of talking about the machinery

Andy Seaborne: i wasn't trying to propose a conceptual model, but find a more concrete way of talking about the machinery

16:46:19 <cygri> ... i prefer the view that there's a loose association between uri and graph

... i prefer the view that there's a loose association between uri and graph

16:46:34 <JeremyCarroll> q+ to suggest using dilbert cube move use case

Jeremy Carroll: q+ to suggest using dilbert cube move use case

16:46:36 <cygri> ... with perhaps a way of making it more explicit

... with perhaps a way of making it more explicit

16:46:52 <sandro> q-

Sandro Hawke: q-

16:47:13 <cygri> davidwood: i asked kendall clark what a named graph is in stardog

David Wood: i asked kendall clark what a named graph is in stardog

16:47:32 <cygri> ... he said, a possibly empty partition of a database

... he said, a possibly empty partition of a database

16:47:43 <cygri> ... that's how many stores treat it

... that's how many stores treat it

16:47:50 <sandro> "A named graph is a possibly empty partition of an RDF database" -- that's the concept within the RDF database community.

Sandro Hawke: "A named graph is a possibly empty partition of an RDF database" -- that's the concept within the RDF database community.

16:48:00 <cygri> ... there's shared conceptual understanding in the rdf database community, but not outside of that community

... there's shared conceptual understanding in the rdf database community, but not outside of that community

16:48:37 <JeremyCarroll> zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, unmute me

16:48:37 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll should no longer be muted

16:48:43 <cygri> AndyS: in databases, the fact that it's a partition is a secondary issue

Andy Seaborne: in databases, the fact that it's a partition is a secondary issue

16:48:51 <cygri> ... the question is, why is it partitioned?

... the question is, why is it partitioned?

16:48:59 <cygri> JeremyCarroll: i'm unhappy with kendall's phrasing

Jeremy Carroll: i'm unhappy with kendall's phrasing

16:49:31 <cygri> ... when we talk about the web, a named graph is almost like a cached set of triples

... when we talk about the web, a named graph is almost like a cached set of triples

16:49:49 <cygri> ... [summarizes webarch]

... [summarizes webarch]

16:50:33 <cygri> AndyS: your model is a commonly used one ... how does it fit the notion in the named graph paper?

Andy Seaborne: your model is a commonly used one ... how does it fit the notion in the named graph paper?

16:51:50 <davidwood> JeremyCarroll, that sounds like Plato's Theory of Forms in that an RDF Graph is only ever abstract and its current home has no particular bearing.

David Wood: JeremyCarroll, that sounds like Plato's Theory of Forms in that an RDF Graph is only ever abstract and its current home has no particular bearing.

16:52:36 <cygri> JeremyCarroll: a set of named graphs is a cache of the web as defined by web architecture specs

Jeremy Carroll: a set of named graphs is a cache of the web as defined by web architecture specs

16:53:13 <gavinc> +1 RDF wayback machine

Gavin Carothers: +1 RDF wayback machine

16:53:23 <davidwood> I think JeremyCarroll said that a set of named graphs is a cache of *representations*

David Wood: I think JeremyCarroll said that a set of named graphs is a cache of *representations*

16:53:38 <davidwood> Is that so?

David Wood: Is that so?

16:53:43 <cygri> ... a graph name is a url. webarch already says what's the value of the corresponding graph. it's a solved problem.

... a graph name is a url. webarch already says what's the value of the corresponding graph. it's a solved problem.

16:54:29 <cygri> AndyS: you could write down in your data what purpose you're using the 4th slot for

Andy Seaborne: you could write down in your data what purpose you're using the 4th slot for

16:54:37 <cygri> q+

q+

16:54:43 <JeremyCarroll> ack

Jeremy Carroll: ack

16:54:47 <JeremyCarroll> q-

Jeremy Carroll: q-

16:54:54 <davidwood> ack cygri

David Wood: ack cygri

16:55:44 <JeremyCarroll> zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, mute me

16:55:44 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll should now be muted

16:55:51 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

16:56:14 <ericP> i don't agree that the RDB world does a better job with catalog, etc.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: i don't agree that the RDB world does a better job with catalog, etc.

16:56:27 <davidwood> ericP, agreed

David Wood: ericP, agreed

16:56:31 <JeremyCarroll> q+ to respond to richard overloading

Jeremy Carroll: q+ to respond to richard overloading

16:56:34 <ericP> i think that stuff is more about namespace scoping

Eric Prud'hommeaux: i think that stuff is more about namespace scoping

16:56:55 <cygri> cygri: the fourth element is used for many different things ... once you try using it for one thing, you preclude other uses

Richard Cyganiak: the fourth element is used for many different things ... once you try using it for one thing, you preclude other uses

16:57:15 <ericP> that i agree with completely

Eric Prud'hommeaux: that i agree with completely

16:57:23 <cygri> AndyS: RDB world is simpler because they don't try to cache the web

Andy Seaborne: RDB world is simpler because they don't try to cache the web

16:57:45 <JeremyCarroll> zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, unmute me

16:57:45 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll should no longer be muted

16:58:04 <davidwood> ack JeremyCarroll

David Wood: ack JeremyCarroll

16:58:04 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll, you wanted to respond to richard overloading

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll, you wanted to respond to richard overloading

16:58:07 <cygri> davidwood: in an RDB you have lots of out-of-band context. in RDF when you share stuff on the web you have to make that context explicit

David Wood: in an RDB you have lots of out-of-band context. in RDF when you share stuff on the web you have to make that context explicit

16:58:26 <cygri> JeremyCarroll: agree that the 4th slot is overloaded

Jeremy Carroll: agree that the 4th slot is overloaded

16:58:48 <cygri> ... but the answer is: if you want to have something better, model it better

... but the answer is: if you want to have something better, model it better

16:59:12 <cygri> ... 4th element is a simple generic mechanism

... 4th element is a simple generic mechanism

16:59:30 <cygri> ... and there's a toolkit for building something more complicated when you need it

... and there's a toolkit for building something more complicated when you need it

16:59:33 <cygri> q+

q+

16:59:44 <JeremyCarroll> zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, mute me

16:59:44 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll should now be muted

17:00:04 <davidwood> ack cygri

David Wood: ack cygri

17:00:20 <gavinc> ... why are we trying to do that?

Gavin Carothers: ... why are we trying to do that?

17:00:23 <ericP> cygri: we are trying this 4th element from the "cheap and cheerful" into something much more specific

Richard Cyganiak: we are trying this 4th element from the "cheap and cheerful" into something much more specific [ Scribe Assist by Eric Prud'hommeaux ]

17:00:57 <ericP> ... we're trying to say explicitly how that 4th col works and tie it to web semantics

Eric Prud'hommeaux: ... we're trying to say explicitly how that 4th col works and tie it to web semantics

17:01:07 <Zakim> -mischat

Zakim IRC Bot: -mischat

17:01:09 <ericP> ... i would be happy to keep it "cheep and cheerful"

Eric Prud'hommeaux: ... i would be happy to keep it "cheap and cheerful"

17:01:23 <yvesr> s/cheep/cheap
17:01:25 <cygri> davidwood: 4th element is an IRI. people can say what it means.

David Wood: 4th element is an IRI. people can say what it means.

17:01:52 <cygri> AndyS: i agree, but there's a caveat. there's also the relation between IRI and graph

Andy Seaborne: i agree, but there's a caveat. there's also the relation between IRI and graph

17:01:57 <Zakim> +??P46

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P46

17:02:02 <cygri> davidwood: yes

David Wood: yes

17:02:10 <mischat> zakim, ??P46 is me

Mischa Tuffield: zakim, ??P46 is me

17:02:14 <Zakim> +mischat; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +mischat; got it

17:02:18 <mischat> zakim, mute me

Mischa Tuffield: zakim, mute me

17:02:38 <Zakim> mischat should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: mischat should now be muted

17:02:39 <ericP> q+ to ask if this goes at all beyond what SPARQL had laid out

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to ask if this goes at all beyond what SPARQL had laid out

17:02:49 <davidwood> ack ericP

David Wood: ack ericP

17:02:52 <AndyS> q?

Andy Seaborne: q?

17:02:53 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

17:03:08 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to ask if this goes at all beyond what SPARQL had laid out

Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to ask if this goes at all beyond what SPARQL had laid out

17:03:15 <cygri> ericP: in SPARQL i have a name for a graph and some stuff inside

Eric Prud'hommeaux: in SPARQL i have a name for a graph and some stuff inside

17:03:16 <cygri> ... i can make assertions about that graph

... i can make assertions about that graph

17:03:20 <yvesr> davidwood, you can't explicitly represent the relation between the IRI and the graph now (having an IRI for the graph is not enough, i guess)

Yves Raimond: davidwood, you can't explicitly represent the relation between the IRI and the graph now (having an IRI for the graph is not enough, i guess)

17:03:45 <cygri> ... that's all there is in sparql at the moment

... that's all there is in sparql at the moment

17:03:56 <davidwood> yvesr, right, we still would need to create a relation.

David Wood: yvesr, right, we still would need to create a relation.

17:04:00 <Zakim> -gavinc

Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc

17:04:16 <davidwood> …but we avoid having a single meaning for the 4th slot

David Wood: …but we avoid having a single meaning for the 4th slot

17:04:26 <cygri> AndyS: in SPARQL it's always a loose relation except in FROM NAMED where it's the web architeture relation

Andy Seaborne: in SPARQL it's always a loose relation except in FROM NAMED where it's the web architeture relation

17:04:42 <yvesr> davidwood, yes

Yves Raimond: davidwood, yes

17:04:43 <cygri> ericP: allow bnodes in the 4th place?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: allow bnodes in the 4th place?

17:04:57 <cygri> ... tricky because of scope

... tricky because of scope

17:04:58 <JeremyCarroll> no bnodes in 4th place!!

Jeremy Carroll: no bnodes in 4th place!!

17:05:04 <gavinc> No.

Gavin Carothers: No.

17:05:07 <davidwood> +1 JeremyCarroll

David Wood: +1 JeremyCarroll

17:05:10 <Souri> No

Souripriya Das: No

17:05:13 <pchampin> but nevertheless, SPARQL suggests that someone can write <graph-iri> dc:creator "pchampin" .

Pierre-Antoine Champin: but nevertheless, SPARQL suggests that someone can write <graph-iri> dc:creator "pchampin" .

17:05:13 <AZ> literals in the 4th place?

Antoine Zimmermann: literals in the 4th place?

17:05:19 <zwu2> +1 Jeremy

Zhe Wu: +1 Jeremy

17:05:36 <pchampin> ... which seems to imply that <graph-iri> is *naming* the graph

Pierre-Antoine Champin: ... which seems to imply that <graph-iri> is *naming* the graph

17:06:08 <cygri> AndyS: the case needs to be made for anything besides IRI in that slot

Andy Seaborne: the case needs to be made for anything besides IRI in that slot

17:06:08 <Souri> no bNodes in 4th place please

Souripriya Das: no bNodes in 4th place please

17:06:10 <ericP> i'm happy with the "4th col is an IRI" constraint

Eric Prud'hommeaux: i'm happy with the "4th col is an IRI" constraint

17:06:20 <ivan> +1 to Sandro

Ivan Herman: +1 to Sandro

17:07:30 <cygri> sandro: i want to see some examples of what i can do with the datasets proposal

Sandro Hawke: i want to see some examples of what i can do with the datasets proposal

17:07:57 <cygri> AndyS: there were two examples already

Andy Seaborne: there were two examples already

17:08:19 <gavinc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/trig/index.html#sec-graph-statements ;)

Gavin Carothers: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/trig/index.html#sec-graph-statements ;)

17:08:58 <cygri> sandro: i'm looking for a trig document and a clear notion of what is entailed by it

Sandro Hawke: i'm looking for a trig document and a clear notion of what is entailed by it

17:10:23 <cygri> ACTION: AndyS to create a short example for a TriG document and a clear notion of what is entailed by it

ACTION: AndyS to create a short example for a TriG document and a clear notion of what is entailed by it

17:10:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-119 - Create a short example for a TriG document and a clear notion of what is entailed by it [on Andy Seaborne - due 2011-11-16].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-119 - Create a short example for a TriG document and a clear notion of what is entailed by it [on Andy Seaborne - due 2011-11-16].

17:10:46 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

17:10:48 <JeremyCarroll> zakim, unmute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, unmute me

17:10:48 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll should no longer be muted

17:10:59 <zwu2> byte, have to go to another meeting.

Zhe Wu: byte, have to go to another meeting.

17:11:01 <gavinc> Sorry, wife needed the phone line for health insurance :\

Gavin Carothers: Sorry, wife needed the phone line for health insurance :\

17:11:09 <Zakim> -zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2

17:11:12 <Zakim> +[OpenLink]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[OpenLink]

17:11:31 <MacTed> Zakim, [OpenLink] is OpenLink_Software

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, [OpenLink] is OpenLink_Software

17:11:31 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software; got it

17:11:34 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

17:11:34 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

17:11:37 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

17:11:37 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

17:11:39 <cygri> JeremyCarroll: once you have an example i'll comment on it regarding correspondance with web architecture

Jeremy Carroll: once you have an example i'll comment on it regarding correspondance with web architecture

17:11:42 <JeremyCarroll> zakim, mute me

Jeremy Carroll: zakim, mute me

17:11:42 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: JeremyCarroll should now be muted

17:11:44 <cygri> topic: URI aliases for RDF terms

5. URI aliases for RDF terms

17:11:50 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

17:11:52 <davidwood> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Nov/0006.html

David Wood: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Nov/0006.html

17:11:54 <cygri> davidwood: should we just make an issue for this?

David Wood: should we just make an issue for this?

17:12:02 <davidwood> ack ivan

David Wood: ack ivan

17:12:21 <cygri> ivan: reaction on the list convinced me that this would be difficult

Ivan Herman: reaction on the list convinced me that this would be difficult

17:12:43 <cygri> q+

q+

17:12:55 <davidwood> ack cygri

David Wood: ack cygri

17:13:00 <cygri> cygri: RDF/RDFS/OWL URIs are too long and unwieldy for use in new tech like microdata. if that ship has really already sailed, then it might be sailing into a dead end

Richard Cyganiak: RDF/RDFS/OWL URIs are too long and unwieldy for use in new tech like microdata. if that ship has really already sailed, then it might be sailing into a dead end

17:13:43 <Zakim> -Scott_Bauer

Zakim IRC Bot: -Scott_Bauer



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This revision (#1) generated 2011-11-09 17:28:23 UTC by 'rcygania2', comments: 'Published after minimal cleanup'