Provenance Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 11 October 2012

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.10.10
Seen
Craig Trim, Curt Tilmes, Hook Hua, Ivan Herman, James Cheney, Jun Zhao, Luc Moreau, Paul Groth, Satya Sahoo, Simon Miles, Stephan Zednik, Ted Thibodeau, Trung Huynh
Chair
Luc Moreau
Scribe
Satya Sahoo
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. oct 04, 2012 minutes link
  2. ISSUE-530, ISSUE-520, ISSUE-522, ISSUE-509, ISSUE-526, ISSUE-502 are confirmed to be resolved link
  3. the split normative/informative in the current editor's draft of prov-dm link
Topics
  1. admin

    Minutes of last week's teleconference were approved.

  2. CR Exit Criteria

    Paul revised the CR Exit Criteria following last week's call (http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvCRExitCriteria). They were discussed and minor changes suggested. The group is invited to review them and provide feedback. Dong also drafted the process for prov-constraints implementors (http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/testcases/constraints/process.html). Feedback is also sought.

  3. prov-dm issues

    Answers to ISSUE-530, ISSUE-520, ISSUE-522, ISSUE-509, ISSUE-526, ISSUE-502 were circulated during the week and these issues were confirmed to be resolved. We then reviewed and approved the proposed split informative/normative for the PROV-DM document. It followed the guidance given to editors two weeks ago at the teleconference. It was confirmed that we want to keep the table in Appendix as normative, since it states which prov-dm terms maps to which prov-o/prov-n term. It was recognized that this table does not (and need not to) provide all the details required for the mapping. It was suggested that a similar table will also be required for prov-xml. Finally, it was discussed how the UML diagram in Figure 8 has been revised, no longer making explicit inheritance from Influence, so as to address an external comment (ISSUE-519 and ISSUE-523). The group is invited to review the changes during the coming week.

  4. prov-xml

    Stephan briefed the group on progress on the prov-xml schema and associated document.

14:52:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/11-prov-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/11-prov-irc

14:52:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:52:33 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV

Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV

14:52:33 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes

14:52:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be

14:52:34 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:52:34 <trackbot> Date: 11 October 2012
14:52:34 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

14:52:47 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.10.10
14:53:47 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public

14:53:55 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
14:54:10 <Luc> Topic: admin

1. admin

Summary: Minutes of last week's teleconference were approved.

<luc>Summary: Minutes of last week's teleconference were approved.
14:57:24 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

14:57:32 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

14:58:05 <pgroth> Zakim, who is on the call?

Paul Groth: Zakim, who is on the call?

14:58:21 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV

Paul Groth: Zakim, this will be PROV

14:58:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see [IPcaller]

14:58:35 <Zakim> ok, pgroth, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, pgroth, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started

14:58:44 <pgroth> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Paul Groth: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

14:58:44 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it

14:59:38 <Zakim> +Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc

14:59:52 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes

Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt_Tilmes

15:00:31 <ivan> zakim, code?

Ivan Herman: zakim, code?

15:00:31 <Zakim> the conference code is 7768 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7768 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan

15:00:36 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

15:00:42 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

15:00:42 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

15:00:42 <Luc> hi I am looking for a scribe, thanks

Luc Moreau: hi I am looking for a scribe, thanks

15:00:43 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:00:43 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

15:00:45 <Luc> hi I am looking for a scribe, thanks

Luc Moreau: hi I am looking for a scribe, thanks

15:01:00 <Luc> dong?

Luc Moreau: dong?

15:01:02 <Zakim> +ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +ivan

15:01:18 <Luc> @dong, can you scribe?

Luc Moreau: @dong, can you scribe?

15:01:38 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: +Satya_Sahoo

15:01:50 <Luc> zakim, who is on the phone?

Luc Moreau: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:01:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, Curt_Tilmes, MacTed (muted), ivan, Satya_Sahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, Curt_Tilmes, MacTed (muted), ivan, Satya_Sahoo

15:02:03 <Zakim> + +1.818.731.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.818.731.aaaa

15:02:20 <Luc> scribe: satya

(Scribe set to Satya Sahoo)

15:02:41 <Zakim> +jcheney

Zakim IRC Bot: +jcheney

15:02:56 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

15:03:31 <Zakim> +Dong

Zakim IRC Bot: +Dong

15:03:35 <Luc> proposed: to approve oct 04, 2012 minutes

PROPOSED: to approve oct 04, 2012 minutes

15:03:46 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:03:49 <smiles> 0

Simon Miles: 0

15:03:51 <Curt> +1

Curt Tilmes: +1

15:03:53 <hook> +1

Hook Hua: +1

15:03:58 <Dong> @luc: sorry, just dialed in

Trung Huynh: @luc: sorry, just dialed in

15:04:04 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1

15:04:05 <Dong> +1

Trung Huynh: +1

15:04:20 <Luc> accepted:  oct 04, 2012 minutes

RESOLVED: oct 04, 2012 minutes

15:04:38 <satya> Luc: Open Actions

Luc Moreau: Open Actions

15:04:46 <Zakim> +??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1

15:04:46 <ivan> issue-446?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-446?

15:04:46 <trackbot> ISSUE-446 -- prov:involvee not documented in PROV-O -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-446 -- prov:involvee not documented in PROV-O -- open

15:04:46 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/446

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/446

15:04:54 <satya> Luc: Action on Daniel regarding Issue 446

Luc Moreau: Action on Daniel regarding ISSUE-446

15:05:02 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a]

15:05:06 <satya> Luc: Daniel not on call

Luc Moreau: Daniel not on call

15:05:15 <satya> Luc: Action on Tim still open

Luc Moreau: Action on Tim still open

15:05:31 <Luc> @stian?

Luc Moreau: @stian?

15:05:41 <satya> Luc: Action on Stian still open

Luc Moreau: Action on Stian still open

15:05:57 <satya> Luc: Action on Paul to revise Exit criteria - completed

Luc Moreau: Action on Paul to revise Exit criteria - completed

15:06:03 <Luc> topic: CR Exit Criteria

2. CR Exit Criteria

Summary: Paul revised the CR Exit Criteria following last week's call (http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvCRExitCriteria). They were discussed and minor changes suggested. The group is invited to review them and provide feedback. Dong also drafted the process for prov-constraints implementors (http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/testcases/constraints/process.html). Feedback is also sought.

15:06:09 <satya> Luc: Next topic: PROV Exit Criteria

Luc Moreau: Next topic: PROV Exit Criteria

<luc> Summary: Paul revised the CR Exit Criteria following last week's call (http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvCRExitCriteria). They were discussed and minor changes suggested. The group is invited to review them and provide feedback. Dong also drafted the process for prov-constraints implementors (http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/testcases/constraints/process.html). Feedback is also sought.
15:06:20 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvCRExitCriteria

Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvCRExitCriteria

15:06:47 <satya> Paul: New set of exit criteria proposed based on comments during last call

Paul Groth: New set of exit criteria proposed based on comments during last call

15:07:05 <satya> Paul: Exit criteria for PROV-O and PROV-N are same

Paul Groth: Exit criteria for PROV-O and PROV-N are same

15:07:23 <Luc> 'provenance feature' ? is same as 'feature'?

Luc Moreau: 'provenance feature' ? is same as 'feature'?

15:07:26 <satya> Paul: Reviewing the exit criteria points

Paul Groth: Reviewing the exit criteria points

15:07:34 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:08:36 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:08:41 <satya> Paul: Notes at the end of the page describes the type of implementations

Paul Groth: Notes at the end of the page describes the type of implementations

15:09:38 <satya> Paul: Features for models in the implementation are concepts in PROV-O and constraints in PROV-Constraints

Paul Groth: Features for models in the implementation are concepts in PROV-O and constraints in PROV-Constraints

15:10:03 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:10:08 <satya> Paul: Evidence to illustrate that the conceptual model was useful for the implementation

Paul Groth: Evidence to illustrate that the conceptual model was useful for the implementation

15:10:12 <Luc> ack iv

Luc Moreau: ack iv

15:10:44 <satya> Ivan: Clarify that two implementations should be independent (not from same department etc.)

Ivan Herman: Clarify that two implementations should be independent (not from same department etc.)

15:11:19 <satya> Luc: Developing two toolboxes - would they qualify to be independent?

Luc Moreau: Developing two toolboxes - would they qualify to be independent?

15:11:31 <pgroth> +Q

Paul Groth: +Q

15:11:32 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:11:39 <satya> Ivan: Depends on the relation between the toolbox and the implementation

Ivan Herman: Depends on the relation between the toolbox and the implementation

15:12:37 <satya> Paul: Downloaded the toolbox from Luc at VU Amsterdam - modified by student, does this qualify?

Paul Groth: Downloaded the toolbox from Luc at VU Amsterdam - modified by student, does this qualify?

15:12:58 <Luc> it is your student who decide which feature to use, and not the toolbox!

Luc Moreau: it is your student who decide which feature to use, and not the toolbox!

15:13:30 <satya> Ivan: Depends on the type of modifications

Ivan Herman: Depends on the type of modifications

15:13:58 <Zakim> +??P27

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P27

15:14:02 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:14:06 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

15:14:12 <satya> Ivan: The W3C directors need to be convinced regarding independence of the implementations

Ivan Herman: The W3C directors need to be convinced regarding independence of the implementations

15:14:37 <hook> +q

Hook Hua: +q

15:14:49 <satya> Luc: Confusing to use different terms - use "feature" consistently

Luc Moreau: Confusing to use different terms - use "feature" consistently

15:14:52 <satya> Paul: Agree

Paul Groth: Agree

15:15:05 <zednik> q+

Stephan Zednik: q+

15:15:17 <satya> Luc: Relevant to distinguish between types of implementations

Luc Moreau: Relevant to distinguish between types of implementations

15:15:30 <satya> Paul: Already cover that in the questionaire

Paul Groth: Already cover that in the questionaire

15:15:54 <Luc> ack hook

Luc Moreau: ack hook

15:15:55 <hook> http://semanticweb.org/wiki/RDFReactor

Hook Hua: http://semanticweb.org/wiki/RDFReactor

15:16:19 <pgroth> that's definitely an implemenatiaon

Paul Groth: that's definitely an implemenatiaon

15:16:52 <satya> Hook: Leveraged a tool to auto-generate provenance trace(?) - clarify if it is an implementation or data mining app?

Hook Hua: Leveraged a tool to auto-generate provenance trace(?) - clarify if it is an implementation or data mining app?

15:17:07 <satya> Paul: It should qualify as an implementation

Paul Groth: It should qualify as an implementation

15:17:29 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:17:46 <Luc> is there a requirement to make the code available?

Luc Moreau: is there a requirement to make the code available?

15:17:55 <Zakim> + +1.713.754.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.713.754.aabb

15:18:00 <pgroth> no

Paul Groth: no

15:18:03 <Luc> ok

Luc Moreau: ok

15:18:14 <pgroth> the only thing is that you right a report

Paul Groth: the only thing is that you write a report

15:18:22 <pgroth> s/right/write/
15:18:30 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:18:37 <satya> Hook: The implementation ensures that the traces are PROV-O compliant

Hook Hua: The implementation ensures that the traces are PROV-O compliant

15:19:26 <pgroth> +q

Paul Groth: +q

15:19:27 <satya> StephanZ: Add a point to questionaire to describe the tool used in the implementation

Stephan Zednik: Add a point to questionaire to describe the tool used in the implementation

15:19:32 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:19:33 <satya> Luc: Agree

Luc Moreau: Agree

15:19:35 <Luc> ack ze

Luc Moreau: ack ze

15:20:11 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

15:20:40 <satya> Paul: Do we have question in questionaire to explicitly describe use of PROV?

Paul Groth: Do we have question in questionaire to explicitly describe use of PROV?

15:21:18 <satya> Luc: What is evidence of the conceptual model being helpful

Luc Moreau: What is evidence of the conceptual model being helpful

15:21:35 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:21:59 <satya> Paul: Self-reported description in the implementation documentation

Paul Groth: Self-reported description in the implementation documentation

15:22:03 <satya> Luc: What is the next step?

Luc Moreau: What is the next step?

15:22:52 <satya> Paul: Up for discussion till next telcon

Paul Groth: Up for discussion till next telcon

15:23:24 <satya> Paul: Dong will have example documentation for submission process of implementations

Paul Groth: Dong will have example documentation for submission process of implementations

15:23:44 <satya> Luc: What documentation needs to be created?

Luc Moreau: What documentation needs to be created?

15:24:02 <satya> Ivan: Current documentation/wiki by Paul is fine

Ivan Herman: Current documentation/wiki by Paul is fine

15:24:06 <hook> regarding decoupling models being helpful: the ISO community also takes this approach of decoupling models from encodings. has been quite useful, particularly for ISO 19115:2003 Geographic information -- Metadata  http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=26020

Hook Hua: regarding decoupling models being helpful: the ISO community also takes this approach of decoupling models from encodings. has been quite useful, particularly for ISO 19115:2003 Geographic information -- Metadata http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=26020

15:24:27 <satya> Luc: Cataloging of test cases

Luc Moreau: Cataloging of test cases

15:24:33 <Dong> The draft test process here: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/testcases/constraints/process.html

Trung Huynh: The draft test process here: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/testcases/constraints/process.html

15:25:29 <satya> Paul: Dong has set of test cases available on web site - implementation will output text file, which will be evaluated (pass/fail)

Paul Groth: Dong has set of test cases available on web site - implementation will output text file, which will be evaluated (pass/fail)

15:25:38 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:25:40 <pgroth> thanks Dong!

Paul Groth: thanks Dong!

15:26:09 <satya> Luc: Is this approach used only for constraints?

Luc Moreau: Is this approach used only for constraints?

15:26:30 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:26:36 <satya> Paul: Yes, for other features we will use Stephan's questionnaire

Paul Groth: Yes, for other features we will use Stephan's questionnaire

15:27:02 <pgroth> other than me and you

Paul Groth: other than me and you

15:27:03 <pgroth> ?

Paul Groth: ?

15:27:03 <satya> Luc: Feedback from implementors of constraints?

Luc Moreau: Feedback from implementors of constraints?

15:27:12 <jcheney> not sure i'll have time, paolo is interested

James Cheney: not sure i'll have time, paolo is interested

15:27:34 <jcheney> reza had mentioned at f2f3 that oracle is interested; his recent email seems to back this up

James Cheney: reza had mentioned at f2f3 that oracle is interested; his recent email seems to back this up

15:27:43 <jun> q+

Jun Zhao: q+

15:27:45 <satya> Luc: Concerned that WG may not have enough implementations

Luc Moreau: Concerned that WG may not have enough implementations

15:27:46 <pgroth> +q

Paul Groth: +q

15:28:06 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:28:41 <Luc> ack jun

Luc Moreau: ack jun

15:28:56 <satya> Jun: Has implemented some of the constraints - uses SPARQL queries to create collection of test cases for identifying violations of constraints

Jun Zhao: Has implemented some of the constraints - uses SPARQL queries to create collection of test cases for identifying violations of constraints

15:29:07 <pgroth> yes

Paul Groth: yes

15:29:15 <CraigTrim> zakim, who is on the phone?

Craig Trim: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:29:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, Curt_Tilmes, MacTed (muted), ivan, Satya_Sahoo, +1.818.731.aaaa, jcheney, [IPcaller], Dong, ??P1, [IPcaller.a], ??P27, +1.713.754.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pgroth, Luc, Curt_Tilmes, MacTed (muted), ivan, Satya_Sahoo, +1.818.731.aaaa, jcheney, [IPcaller], Dong, ??P1, [IPcaller.a], ??P27, +1.713.754.aabb

15:29:31 <pgroth> good point

Paul Groth: good point

15:29:38 <jun> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/testcases/constraints/process.html

Jun Zhao: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/testcases/constraints/process.html

15:29:48 <satya> Jun: Not sure about some of the points in Table 2 of constraint testing process

Jun Zhao: Not sure about some of the points in Table 2 of constraint testing process

15:30:08 <CraigTrim> CraigTrim: zakim, I am aabb

Craig Trim: zakim, I am aabb [ Scribe Assist by Craig Trim ]

15:30:15 <CraigTrim> zakim, I am aabb

Craig Trim: zakim, I am aabb

15:30:15 <Zakim> +CraigTrim; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +CraigTrim; got it

15:30:19 <Luc> shouldn't identifiers be uris?

Luc Moreau: shouldn't identifiers be uris?

15:30:31 <satya> Paul: Agree, some of the points need to be reviewed

Paul Groth: Agree, some of the points need to be reviewed

15:30:45 <Dong> Thanks Paul

Trung Huynh: Thanks Paul

15:30:57 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:31:14 <Dong> The 2nd column is meant to list the constraints each test case cover

Trung Huynh: The 2nd column is meant to list the constraints each test case cover

15:31:33 <satya> Luc: Need to clarify the naming issue (?)

Luc Moreau: Need to clarify the naming issue (?)

15:31:59 <pgroth> @jun excited that you are doing the constraints

Paul Groth: @jun excited that you are doing the constraints

15:32:00 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:32:05 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

15:32:36 <satya> Paul: Do not intend to implement all the constraints

Paul Groth: Do not intend to implement all the constraints

15:32:56 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:32:57 <Dong> BTW, building a complete test suite takes significant effort, I'd like to invite anyone who has constructed test cases for constraints to share them with the group

Trung Huynh: BTW, building a complete test suite takes significant effort, I'd like to invite anyone who has constructed test cases for constraints to share them with the group

15:32:59 <satya> Paul: Hence, need more implementors

Paul Groth: Hence, need more implementors

15:33:25 <satya> Jun: Implementation is in context of the Workflow4Ever project

Jun Zhao: Implementation is in context of the Workflow4Ever project

15:33:47 <pgroth> ack

Paul Groth: ack

15:33:49 <pgroth> sorry

Paul Groth: sorry

15:34:01 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:34:05 <satya> Luc: Review the document and provide feedback

Luc Moreau: Review the document and provide feedback

15:34:10 <Luc> topic: prov-dm issues

3. prov-dm issues

Summary: Answers to ISSUE-530, ISSUE-520, ISSUE-522, ISSUE-509, ISSUE-526, ISSUE-502 were circulated during the week and these issues were confirmed to be resolved. We then reviewed and approved the proposed split informative/normative for the PROV-DM document. It followed the guidance given to editors two weeks ago at the teleconference. It was confirmed that we want to keep the table in Appendix as normative, since it states which prov-dm terms maps to which prov-o/prov-n term. It was recognized that this table does not (and need not to) provide all the details required for the mapping. It was suggested that a similar table will also be required for prov-xml. Finally, it was discussed how the UML diagram in Figure 8 has been revised, no longer making explicit inheritance from Influence, so as to address an external comment (ISSUE-519 and ISSUE-523). The group is invited to review the changes during the coming week.

<luc>Summary: Answers to ISSUE-530, ISSUE-520, ISSUE-522, ISSUE-509, ISSUE-526, ISSUE-502 were circulated during the week and these issues were confirmed to be resolved. We then reviewed and approved the proposed split informative/normative for the PROV-DM document. It followed the guidance given to editors two weeks ago at the teleconference. It was confirmed that we want to keep the table in Appendix as normative, since it states which prov-dm terms maps to which prov-o/prov-n term. It was recognized that this table does not (and need not to) provide all the details required for the mapping. It was suggested that a similar table will also be required for prov-xml. Finally, it was discussed how the UML diagram in Figure 8 has been revised, no longer making explicit inheritance from Influence, so as to address an external comment (ISSUE-519 and ISSUE-523). The group is invited to review the changes during the coming week.
15:34:18 <satya> Luc: Next item: PROV-DM issues

Luc Moreau: Next item: PROV-DM issues

15:34:47 <Luc> ISSUE-530, ISSUE-520,  ISSUE-522, ISSUE-509, ISSUE-526, ISSUE-502

Luc Moreau: ISSUE-530, ISSUE-520, ISSUE-522, ISSUE-509, ISSUE-526, ISSUE-502

15:34:56 <satya> Luc: all feedback have been incorporated, confirm that the group is happy with the following issues:

Luc Moreau: all feedback have been incorporated, confirm that the group is happy with the following issues:

15:35:17 <ivan> ISSUE-530?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-530?

15:35:17 <trackbot> ISSUE-530 -- Data Model Section 5.7.2 (Table 6) -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-530 -- Data Model Section 5.7.2 (Table 6) -- open

15:35:17 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/530

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/530

15:35:22 <ivan> Issue-520?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-520?

15:35:22 <trackbot> ISSUE-520 -- Data Model Section 5.3.1 -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-520 -- Data Model Section 5.3.1 -- open

15:35:22 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/520

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/520

15:35:29 <ivan> ISSUE-522?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-522?

15:35:29 <trackbot> ISSUE-522 -- Data Model Section 5.3.4 -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-522 -- Data Model Section 5.3.4 -- open

15:35:29 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/522

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/522

15:35:37 <ivan> ISSue-509?

Ivan Herman: ISSue-509?

15:35:37 <trackbot> ISSUE-509 -- Data Model Figure 5 -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-509 -- Data Model Figure 5 -- open

15:35:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/509

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/509

15:35:41 <ivan> Issue-526?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-526?

15:35:41 <trackbot> ISSUE-526 -- Data Model Section 5.5.2 -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-526 -- Data Model Section 5.5.2 -- open

15:35:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/526

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/526

15:35:46 <ivan> issue-502?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-502?

15:35:46 <trackbot> ISSUE-502 -- Data Model Section 2.1.2 -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-502 -- Data Model Section 2.1.2 -- open

15:35:46 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/502

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/502

15:35:57 <satya> Luc: Confirm there is agreement on this issues

Luc Moreau: Confirm there is agreement on this issues

15:36:37 <satya> SimonM: Yes

Simon Miles: Yes

15:36:47 <Luc> proposed: ISSUE-530, ISSUE-520,  ISSUE-522, ISSUE-509, ISSUE-526, ISSUE-502 are confirmed to be resolved

PROPOSED: ISSUE-530, ISSUE-520, ISSUE-522, ISSUE-509, ISSUE-526, ISSUE-502 are confirmed to be resolved

15:37:02 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1

15:37:02 <smiles> +1

Simon Miles: +1

15:37:03 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:37:09 <Dong> +1

Trung Huynh: +1

15:37:23 <zednik> +1

Stephan Zednik: +1

15:37:27 <jun> +1

Jun Zhao: +1

15:37:31 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

15:37:42 <Luc> accepted: ISSUE-530, ISSUE-520,  ISSUE-522, ISSUE-509, ISSUE-526, ISSUE-502 are confirmed to be resolved

RESOLVED: ISSUE-530, ISSUE-520, ISSUE-522, ISSUE-509, ISSUE-526, ISSUE-502 are confirmed to be resolved

15:37:54 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Oct/0051.html

Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Oct/0051.html

15:37:59 <satya> Luc: Next item: Normative sections in PROV-DM

Luc Moreau: Next item: Normative sections in PROV-DM

15:38:11 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/diff/998d228b4a8e/model/prov-dm.html

Luc Moreau: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/diff/998d228b4a8e/model/prov-dm.html

15:38:53 <satya> Luc: Introduced a new section on compliance in the document and identifies normative sections

Luc Moreau: Introduced a new section on compliance in the document and identifies normative sections

15:39:07 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:39:51 <satya> Luc: Should Appendix A be normative?

Luc Moreau: Should Appendix A be normative?

15:39:59 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:40:01 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:40:19 <satya> Ivan: This should be normative

Ivan Herman: This should be normative

15:40:23 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:40:37 <Luc> ack iv

Luc Moreau: ack iv

15:40:38 <pgroth> q+ to ask about namespace

Paul Groth: q+ to ask about namespace

15:40:43 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan

15:40:50 <jcheney> q+

James Cheney: q+

15:40:59 <satya> Paul: Should namespace be normative?

Paul Groth: Should namespace be normative?

15:41:04 <satya> Luc: It is

Luc Moreau: It is

15:41:08 <ivan> ack pgroth

Ivan Herman: ack pgroth

15:41:08 <Zakim> pgroth, you wanted to ask about namespace

Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth, you wanted to ask about namespace

15:41:24 <pgroth> 5.74

Paul Groth: 5.74

15:41:26 <pgroth> got it

Paul Groth: got it

15:42:06 <Luc> ack jc

Luc Moreau: ack jc

15:42:10 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:42:10 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

15:42:14 <satya> JamesC: Not sure if the table is enough to ensure that users are following it

James Cheney: Not sure if the table is enough to ensure that users are following it

15:42:36 <satya> Ivan: The documents (PROV-O) have the details

Ivan Herman: The documents (PROV-O) have the details

15:42:48 <Dong> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-dm.html#cross-references-to-prov-o-and-prov-n

Trung Huynh: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-dm.html#cross-references-to-prov-o-and-prov-n

15:44:34 <satya> JamesC: What instructions are present for implementors?

James Cheney: What instructions are present for implementors?

15:45:00 <satya> Ivan: No users will implement the mappings

Ivan Herman: No users will implement the mappings

15:45:18 <satya> JamesC: Ok, was just wondering if there are additional requirements for implementation

James Cheney: Ok, was just wondering if there are additional requirements for implementation

15:45:23 <satya> Ivan: No

Ivan Herman: No

15:45:24 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

15:45:40 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

15:45:59 <satya> Luc: Table is relevant for mapping from one serialization to another

Luc Moreau: Table is relevant for mapping from one serialization to another

15:46:14 <satya> Ivan: Yes (should not be present in the exit criteria)

Ivan Herman: Yes (should not be present in the exit criteria)

15:46:24 <jcheney> OK, so I'm happy with "this table is the starting point", as long as it's clear that it's not (meant to be) a complete spec of the mapping

James Cheney: OK, so I'm happy with "this table is the starting point", as long as it's clear that it's not (meant to be) a complete spec of the mapping

15:47:00 <jcheney> Perhaps PROV-XML should have such a table too if it doesn't already

James Cheney: Perhaps PROV-XML should have such a table too if it doesn't already

15:47:04 <satya> Paul: Having this section as normative helps the users

Paul Groth: Having this section as normative helps the users

15:47:09 <Luc> proposed: to accept the split normative/informative in the current editor's draft of prov-dm

PROPOSED: to accept the split normative/informative in the current editor's draft of prov-dm

15:47:12 <ivan> +1 to James

Ivan Herman: +1 to James

15:47:13 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:47:15 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1

15:47:15 <satya> +1

+1

15:47:28 <Curt> +1

Curt Tilmes: +1

15:47:30 <Dong> +1

Trung Huynh: +1

15:47:31 <pgroth> +1

Paul Groth: +1

15:47:32 <CraigTrim> +1

Craig Trim: +1

15:47:37 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

15:47:48 <zednik> +1

Stephan Zednik: +1

15:48:00 <Luc> accepted:  the split normative/informative in the current editor's draft of prov-dm

RESOLVED: the split normative/informative in the current editor's draft of prov-dm

15:48:14 <satya> Ivan/Luc: Have a mapping table in PROV-XML

Ivan/Luc: Have a mapping table in PROV-XML

15:48:36 <ivan> great satya

Ivan Herman: great satya

15:49:00 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Oct/0050.html

Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Oct/0050.html

15:49:11 <satya> Paul: Updates on the DC and XML in the mailing list

Paul Groth: Updates on the DC and XML in the mailing list

15:49:32 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Sep/0109.html

Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Sep/0109.html

15:49:36 <Luc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Sep/0113.html

Luc Moreau: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2012Sep/0113.html

15:49:44 <pgroth> @Curt/hook/stephan - can you send a brief update on the list on the status of xml?

Paul Groth: @Curt/hook/stephan - can you send a brief update on the list on the status of xml?

15:49:45 <Luc> ISSUE-519 and ISSUE-523 (Influence Inheritance)

Luc Moreau: ISSUE-519 and ISSUE-523 (Influence Inheritance)

15:49:52 <satya> Luc: Next item: Original issues raised by Robert

Luc Moreau: Next item: Original issues raised by Robert

15:50:56 <Zakim> - +1.818.731.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.818.731.aaaa

15:52:08 <satya> Luc: Discussing the raised issue, added an extra table for the relations (influencer and influencee)

Luc Moreau: Discussing the raised issue, added an extra table for the relations (influencer and influencee)

15:52:09 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/diff/9fb92e012cec/model/prov-dm.html

Luc Moreau: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/diff/9fb92e012cec/model/prov-dm.html

15:52:18 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:52:19 <pgroth> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/b276b292cd9d/model/prov-dm.html#component3

Paul Groth: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/b276b292cd9d/model/prov-dm.html#component3

15:52:29 <Luc> ack pg

Luc Moreau: ack pg

15:53:24 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

15:53:45 <satya> Luc: Early feedback can be incorporated before next review

Luc Moreau: Early feedback can be incorporated before next review

15:54:12 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

15:54:53 <Luc> wasDerivedFrom(e2,e1)  implies wasInfluencedBy(e2,e1)

Luc Moreau: wasDerivedFrom(e2,e1) implies wasInfluencedBy(e2,e1)

15:55:11 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:55:28 <pgroth> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/b276b292cd9d/model/prov-dm.html#mapping-relations-to-influence-table

Paul Groth: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/b276b292cd9d/model/prov-dm.html#mapping-relations-to-influence-table

15:56:48 <satya> Ivan: This is basically a subPropertyOf correspondence between the properties

Ivan Herman: This is basically a subPropertyOf correspondence between the properties

15:56:54 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:56:57 <Luc> ack ivan

Luc Moreau: ack ivan

15:56:57 <satya> Luc: Yes

Luc Moreau: Yes

15:56:59 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan

15:57:12 <satya> Luc: Feedback on the proposal

Luc Moreau: Feedback on the proposal

15:57:27 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:57:50 <satya> Ivan: Is this an editorial change for clarification

Ivan Herman: Is this an editorial change for clarification

15:57:53 <satya> Luc: Yes

Luc Moreau: Yes

15:58:13 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

15:58:16 <Luc> ack iva

Luc Moreau: ack iva

15:58:38 <Luc> topic: prov-xml

4. prov-xml

Summary: Stephan briefed the group on progress on the prov-xml schema and associated document.

<luc>Summary: Stephan briefed the group on progress on the prov-xml schema and associated document.
15:58:46 <satya> Luc: Next item: PROV-XML

Luc Moreau: Next item: PROV-XML

15:58:48 <pgroth> next week

Paul Groth: next week

15:59:41 <satya> StephanZ: Discussed feedback from implementations (e.g. Luc) and updated schema

Stephan Zednik: Discussed feedback from implementations (e.g. Luc) and updated schema

16:00:25 <satya> StephanZ: Created tools to build automated html pages from concepts descriptions (?)

Stephan Zednik: Created tools to build automated html pages from concepts descriptions (?)

16:00:46 <satya> StephanZ: Updates based on feedback progressing smoothly

Stephan Zednik: Updates based on feedback progressing smoothly

16:01:16 <Luc> q?

Luc Moreau: q?

16:01:48 <ivan> thanks to all, bye

Ivan Herman: thanks to all, bye

16:01:52 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

16:01:53 <jun> bye

Jun Zhao: bye

16:01:54 <Zakim> -ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -ivan

16:01:55 <Zakim> -CraigTrim

Zakim IRC Bot: -CraigTrim

16:01:56 <Zakim> -??P27

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P27

16:01:59 <Dong> thanks, bye

Trung Huynh: thanks, bye

16:01:59 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes

Zakim IRC Bot: -Curt_Tilmes

16:01:59 <jcheney> bye

James Cheney: bye

16:02:00 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

16:02:00 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo

Zakim IRC Bot: -Satya_Sahoo

16:02:03 <Zakim> -jcheney

Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney

16:02:06 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.a]

16:02:18 <Zakim> -??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P1

16:02:26 <Zakim> -pgroth

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth

16:02:29 <Zakim> -Luc

Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc

16:02:40 <Luc> rrsagent, set log public

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, set log public

16:02:44 <Luc> rrsagent, draft minutes

Luc Moreau: rrsagent, draft minutes

16:02:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/11-prov-minutes.html Luc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/11-prov-minutes.html Luc

16:02:47 <Luc> trackbot, end telcon

Luc Moreau: trackbot, end telcon

16:02:47 <trackbot> Sorry, Luc, I don't understand 'trackbot, end telcon '. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, Luc, I don't understand 'trackbot, end telcon '. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

16:02:52 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended

16:02:52 <Zakim> Attendees were pgroth, Luc, Curt_Tilmes, MacTed, ivan, Satya_Sahoo, +1.818.731.aaaa, jcheney, [IPcaller], +1.713.754.aabb, CraigTrim

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were pgroth, Luc, Curt_Tilmes, MacTed, ivan, Satya_Sahoo, +1.818.731.aaaa, jcheney, [IPcaller], +1.713.754.aabb, CraigTrim



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This revision (#7) generated 2012-10-15 11:18:40 UTC by 'lmoreau', comments: None