20 Dec 2011


See also: IRC log


Jeanne_Holm, Anne_Washington, Brian_Grythm, Dave_McAllister, Gannon_Dick, Tim__Vollmer, Sarah_Hinchcliff_Pearson, Rachel_Flagg, Brand_Niemann, Thomas_Roessler, Brain, McGrath
Jeanne Holm
Bhyland, Jeanne_, PhilA2


<davemc> I think its just egov

<tvol> hi i'm tvol, aka Timothy Vollmer from Creative Commons. I'm calling in from Mountain View, CA.

<tvol> we have slides if anyone wants to follow along.

<davemc> yes please (to slides

<annew> Can you send a link for the materials?

<Jeanne_> eGov IG was the name of the Zakim telecon

<Bhyland> Speakers:     --Dr. Anne Fitzgerald, University of Queensland, http://www.law.qut.edu.au/staff/facstaff/afitzgerald.jsp    --Sarah Pearson and team, Creative Commons, http://creativecommons.org/  Agenda:   --Licensing issues for open data and government services   --Impacts of licensing choices on providers and consumers of data and services   --Looking at specific uses of Creative Commons   --Open questions

<annew> Presentation is at http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/index.php?title=File:W3c_eGov_License_CC.pptx&oldid=3252#file

general awareness raising on licensing structures and licenses that are being used for eGov content.

<Bhyland> @Jeanne do you have a scribe or want want for this meeting?

<Jeanne_> Bernadette, yes I do need a scribe. Would you be willing to do so?

<Bhyland> Speaking: Timothy Vollmer and Sarah Pearson and team, Creative Commons, calling in from California

<bgryth> Is anyone else having a problem downloading the slide deck?

<Bhyland> @jeanne, I can as long as Net access holds while I'm a passenger in a car on I-95.

<davemc> I got it but it took two tries

<PhilA2> scribe: Bhyland

Jeanne- can you put the link to the slides in IRC please

<PhilA2> Slides now http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/index.php?title=File:W3c_eGov_License_CC.pptx&oldid=3252#file

<Jeanne_> Bgryth: It should be the first link on the page at http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/index.php?title=File:W3c_eGov_License_CC.pptx&oldid=3252#file then right click and "save as" will be a clean download

<bgryth> @Jeanne thank worked perfectly.

Tim described many different government uses of the CC-0 license, see the presentation associated with this talk.

US Gov't uses CC licenses and there is recent precedent for use of the CC-BY license by the US Dept of Labor and Dept of Education which is a notable new development.

Sarah speaking on the importance of publishing content with a license. First, legal certainty of use of content is important.

Additionally, Interoperability, notice, And metadata. Again, providing certainty for use of content.

<Jeanne_> Sarah noted that CC alows use without endorsement, avoids misrepresentation, and protects the insignia or brand of the publisher

Creative Commons licensing addresses issues to ensure credit, No endorsement, No misrepresentation. Insignias and brands are not affected by use in CC licensed content.

Tim: CC-0 offers content into the Public Domain, including database rights. It is the gold standard.

<Jeanne_> More on the CC Zero tool can be found at http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/

<Jeanne_> Jeanne is scribe

<Jeanne_> Sarah: there are other options as well, including the open data commons that applies only to databases.

<Jeanne_> CC applies to the databases as well as the content and the database structure.

<Jeanne_> Attribution content is a little difficult, and more flexibility is in the CC rather than the ODC

<PhilA2> The UK Gov Licence is at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/open-government-licence.htm

<Jeanne_> Sarah: the UK Open Government license is also used

<PhilA2> scribe: Jeanne_

Sarah: Custom licenses can be used as well, but can provide interoperability issues for developers and consumers of the data
... CC has just launched the public discussion on version 4.0

<tvol> more info on 4.0 here: http://wiki.creativecommons.org/4.0

<tvol> we invite your participation of course!

Sarah: Some governments have had issues with the current licenses looking at database rights, internationalization (drafting conventions), interoperability, and simplifying attribution
... These are the big topic areas considering for version 4.0

<PhilA2> scribe: PhilA2

Jeanne_: Govs at different levels around the world are publishing open data, thinking of members of the IG not present this eve, what should developing countries be looking for?

Sarah: First thing is to work out who actually owns the rights

<Jeanne_> Jeanne_: What are some of the common issues that need to be resolved before a city or country can make decisions about licensing?

Sarah: sounds simple but it may not be
... privacy law also comes in

<Jeanne_> Sarah: Determine who owns the data, which can be complicated.

<Jeanne_> Thanks Phil!

<Bhyland> Sarah: RE: first step to attaching a license is to figure out WHO owns the data to begin with before determining which CC or open license to apply.

<Bhyland> Second are privacy related. Is there any personally identifiable information.

<scribe> scribe: Bhyland

<Jeanne_> Are the any questions from the chat group here?

Jeanne asked about associating a license with data.gov content.

Sarah: while USG is made available under the public domain, that is true in the US but not necessarily outside of the US. Thus, content may not have the impact desired.

<PhilA2> So far I have http://www.aupsi.org/presentations



Brian from Cclorado asked a question about database rights in the US

AnneFitzgerald spoke on international treatment of database rights. There is no clear dividing line on what is protected and what is not. It is largely based on precedent.

Brian Gryth, involved with NGO in State of Colorado.

Attorney, but not copyright expert... Looking to use a CC license if at all possible.

<PhilA2> Maybe this one for example http://www.aupsi.org/presentations/documents/Neale-Hooper-JamesCookUniversityCairns16November2011.pptx (it's the most recent)

AnneF: pointed to a wealth of presentations that detail what she is speaking about, www.aupsi.org/presentations. There is a lot of AU precedent for geospatial content, Gov't datasets for natural disasters.

<davemc> I've got to drop at 3 PDT for a call on Accessibility. sorry for the conflict.

<Jeanne_> Thanks for joining us Dave!

<PhilA2> Present Anne_Fitzgerald

AU geospatial community have been the pioneers of a simplified licensing model circa 2005.

<bgryth> @Bhyland it is Brian Gryth.

Beginnings of the proposal was based on CC framework by 2006. By 2010, they had a completed framework.

CC-BY is being accepted by AU Gov't at local, state and national level.

AU geospatial people, the data creators and custodians drove this. The Queensland Gov helped pioneer this work.

AnneF: in 2011 the environmental science community has really pursued use of CC licenses and identify which one is right for their needs.

Note: Australia is different thatnppp

Different than many Gov't that don't assert a government copyright.

AnneF: AU has a sophisticated understanding and wide uptake in the use of CC licenses. This has rea

Really helped strengthen reuse and new (derivative?) works.

<PhilA2> Bhyland: Thanks to Sarah, Tim and Anne for the presentations. Can you tell us about some of the lessons learned about how you brought people up the learning curve

<PhilA2> ... was it through guidelines? Reaching the stewards of the data?

<PhilA2> ... I'm more concerned with data on the Web

<PhilA2> AnnF: That's a hard question. In Au we didn't have as clear cut a position as in the US for a policy framework

<PhilA2> ... that was a big issue. Getting people to see where the international direction of travel was heading

<tvol> anne mentioned OMB. See http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/circulars_a130_a130trans4

AnneF: in the US Gov, there is no copyright ascribed in data.... There is clear policy framework prescribed by the US OMB. In AU, this was not the case. The AU open Gov't data advocates.

Worked with Open Access data through the major agencies with publishable data, eg geospatial camp,

In in AU, circa 2004-2005 there was a lot of person to person advocacy with key agencies, eg AU Bureau of Statistics and Geodata


There needs to be senior and experienced people who can speak knowledgeably about copyright law with public sector employees.

We have advantage of the uptake of CC-BY licenses by other governments around the world.

<PhilA2> Worth dropping this into the IRC http://creativecommons.org.au/

AnneF: explained nuances of CC-BY attribution. There are a bunch of fact sheets on the AU Creative Commons website.

<PhilA2> Lots of materials available at http://creativecommons.org.au/learn-more including videos, talks etc.

<PhilA2> Next meeting is 17 Jan 2012

<PhilA2> Jeanne_: invites agenda items

<PhilA2> ... hoping to talk about CKAN etc.

<PhilA2> Jeanne_: Thanks to Bernadette for scribing

<tvol> thanks everyone please feel to send other questions tvol@creativecommons.org

<PhilA2> ... and to everyone for sharing knowledge today

Thanks all, GrEAT DISCUSSION! happy kwanza, hanuka and Christmas all.

Rssagent, make logs public

Summary of Action Items

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Scribes: Bhyland, Jeanne_, PhilA2
ScribeNicks: Bhyland, Jeanne_, PhilA2
Present: Jeanne_Holm Anne_Washington Brian_Grythm Dave_McAllister Gannon_Dick Tim__Vollmer Sarah_Hinchcliff_Pearson Rachel_Flagg Brand_Niemann Thomas_Roessler Brain McGrath

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<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2011Dec/0020.html
Got date from IRC log name: 20 Dec 2011
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/12/20-egov-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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