Global Participation Breakout

02 Nov 2011

See also: IRC log


AnnBassetti, TakiKamiya, HiroNakajima, TedGuild, KarenMyers, JariAlvinen, CarlCargill, CoralieMercier, SteveBratt, RichardIshida, RuinanSun, OlivierThereaux, WeidongMa, RalphSwick, BertBos, JunyaNakata, MasaoIsshiki, YuichiroFukushi, TaisukeFukuno, KojiIshii, Chaals, KazAshimura
Ralph, ted, hiro, karen


<inserted> scribenick: Ralph

AnnB: 3 proposals combined
... my original proposal was generally how to increase global participation
... Ted Guild proposed to look at specific participation tools

<ted> anne: i'm asking about global participation in w3c and steve bratt (web foundation) is wanting to solve this problem for more audiences

AnnB: Isuke wants to talk about an idea for a common language

<inserted> scribenick: ted


-language (lack of a common language)


-time zones

-access to technology


-phone calls


-visa (international borders and politics)


-cultural differences

-meeting/phone etiquette

on time zone issue: reading emails and minutes after a call is a disadvantage, conversation already took place. now out of context

<Ralph> on cultural differences: reluctance to speak an opposing opinion

email volume - take for example html5 ml which has 4-500 msgs/day

different interests by organization or country

example of specific (working|interest) group being run in parallel in more than one language

it is not just about participation but representation of your needs and requirements

advocates, representatives able to collect input for a group and bring to w3c

<inserted> scribenick: hiro


- languages specific / local interest groups

- consider how to enable participation other than direct participation in group

scribe: (e.g. "advocates") - may be most effective if advocate has personal connection to the barrier

[Taisuke's slide]

<Bert> Globish

<olivier> See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English

<koalie> olivier, Simple English == Simplish?

-SIMPLE language (e.g. "simple english", "globish")

<SteveB> Voice of America Simple Emglish Radio/video chAnnl : http://www.voanews.com/learningenglish/home/

<inserted> scribenick: karen

<kojiishi> Wikipedia defines "Basic English" http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English

scribe: find a real-time translator, so while in the queue they can enter what they are going to say
... realize sooner when message does not make sense
... use of tools
... encouragement

Ann: A group chat tool
... has an amazing translation

Ted: you set language preferences

Coralie: mibbit.com, a web-based IRC client that translates and cross-translates

Ted: Dave Raggett has similar tool

Ann: question on subject of translation
... how well people find automatic translation working for them
... Google translation gives me a sense of what is being sait
... I can read some French and Spanish, but use Chinese and Japanese translation

Richard: I speak English but also have trouble listening on conference calls

<ted> technical jargon

Richard: due to difficult concepts

Charles: we need to be clear and speak slowly [imitating an example]

Ann: A guy yesterday spoke even faster than TimBL yesterday

Charles: what Ted said; tools to help us know when we are being too complicated
... more important is understanding in groups
... that you should behave like this
... understanding that you should be trying to be clear
... and you should not be very humorous, witty, eloquent
... using flowery language
... it's about the culture of how we work
... This is something we can decide, work towards

Olivier: and enforce

Charles: you have limits to enforcing
... we have learned how to use irc

<ted> my suggestion was tools (eg use real time translators) and conventions. someone needs to be able to raise attention on a call that the level of english being used needs to be toned down towards globish/simplified english

Charles: we can use how to use clear communication and language

<hiro> karen: when people speaks slowly, it helps people to scribe.

<ted> karen: interesting exercise for scribing. when one speaks slowly and clearly it is possible to scribe word for word instead of paraphrasing

Carl: excellent solution to a technical discussion
... when you get into legal, political or other strategies
... it will fail
... it is a limited field of use
... primarily limited to technical discussions where there is a shared understanding of the concepts
... keep that in mind as a limitation

Charles: I don't entirely agree
... Globish is most useful and effective in discussing concrete and logical things
... it is an easy fit

<ted> [are politics logical? :)]

Charles: harder to use Globish to discuss art
... complex legal ideals

Ann: or something specific to a culture

Charles: if we decide to make a culture where we try to be clear and simple
... then we learn how to describe ideas better
... it is possible to describe very complex things in very common language
... it takes thinking
... and until you are used to thinking about it
... and until you decide it is valuable, people don't do the work to be clear
... they just speak in whatever ways they want
... the culture is important to making it work
... we get better
... not it works, it fails
... it works a bit, it gets better
... another point is good scribes
... translate complex English into Globish
... there are good scribes around W3C

Ann: nervous that we are going to miss lunch
... and we have not even touched upon technologies and tools that Ted brought up
... and we did not get to Ruinan's question of getting people to participate
... and Carl's question about getting people to learn about W3C

Carl: if we adopt this approach
... participation will become more fruitful and build upon momentum

Ann: I would like to propose...there are some empty slots
... by the pool to talk about what Web Foundation is doing
... a project to measure the success of the Web in the world

Steve: thanks for the plug

Ann: Ted, do you want to propose another session?

Ted: I was suggesting tools for helping for Globish
... my original proposal was making W3C a better collaborative environmnet
... when we are not f2f cannot see people's reactions
... I did not feel so strongly about video, but starting to feel differently

Ann: Boeing uses video effectively and I would be happy to talk about it

Ted: regardless if language is a barrier, one needs to re-explain
... maybe we can come up with simple way to flag things on irc

Charles: like don't use the word "facilitate"

Ted: Maybe flag to the speaker that they are losing people

Ann: In Boeing and you cannot get in, there is a beeper

Charles: tools can help us but won't save us
... what we decide to do will make a difference
... culture matters and the way we agree to work
... When I went to France to learn French
... I sat down with native French speakers
... and asked them to correct me
... and they did it again and again
... don't say this, say that
... and I learned over time
... by doing it by asking people to help, people helped

<koalie> meeting: Breakout: Global participation

<koalie> s/... find a real-time/Ted: fine a real-time/

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2011/11/02 22:20:07 $

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Present: AnnBassetti TakiKamiya HiroNakajima TedGuild KarenMyers JariAlvinen CarlCargill CoralieMercier SteveBratt RichardIshida RuinanSun OlivierThereaux WeidongMa RalphSwick BertBos JunyaNakata MasaoIsshiki YuichiroFukushi TaisukeFukuno KojiIshii Chaals KazAshimura
Got date from IRC log name: 02 Nov 2011
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/11/02-global-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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<dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report

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