See also: IRC log
<inserted> scribenick: Ralph
AnnB: 3 proposals combined
... my original proposal was generally how to increase global
participation
... Ted Guild proposed to look at specific participation
tools
<ted> anne: i'm asking about global participation in w3c and steve bratt (web foundation) is wanting to solve this problem for more audiences
AnnB: Isuke wants to talk about an idea for a common language
<inserted> scribenick: ted
barriers:
-language (lack of a common language)
-literacy
-time zones
-access to technology
-cost
-phone calls
-travel
-visa (international borders and politics)
[introductions]
-cultural differences
-meeting/phone etiquette
on time zone issue: reading emails and minutes after a call is a disadvantage, conversation already took place. now out of context
<Ralph> on cultural differences: reluctance to speak an opposing opinion
email volume - take for example html5 ml which has 4-500 msgs/day
different interests by organization or country
example of specific (working|interest) group being run in parallel in more than one language
it is not just about participation but representation of your needs and requirements
advocates, representatives able to collect input for a group and bring to w3c
<inserted> scribenick: hiro
IDEAS
- languages specific / local interest groups
- consider how to enable participation other than direct participation in group
scribe: (e.g. "advocates") - may be most effective if advocate has personal connection to the barrier
[Taisuke's slide]
<Bert> Globish
<olivier> See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English
<koalie> olivier, Simple English == Simplish?
-SIMPLE language (e.g. "simple english", "globish")
<SteveB> Voice of America Simple Emglish Radio/video chAnnl : http://www.voanews.com/learningenglish/home/
<inserted> scribenick: karen
<kojiishi> Wikipedia defines "Basic English" http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English
scribe: find a real-time
translator, so while in the queue they can enter what they are
going to say
... realize sooner when message does not make sense
... use of tools
... encouragement
Ann: A group chat tool
... has an amazing translation
Ted: you set language preferences
Coralie: mibbit.com, a web-based IRC client that translates and cross-translates
Ted: Dave Raggett has similar tool
Ann: question on subject of
translation
... how well people find automatic translation working for
them
... Google translation gives me a sense of what is being
sait
... I can read some French and Spanish, but use Chinese and
Japanese translation
Richard: I speak English but also have trouble listening on conference calls
<ted> technical jargon
Richard: due to difficult concepts
Charles: we need to be clear and speak slowly [imitating an example]
Ann: A guy yesterday spoke even faster than TimBL yesterday
Charles: what Ted said; tools to
help us know when we are being too complicated
... more important is understanding in groups
... that you should behave like this
... understanding that you should be trying to be clear
... and you should not be very humorous, witty, eloquent
... using flowery language
... it's about the culture of how we work
... This is something we can decide, work towards
Olivier: and enforce
Charles: you have limits to
enforcing
... we have learned how to use irc
<ted> my suggestion was tools (eg use real time translators) and conventions. someone needs to be able to raise attention on a call that the level of english being used needs to be toned down towards globish/simplified english
Charles: we can use how to use clear communication and language
<hiro> karen: when people speaks slowly, it helps people to scribe.
<ted> karen: interesting exercise for scribing. when one speaks slowly and clearly it is possible to scribe word for word instead of paraphrasing
Carl: excellent solution to a
technical discussion
... when you get into legal, political or other
strategies
... it will fail
... it is a limited field of use
... primarily limited to technical discussions where there is a
shared understanding of the concepts
... keep that in mind as a limitation
Charles: I don't entirely
agree
... Globish is most useful and effective in discussing concrete
and logical things
... it is an easy fit
<ted> [are politics logical? :)]
Charles: harder to use Globish to
discuss art
... complex legal ideals
Ann: or something specific to a culture
Charles: if we decide to make a
culture where we try to be clear and simple
... then we learn how to describe ideas better
... it is possible to describe very complex things in very
common language
... it takes thinking
... and until you are used to thinking about it
... and until you decide it is valuable, people don't do the
work to be clear
... they just speak in whatever ways they want
... the culture is important to making it work
... we get better
... not it works, it fails
... it works a bit, it gets better
... another point is good scribes
... translate complex English into Globish
... there are good scribes around W3C
Ann: nervous that we are going to
miss lunch
... and we have not even touched upon technologies and tools
that Ted brought up
... and we did not get to Ruinan's question of getting people
to participate
... and Carl's question about getting people to learn about
W3C
Carl: if we adopt this
approach
... participation will become more fruitful and build upon
momentum
Ann: I would like to
propose...there are some empty slots
... by the pool to talk about what Web Foundation is
doing
... a project to measure the success of the Web in the
world
Steve: thanks for the plug
Ann: Ted, do you want to propose another session?
Ted: I was suggesting tools for
helping for Globish
... my original proposal was making W3C a better collaborative
environmnet
... when we are not f2f cannot see people's reactions
... I did not feel so strongly about video, but starting to
feel differently
Ann: Boeing uses video effectively and I would be happy to talk about it
Ted: regardless if language is a
barrier, one needs to re-explain
... maybe we can come up with simple way to flag things on
irc
Charles: like don't use the word "facilitate"
Ted: Maybe flag to the speaker that they are losing people
Ann: In Boeing and you cannot get in, there is a beeper
Charles: tools can help us but
won't save us
... what we decide to do will make a difference
... culture matters and the way we agree to work
... When I went to France to learn French
... I sat down with native French speakers
... and asked them to correct me
... and they did it again and again
... don't say this, say that
... and I learned over time
... by doing it by asking people to help, people helped
<koalie> meeting: Breakout: Global participation
<koalie> s/... find a real-time/Ted: fine a real-time/
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