IRC log of apidesign on 2011-11-02
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 18:15:56 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #apidesign
- 18:15:56 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/02-apidesign-irc
- 18:16:14 [James]
- James has joined #apidesign
- 18:16:30 [Soonho]
- Soonho has joined #apidesign
- 18:17:12 [spoussa]
- http://www.w3.org/wiki/API_Design_Approaches_and_the_Rationales_for_Them
- 18:19:01 [shan]
- shan has joined #apidesign
- 18:19:15 [Mohammed]
- Mohammed has joined #apidesign
- 18:19:31 [dsr]
- dsr has joined #apidesign
- 18:20:53 [gopal]
- gopal has joined #apidesign
- 18:21:29 [Soonho]
- Bryan are presenting this materials http://bkaj.net/w3c/TPAC-2011-API-Design-Patterns.html
- 18:21:54 [myakura]
- myakura has joined #apidesign
- 18:23:12 [Wonsuk]
- Wonsuk has joined #apidesign
- 18:23:24 [DKA]
- DKA has joined #apidesign
- 18:23:41 [DKA]
- Data Minimization Draft: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/APIMinimization.html
- 18:23:54 [dsr]
- rrsagent, set logs public
- 18:23:54 [jcdufourd]
- jcdufourd has joined #apidesign
- 18:23:58 [dape]
- dape has joined #apidesign
- 18:24:33 [a12u]
- a12u has joined #apidesign
- 18:25:04 [Rossen]
- Rossen has joined #apidesign
- 18:25:10 [ileana]
- ileana has joined #apidesign
- 18:25:20 [dowan]
- dowan has joined #apidesign
- 18:25:29 [dsr]
- DKA: introduces his interest in data minimization as a basis for improving privacy.
- 18:25:50 [si-wei_]
- si-wei_ has joined #apidesign
- 18:25:57 [skim]
- skim has joined #apidesign
- 18:26:32 [dsr]
- The idea is to limit the information passed to a web application to the minimum needed.
- 18:26:56 [dowan]
- dowan has joined #apidesign
- 18:27:36 [dsr]
- It arguably makes it harder for API designers, but is well worth it.
- 18:27:56 [bryan]
- Marcus from MS
- 18:28:09 [dsr]
- Marcus (Microsoft) we should look at who is the audience for the API
- 18:28:22 [heycam_phone]
- heycam_phone has joined #apidesign
- 18:28:27 [si-wei]
- si-wei has joined #apidesign
- 18:28:48 [dsr]
- DKA: same audience as for the DAP APIs, i.e. web API designers.
- 18:29:27 [Qiuling]
- Qiuling has joined #apidesign
- 18:29:29 [dsr]
- Raman (Google) the best approach is hands on and getting practical experience with an API.
- 18:30:05 [dsr]
- Bryan: early experience will ensure that you know that a given API design is effective.
- 18:30:15 [dsr]
- Should we require this for W3C APIs?
- 18:30:23 [dsr]
- Answer: yes
- 18:31:11 [dsr]
- Charles (Opera) you need to be prepared to revisit your assumptions as you get feedback from a wider audience.
- 18:31:34 [fjh]
- fjh has joined #apidesign
- 18:32:00 [si-wei]
- si-wei has joined #apidesign
- 18:32:02 [nvbalaji]
- nvbalaji has joined #apidesign
- 18:32:30 [dsr]
- Marcus (another one) many engineers may not have a background in privacy, and a design guide can be helpful.
- 18:32:44 [Cathy]
- Cathy has joined #apidesign
- 18:32:49 [darobin]
- darobin has joined #apidesign
- 18:33:13 [dsr]
- Privacy by design, security by design.
- 18:33:30 [W3C_]
- W3C_ has joined #apidesign
- 18:33:36 [si-wei_]
- si-wei_ has joined #apidesign
- 18:33:45 [mbodell]
- Michael (Microsoft) Audience important, but you can have multiple audiences, declarative natural for some, but JS natural for others
- 18:33:45 [W3C_]
- W3C_ has left #apidesign
- 18:33:50 [dom]
- dom has joined #apidesign
- 18:33:57 [dsr]
- Bryan: how to we keep such design guidelines live and relevant.
- 18:34:34 [dsr]
- Should the design guidelines be mandated by the Process?
- 18:34:48 [dom]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/ApiCheckList API Checklist
- 18:34:51 [dom]
- s/API C/DAP API C/
- 18:34:55 [Marcos]
- Marcos has joined #apidesign
- 18:34:57 [evanli]
- evanli has joined #apidesign
- 18:35:06 [dsr]
- Dom (W3C) it is way to early for that. We have a small collection of guidelines in DAP WG.
- 18:35:16 [si-wei]
- si-wei has joined #apidesign
- 18:35:33 [Wonsuk]
- Wonsuk has left #apidesign
- 18:35:38 [giuseppep]
- giuseppep has joined #apidesign
- 18:36:35 [alex]
- alex has joined #apidesign
- 18:36:41 [dsr]
- Marcus: there hasn't been any road testing for the DAP WG API checklist, so I agree with Dom that it is too early to nail things down.
- 18:36:54 [dsr]
- Bryan: one key aspect is whether the API is extensible.
- 18:38:14 [dsr]
- Jean-Claude: I would like to hear from other people in the room.
- 18:39:18 [dsr]
- If we don't standardize the higher level APIs someone will later come along with a library that sets a de facto standard (as in JQuery)
- 18:39:25 [Wonsuk]
- Wonsuk has joined #apidesign
- 18:40:04 [dsr]
- APIs should be usable. There is a big range of where you aim for in the range from low level to high level.
- 18:41:15 [dsr]
- There isn't a standard for promises (?)
- 18:41:36 [dsr]
- as an alternative to call backs
- 18:42:01 [dsr]
- Robin: we could do that in W3C fairly quickly.
- 18:42:46 [dsr]
- perhaps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futures_and_promises
- 18:46:13 [dsr]
- Raman: looking at the patterns of usage for APIs can help with understanding what level of API is appropriate.
- 18:47:14 [giuseppep]
- giuseppep has joined #apidesign
- 18:47:24 [dsr]
- If the imperative code switches to your high level API, you are on the right track
- 18:47:30 [dsr]
- s/code/coder/
- 18:47:55 [alex]
- alex has left #apidesign
- 18:48:35 [dsr]
- What's the direction when it comes to asynchrous in main UI thread versus synchronous in a worker thread?
- 18:49:19 [dsr]
- Apple bans synchronous APIs on the UI thread.
- 18:50:35 [dsr]
- We should minimize the frequency of requring user input, but when we do we need to support a non-blocking approach.
- 18:50:59 [michaelchampion]
- michaelchampion has joined #apidesign
- 18:51:29 [dsr]
- If we have to provide asynchronous APIs for the UI thread, why should we bother to also define synchronous APis for worker threads?
- 18:51:31 [youenn]
- youenn has joined #apidesign
- 18:51:56 [dsr]
- If the async calls are too hard we need to rethink the level of the API.
- 18:52:18 [fjh]
- markus speaking
- 18:52:41 [dsr]
- Marus (Microsoft) we should be careful with general statements such as only async interfaces. The context matters.
- 18:52:49 [Linuz]
- Linuz has joined #apidesign
- 18:52:53 [darobin]
- s/Marus/Markus/
- 18:53:20 [dom]
- dom: async apis being to hard to develop for is also a symptom of what we discussed earlier re lack of promises in ecmascript
- 18:54:22 [dsr]
- Robin: I think on the whole that doing both async and sync APIs is a bad idea.
- 18:55:17 [dsr]
- Libraries can help to deal with complexities of async APIs. Unless there are compelling reasons, we should avoid synchronous APIs.
- 18:56:04 [a12u]
- a12u has joined #apidesign
- 18:56:12 [giuseppep]
- giuseppep has joined #apidesign
- 18:56:59 [dsr]
- We can learn from developer experience and the kinds of wrappers/libraries people come up with and refine our APIs
- 18:57:51 [jmr]
- jmr has joined #apidesign
- 18:57:52 [dsr]
- Lower level APIs are easier to reach consensus on as the issues are clearer. Higher level APIs can take a long time to mature,
- 18:58:55 [dsr]
- Dom: what can we do to invite developer feedback at an early enough stage?\
- 18:59:41 [dsr]
- Robin: a JQuery standards group has formed with the aim of feedback experience in standards.
- 18:59:54 [dsr]
- We should reach out to those guys.
- 19:01:05 [myakura]
- myakura has left #apidesign
- 19:01:17 [dsr]
- Bryan: summarises the discussion from his notes on the flip chart
- 19:02:36 [Wonsuk]
- Wonsuk has left #apidesign
- 19:04:06 [dape]
- dape has joined #apidesign
- 19:04:57 [AndroUser2]
- AndroUser2 has joined #apidesign
- 19:08:32 [youenn]
- youenn has left #apidesign
- 19:12:58 [gopal]
- gopal has joined #apidesign
- 20:02:25 [dsr]
- dsr has joined #apidesign
- 20:02:53 [spoussa]
- spoussa has joined #apidesign
- 20:07:38 [fjh]
- fjh has joined #apidesign
- 20:09:59 [dsr_]
- dsr_ has joined #apidesign
- 20:16:39 [si-wei]
- si-wei has joined #apidesign
- 20:25:20 [si-wei]
- si-wei has joined #apidesign
- 20:27:59 [DKA]
- DKA has joined #apidesign
- 20:29:46 [spoussa]
- spoussa has joined #apidesign
- 20:32:19 [Marcos]
- Marcos has joined #apidesign
- 20:36:46 [dom]
- dom has left #apidesign
- 20:37:13 [si-wei]
- si-wei has joined #apidesign
- 20:37:21 [darobin]
- darobin has joined #apidesign
- 20:37:26 [si-wei]
- si-wei has joined #apidesign
- 20:37:46 [si-wei]
- si-wei has joined #apidesign
- 20:38:24 [fjh]
- fjh has joined #apidesign
- 20:39:40 [si-wei]
- si-wei has joined #apidesign
- 20:43:33 [darobin]
- darobin has left #apidesign
- 20:46:37 [evanli]
- evanli has joined #apidesign
- 20:47:20 [si-wei]
- si-wei has joined #apidesign
- 20:47:35 [si-wei]
- si-wei has left #apidesign
- 21:29:34 [dsr]
- dsr has joined #apidesign
- 21:29:35 [Wonsuk]
- Wonsuk has joined #apidesign
- 21:29:54 [Wonsuk]
- Wonsuk has left #apidesign
- 21:30:17 [evanli]
- evanli has joined #apidesign
- 21:34:26 [si-wei]
- si-wei has joined #apidesign
- 21:34:39 [dape]
- dape has joined #apidesign
- 21:34:55 [si-wei]
- si-wei has joined #apidesign
- 21:34:56 [Marcos]
- Marcos has joined #apidesign
- 21:35:27 [si-wei]
- si-wei has left #apidesign
- 21:38:10 [fjh]
- fjh has joined #apidesign
- 21:42:54 [dsr]
- dsr has joined #apidesign
- 21:48:08 [fjh]
- fjh has joined #apidesign
- 21:49:06 [spoussa]
- spoussa has joined #apidesign
- 22:03:34 [spoussa]
- spoussa has joined #apidesign
- 22:32:30 [fjh]
- fjh has joined #apidesign
- 22:41:46 [evanli]
- evanli has joined #apidesign
- 22:44:40 [mmielke]
- mmielke has joined #apidesign
- 22:46:54 [si-wei]
- si-wei has joined #apidesign
- 22:47:10 [si-wei]
- si-wei has left #apidesign
- 22:54:38 [spoussa]
- spoussa has joined #apidesign
- 22:57:08 [spoussa]
- spoussa has joined #apidesign
- 23:39:44 [Marcos]
- Marcos has joined #apidesign
- 23:42:28 [Marcos]
- Marcos has joined #apidesign