See agenda above.
Shawn: any questions or comments on BAD? BAD will probably be announced next week.
Shawn: f2f - deadlines next Monday for
hotel, next Thursday for registration
... If you need help with the fees, email Shawn
Shawn: Web Accessibility Metrics Conference Symposium - If you know of anyone who's interested, please tell them. Papers will be published as conference proceedings (fairly formal). Symposium will be online.
Shawn: Be sure to update your availability for Upcoming EO Teleconferences.
<shawn> issues: same titles difficult for nav by screen reader. cannot attach annotation to page title
<shawn> option: put something at the beginning of title, e.g., [inaccessible Home]
<Vicki> I agree fully with this approach: Overview explanation, Accessible + title, Inaccessible + title
Jennifer: Page titles seemingly
ignored by sighted viewers, but hard to use by screen reader
... Suggest modifying title so that it makes more sense to screen readers and still provides information for sighted users (as one problem is also that titles can't be annotated).
Vicki: Agrees that titles should be modified.
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say leave it! add notation (maybe after) inaccessible ones and figure out a way to put annotation.
hbj: Leave it as is for now, wait for reactions
Helle concerned about changes affecting publication. Doesn't want to create new problems.
Shawn: very useful demo, wants to show it off. Could leave accessible page titles alone, modify inaccessible page titles by adding something at end.
Helle: wonders how inaccessible the inaccessible version is. Shadi says that first part is pretty accessible, less accessible further into screen reader demo
<shawn> ..::CityLights:::::::..................... [inaccessible News]
<shadi> ..::Citylights::.. [Inaccessible Survey]
<shawn> ..::CityLights:::::::::::::::.. [inaccessible News]
Char: Asks if we can just reduce the number of trailing colons and periods
Screen readers are customizable; multiple punctuation probably won't be read.
<shawn> Shadi: colons and periods were intentionally done as an example of an accessible issue
Jennifer: If no explanatory text, then maybe we're trying to cover too much
<shawn> Helle: different screen readers will handle punctuation differently
<shadi> Welcome to Citylights [Inaccessible Home Page]
<shawn> Shawn: with the punctuation between CityLights and [Inaccessible News], then the bracket info falls off tabs in browser in many cases
Shadi: Inaccessible pages will all be titled "Welcome to CityLights"
<shawn> RESOLUTION: Welcome to Citylights! [Inaccessible Home]
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say (later in discussion) figure out a way to put the annotation
Shawn: would like page title to have an annotation. Not sure how it would be implemented, but it's needed.
Jennifer: "Template" would be best place to add it.
Shawn: somre resources available to get involved with communities
Shadi: wonders how we can engage
more in community. Two sides: lot of resources at WAI, which
aren't being found; learning curve for beginners and
... interested in hearing about approaches with various tools
... one possibility - online forums, where people post and answer Q&A; could provide ratings. Win-win: people who post a lot get recognition, some people are motiviated by this, lots of moderators who help newbies
... curious about what makes different platforms work and fail
... could implement "Did You Know...?" or "Tip of the Day" to share information
Sharon: One thing that she noticed during unconferences was how little reference was made to W3C resources
Sharron: Was puzzled by this; WAI
(etc) is bedrock, why so few references?
... We could have things available for handouts (cards, etc) to share with community, especially at grassroots level
... Could coordinate with organizers to make sure that we integrate
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask if lack of awareness of resources? or other reason they're not being mentioned?
Shawn: Why wasn't it mentioned? People not aware? Not appropriate?
Sharron: People who were speaking have integrated W3C resources that they take it for granted
<hbj> +q w3c web site information overload
<hbj> +q to ask if to much information
Sharron: more outreach would help, things that people could point to
<shawn> ISSUE for brainstorm: how to motivate speakers, etc. to share our resources?
Sharron: TechSoup (supports non-profit organizations) has best forums, incorporates lots of info
<Zakim> hbj, you wanted to ask if to much information
Sharron: Jennifer: DC is coming up; could ask John Croston to add links to its page
hbj: Has been a problem for
awhile; still hears that there is information overflow from
WAI, but info is hard to find on website
... also problems with non-English speakers finding information on site. More direct links, possibly from other resources, could help.
... Could increase different types of advertising (but there are funding issues)
Vicki: WAI site is really heavy
with info, but finding it is difficult. Site could be
restructured to make it more user friendly.
... Used to be cards that people could hand out. Also, social tools are great, but need a moderator who will be active.
... Getting started with a11y on website: need info for people not at developer level and for everyday publishers.
Shadi: Wanted to open floor to
make sure we aren't locked into anything. Would like to focus
on tools. Some online forums may not be considered "social"
... Wonders what experience people have with various types of forums. How can we complement with more info that's effective.
... Has been discussion about redesigning WAI website. No matter how it's organized, someone will not be able to find information they need.
... Need more tools for public interaction.
Sharron: We could consider doing podcast from that forum. TechSoup has done this successfully in the past, but forums started to stagnate, so they started doing podcasts and webinars.
Sharron: Purpose was community engagement. Could have competitions, "tip of the month"; become more engaging.
Char: Didn't even occur to me to add W3C/WAI/EO references on Boston Unconference website
<shawn> Resource of the Week/Month
Jennifer: Could add paragraph on blog to resource; people can tweet it/use LinkedIn/use Facebook, etc.
<shawn> Helle: Resource of the Week/Month
Jennifer: could be fairly easy (and inexpensive) way to get started. Each of us could volunteer to take one month (one post a month).
Helle: could be "My Favorite Resource" as we each do it
Shadi: Wonders if anyone has seen this done successfully. Seems that most sites end up fading away.
<shawn> [ /me never listens to podcasts ]
Sharron: Wonders if webinars
might be more successful.
... was a series of webinars, kept getting more popular
<shawn> [ /me notes that we have invitation to do webinars... ]
Sharron: many people are still beginners when it comes to accessibility
Shawn: WAI has invitations to do webinars, we wouldn't have to do publishing part
Jennifer: libraries are really involved in webinars, probably because they have no funding
Vicki: OK with short webinars,
not all that fond overall. Community energy was high after
events she's attended
... attended W3C webinars
<shawn> [ Sharron & Vicki & Shawn : I don't usually participate in webinars ]
Shadi: issue is setting up
resources and letting people know about them.
... Some people don't like podcasts. People coming to WAI website may not listent to podcast for information.
... Wonders what makes different forums successful.
Sharron: Refers to TechSoup
because it works. Very well resourced, use live collaborative
events to complement online resources.
... TechSoup also actively gets into communities these support.
Shawn: Can easily get to a level of info overload.
Char: WAI wants to share info
with various groups
... Boston is trying to add more resources to their website
Shawn: What would "centralized location" include?
Jennifer: Karl Groves is talking
about Knowledge Base. Laura Carlson has site with all sorts of
... information needs to be curated (old stuff needs to fall off).
Shawn: May not be totally possible, but we need to brainstorm to find utopia
Char and Jennifer: information needs to be organized into "conceptual" and "technical". "Conceptual" will rarely become old, just improved. "Technical" needs to be updated.
Shawn: Sharron was catalyst for that Making Federal Government Websites better online discussion thing.
Sharron: Had almost 1000 active
participants. (Seems low to some, high to others)
... People invited to "online discussion" expect to be able to discuss, but it wasn't set up that way.
<Sharron> sorry, my phone died
Jennifer: not convinced wiki is right tool
<Sharron> they did not quite have the right tool either
Char: asked Shawn if there is a centralized location, would it be thru WAI or somewhere else? (Shawn: part of brainstorming, not sure where it would be)
Jennifer: have to worry about "endorsements", etc.
Shawn: problems with Fed Website thing was combo of tools and communication (no one understood what was supposed to happen)
<Sharron> yes agreed. people who were submitting ideas were OK, just posted what they thought.
<Sharron> But people looking for interactivity were frustrated
Shadi: could use tool that incorporates rating system; problem is that rating systems tend to be vulnerable
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say blog posts and to say haven't gotten much tractions in the past (albeit didn't have tweeters spreading like we would today)
<shawn> http://www.w3.org/QA/archive/technology/accessibility/ especially http://www.w3.org/QA/2009/12/share_resources_supporting_the.html & http://www.w3.org/QA/2010/06/make_your_presentations_access.html & http://www.w3.org/QA/2010/01/encourage_accessibility_make_a_difference.html
Shawn: wrap-up: next week, promoting ATAG (read info this week!)
<Vicki> thank you
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/BAD will be announced next week./BAD will probably be announced next week./ Succeeded: s/Page names need to be changed to meet requirements and help with SEO/ / Succeeded: s/put some before title/put something at the beginning of title/ Succeeded: s/EO (WAI? W3C?) /WAI / Succeeded: s/Wonders if Ian knows about any tools that could be used./ / Succeeded: s/ for "Making Federal Government Websites Accessible"./ for that Making Federal Government Websites better online discussion thing./ Found Scribe: Char Inferring ScribeNick: Char Default Present: Shawn, +1.781.598.aaaa, Vicki, +1.562.256.aabb, Wayne, +45.72.42.aacc, Char, +1.650.348.aadd, Jennifer, hbj, +26029aaee, Emmanuelle, Shadi, +1.512.797.aaff, Sharron, IanPouncey Present: Vicki Shawn Char Wayne Helle Jennifer Emmanuelle Shadi Sharron Ian(last_part) Regrets: Sylvie Denis Cliff Got date from IRC log name: 07 Oct 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/10/07-eo-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]