- DRAFT - EOWG 07 Oct 2011


  1. Reminders:
  2. [postponed] Promoting ATAG - get up-to-speed on previous work
  3. BAD page titles
  4. Community engagement brainstorming


Vicki, Shawn, Char, Wayne, Helle, Jennifer, Emmanuelle, Shadi, Sharron, Ian(last_part)
Sylvie, Denis, Cliff
Char - Sharron cleanup



See agenda above.

Shawn: any questions or comments on BAD? BAD will probably be announced next week.

Shawn: f2f - deadlines next Monday for hotel, next Thursday for registration
... If you need help with the fees, email Shawn

Shawn: Web Accessibility Metrics Conference Symposium - If you know of anyone who's interested, please tell them. Papers will be published as conference proceedings (fairly formal). Symposium will be online.

Shawn: Be sure to update your availability for Upcoming EO Teleconferences.

BAD Page Titles

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/demos/bad/


<shawn> issues: same titles difficult for nav by screen reader. cannot attach annotation to page title

<shawn> option: put something at the beginning of title, e.g., [inaccessible Home]

<Vicki> I agree fully with this approach: Overview explanation, Accessible + title, Inaccessible + title

Jennifer: Page titles seemingly ignored by sighted viewers, but hard to use by screen reader users.
... Suggest modifying title so that it makes more sense to screen readers and still provides information for sighted users (as one problem is also that titles can't be annotated).

<hbj> +q

Vicki: Agrees that titles should be modified.

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say leave it! add notation (maybe after) inaccessible ones and figure out a way to put annotation.

hbj: Leave it as is for now, wait for reactions

Helle concerned about changes affecting publication. Doesn't want to create new problems.

Shawn: very useful demo, wants to show it off. Could leave accessible page titles alone, modify inaccessible page titles by adding something at end.

Helle: wonders how inaccessible the inaccessible version is. Shadi says that first part is pretty accessible, less accessible further into screen reader demo

<shawn> ..::CityLights:::::::..................... [inaccessible News]

<shadi> ..::Citylights::.. [Inaccessible Survey]

<shawn> ..::CityLights:::::::::::::::.. [inaccessible News]

<Sharron> +1

Char: Asks if we can just reduce the number of trailing colons and periods

<hbj> +q

<Vicki> brb

Screen readers are customizable; multiple punctuation probably won't be read.

<shawn> Shadi: colons and periods were intentionally done as an example of an accessible issue

Jennifer: If no explanatory text, then maybe we're trying to cover too much

<shawn> Helle: different screen readers will handle punctuation differently

<shadi> Welcome to Citylights [Inaccessible Home Page]

<shawn> Shawn: with the punctuation between CityLights and [Inaccessible News], then the bracket info falls off tabs in browser in many cases

Shadi: Inaccessible pages will all be titled "Welcome to CityLights"

<shawn> RESOLUTION: Welcome to Citylights! [Inaccessible Home]

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say (later in discussion) figure out a way to put the annotation

Shawn: would like page title to have an annotation. Not sure how it would be implemented, but it's needed.

Jennifer: "Template" would be best place to add it.

Brainstorm community engagement

Shawn: somre resources available to get involved with communities

Shadi: wonders how we can engage more in community. Two sides: lot of resources at WAI, which aren't being found; learning curve for beginners and WCAG2
... interested in hearing about approaches with various tools
... one possibility - online forums, where people post and answer Q&A; could provide ratings. Win-win: people who post a lot get recognition, some people are motiviated by this, lots of moderators who help newbies
... curious about what makes different platforms work and fail
... could implement "Did You Know...?" or "Tip of the Day" to share information

Sharon: One thing that she noticed during unconferences was how little reference was made to W3C resources

Sharron: Was puzzled by this; WAI (etc) is bedrock, why so few references?
... We could have things available for handouts (cards, etc) to share with community, especially at grassroots level
... Could coordinate with organizers to make sure that we integrate

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask if lack of awareness of resources? or other reason they're not being mentioned?

Shawn: Why wasn't it mentioned? People not aware? Not appropriate?

Sharron: People who were speaking have integrated W3C resources that they take it for granted

<hbj> +q w3c web site information overload

<hbj> +q to ask if to much information

Sharron: more outreach would help, things that people could point to

<shawn> ISSUE for brainstorm: how to motivate speakers, etc. to share our resources?

Sharron: TechSoup (supports non-profit organizations) has best forums, incorporates lots of info

<Zakim> hbj, you wanted to ask if to much information

Sharron: Jennifer: DC is coming up; could ask John Croston to add links to its page

hbj: Has been a problem for awhile; still hears that there is information overflow from WAI, but info is hard to find on website
... also problems with non-English speakers finding information on site. More direct links, possibly from other resources, could help.
... Could increase different types of advertising (but there are funding issues)

Vicki: WAI site is really heavy with info, but finding it is difficult. Site could be restructured to make it more user friendly.
... Used to be cards that people could hand out. Also, social tools are great, but need a moderator who will be active.
... Getting started with a11y on website: need info for people not at developer level and for everyday publishers.

Shadi: Wanted to open floor to make sure we aren't locked into anything. Would like to focus on tools. Some online forums may not be considered "social" tools.
... Wonders what experience people have with various types of forums. How can we complement with more info that's effective.
... Has been discussion about redesigning WAI website. No matter how it's organized, someone will not be able to find information they need.
... Need more tools for public interaction.

Sharron: We could consider doing podcast from that forum. TechSoup has done this successfully in the past, but forums started to stagnate, so they started doing podcasts and webinars.

<hbj> +q

Sharron: Purpose was community engagement. Could have competitions, "tip of the month"; become more engaging.

Char: Didn't even occur to me to add W3C/WAI/EO references on Boston Unconference website

<shawn> Resource of the Week/Month

Jennifer: Could add paragraph on blog to resource; people can tweet it/use LinkedIn/use Facebook, etc.

<shawn> Helle: Resource of the Week/Month

Jennifer: could be fairly easy (and inexpensive) way to get started. Each of us could volunteer to take one month (one post a month).

Helle: could be "My Favorite Resource" as we each do it

Shadi: Wonders if anyone has seen this done successfully. Seems that most sites end up fading away.

<shawn> [ /me never listens to podcasts ]

Sharron: Wonders if webinars might be more successful.
... was a series of webinars, kept getting more popular

<shawn> [ /me notes that we have invitation to do webinars... ]

Sharron: many people are still beginners when it comes to accessibility

Shawn: WAI has invitations to do webinars, we wouldn't have to do publishing part

Jennifer: libraries are really involved in webinars, probably because they have no funding

Vicki: OK with short webinars, not all that fond overall. Community energy was high after events she's attended
... attended W3C webinars

<shawn> [ Sharron & Vicki & Shawn : I don't usually participate in webinars ]

Shadi: issue is setting up resources and letting people know about them.
... Some people don't like podcasts. People coming to WAI website may not listent to podcast for information.
... Wonders what makes different forums successful.

Sharron: Refers to TechSoup because it works. Very well resourced, use live collaborative events to complement online resources.
... TechSoup also actively gets into communities these support.

Shawn: Can easily get to a level of info overload.

Char: WAI wants to share info with various groups
... Boston is trying to add more resources to their website

Shawn: What would "centralized location" include?

Jennifer: Karl Groves is talking about Knowledge Base. Laura Carlson has site with all sorts of information.
... information needs to be curated (old stuff needs to fall off).

Shawn: May not be totally possible, but we need to brainstorm to find utopia

Char and Jennifer: information needs to be organized into "conceptual" and "technical". "Conceptual" will rarely become old, just improved. "Technical" needs to be updated.

Shawn: Sharron was catalyst for that Making Federal Government Websites better online discussion thing.

Sharron: Had almost 1000 active participants. (Seems low to some, high to others)
... People invited to "online discussion" expect to be able to discuss, but it wasn't set up that way.

<Sharron> sorry, my phone died

Jennifer: not convinced wiki is right tool

<Sharron> they did not quite have the right tool either

Char: asked Shawn if there is a centralized location, would it be thru WAI or somewhere else? (Shawn: part of brainstorming, not sure where it would be)

Jennifer: have to worry about "endorsements", etc.

Shawn: problems with Fed Website thing was combo of tools and communication (no one understood what was supposed to happen)

<Sharron> yes agreed. people who were submitting ideas were OK, just posted what they thought.

<Sharron> But people looking for interactivity were frustrated

Shadi: could use tool that incorporates rating system; problem is that rating systems tend to be vulnerable

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say blog posts and to say haven't gotten much tractions in the past (albeit didn't have tweeters spreading like we would today)

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/QA/archive/technology/accessibility/ especially http://www.w3.org/QA/2009/12/share_resources_supporting_the.html & http://www.w3.org/QA/2010/06/make_your_presentations_access.html & http://www.w3.org/QA/2010/01/encourage_accessibility_make_a_difference.html

Shawn: wrap-up: next week, promoting ATAG (read info this week!)

<Vicki> thank you

<Sharron> thanks

<Vicki> -Vicki

Summary of Action Items

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Succeeded: s/BAD will be announced next week./BAD will probably be announced next week./
Succeeded: s/Page names need to be changed to meet requirements and help with SEO/ /
Succeeded: s/put some before title/put something at the beginning of title/
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Succeeded: s/Wonders if Ian knows about any tools that could be used./ /
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Found Scribe: Char
Inferring ScribeNick: Char
Default Present: Shawn, +1.781.598.aaaa, Vicki, +1.562.256.aabb, Wayne, +45.72.42.aacc, Char, +1.650.348.aadd, Jennifer, hbj, +26029aaee, Emmanuelle, Shadi, +1.512.797.aaff, Sharron, IanPouncey
Present: Vicki Shawn Char Wayne Helle Jennifer Emmanuelle Shadi Sharron Ian(last_part)
Regrets: Sylvie Denis Cliff
Got date from IRC log name: 07 Oct 2011
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/10/07-eo-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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