See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 18 August 2011
<kford> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 18 August 2011
<JAllan> scribe: allanj
<JAllan> scribe: jallan
discussing spreadsheet of IER and summary
discussion of task set up
jeanne 1.2.3
kelly 1.6.4
simon 1.1.4
Jan 1.3.2
kelly examples 1.6.2
jan examples 1.8.9, 1..8.10
<Greg> This is the URL in my window for the hangout, not sure if it will work for other people: https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/cbe7f88538edc819b3321024cade15285cc120b0?authuser=0&hl=en#
<jeanne> For those looking for names of people to use for examples, this web site has international names - http://www.whattoexpect.com/international-baby-names.aspx
back from writing
<jeanne> 1.2.3 Repair Missing Associations:
<jeanne> The user can specify whether or not the user agent should attempt to predict associations from author-specified presentation attributes (i.e. position and appearance). (Level AAA)
<jeanne> Intent
<jeanne> Users can use the appearance or position of an item to determine its importance when scanning a document for information. Assistive Technologies mostly rely on structured text, such as text coded as heading or labels. If the browser uses heuristics to identify text that stands out from others, it can render the page with the best guess of what the structure could be.
<jeanne> Examples:
<jeanne> Saidah uses a web-based text to speech app to read web pages when away from her home computer. She tries to find a news article on a multi-car accident on the freeway she overheard people talking about on the way to library. She goes to a news website to look for an article on the event. The website has no headings on the list of current events articles but has a long list. Saidah does not want
<jeanne> to listen to the teaser for each story, and selects a command in her browser to figure out the headings from the appearance of the page. The browser notes the consistent use of a CSS style for phrases in each paragraph that are bold, in a different color and a larger font size. The browser then redraws the page with those phrases marked as headings. Saidah then uses the feature in her text-to-speech
<jeanne> app to read out the headings and quickly finds the article on the car accident.
<jeanne> Mateus is using a screenreader to complete a form. The form fields are not labeled so he does not know what should be entered in each field. He selects an option in his browser to render the page with structured text, which guesses that the text to the left of each form field is the label, and re-renders the page with the text structured as a label. Mateus finishes completing the form.
rrsagent: make minutes
<kford> Randy has a hearing disability where speech at lower pitches is difficult to hear. He is using an audio browser that reads web pages back to him. He issues a voice command saying "raise pitch" and the overall pitch of the synthetic speech is increased.
<kford> Example 1.6.4
<kford> Penny is using a browser that reads web pages to her and reviewing her most recent banking transactions. She has configured a setting in the speech configuration for the browser to have currency spoken as currency instead of digits. She hears a transaction read as "Deposit, two hundred fifty five dollars," as a result of this change.
<jeanne> ACTION: Jeanne to add IER for 1.2.3 from minutes of 18 August. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-606 - Add IER for 1.2.3 from minutes of 18 August. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-08-25].
<kford> Randy has a hearing disability where speech at lower pitches is difficult to hear. He is using an audio browser that reads web pages back to him. He issues a voice command saying "raise pitch" and the overall pitch of the synthetic speech is increased.
<kford> Penny is using a browser that reads web pages to her and reviewing her most recent banking transactions. She has configured a setting in the speech configuration for the browser to have currency spoken as currency instead of digits. She hears a transaction read as "Deposit, two hundred fifty five dollars," as a result of this change.
<jeanne> ACTION: Jeanne to add 1.6.2 amd 1.6.4 examples to document from minutes of 18 August. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-607 - Add 1.6.2 amd 1.6.4 examples to document from minutes of 18 August. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-08-25].
<kford> ACTION: kford to look at splitting up 1.6.1-3. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-608 - Look at splitting up 1.6.1-3. [on Kelly Ford - due 2011-08-25].
The user can request useful alternative content when the author fails to provide it. For example, showing a filename in place of missing (1.2.1) or empty (1.2.2) alt text. The user can ask the browser to predict altertive content if it is missing (1.2.3) or notifiy the user if the content cannot be rendered (1.2.4).
<Jan1> o Alex has low vision and sometimes has difficulty distinguishing the fields on web forms. He chooses to have all form fields displayed with a yellow background and outlined with a thick black border.
<Jan1> Gary is a keyboard-only user who is browsing a web page when a pop-up advertisement suddenly appears in a new window. The advertisement includes a button labelled “Close”, but Gary is wary of pressing it since it might be deceptively labelled. Instead he closes the advertisement with the standard user agent key command for closing windows and tabs.
<Jan1> Annabelle has multiple browser tabs open and is finished viewing content in one of them. She activates a close button on the viewport to close it.
<Jan1> Gary is a keyboard-only user who is browsing a web page when a pop-up advertisement suddenly appears in a new window. The advertisement includes a button labelled “Close”, but Gary is wary of pressing it since it because he knows it might install malware. Instead he closes the advertisement with the standard user agent key command for closing windows and tabs.
<Jan1> Robert uses magnification software. After setting up his user agent, he knows that web content begins predictably one inch from the top of the window, so he can configure his magnification software to present content starting at that location.
<Jan1> Courtney has difficulty understanding and using complex user interfaces. She has worked with her sister to set up her browser to have only a few of the most common browser controls displayed and she knows to expect them on every browser window.
<Jan1> Annabelle has multiple browser tabs open and is finished viewing content in one of them. She activates a close button on that tab to close it.
<Greg> Kim and I report that we had moved everything out of 1.9 during our major reorganization of Keyboard, Focus, and Navigation (on the UA Wiki), but didn't make clear enough that the section then went away (in part because numbers changed between when we wrote the wiki page and when the changes were made). Here's disposition:
<Greg> 1.9.1 User Interface Focus: An active input focus is provided. (Level A) --> THIS WENT AWAY 2.1.2 requires a keyboard focus for each viewport, and 1.3.1 requires the cursor be highlighted, so this adds nothing.
<Greg> 1.9.2 Extensions Focusable: The keyboard focus can navigate within extensions to the user interface. (Level A) --> NOW 4.2.1
<Greg> 1.9.3 Retrieve Focus: At any time, the user agent can retrieve input focus from a nested viewport (including nested viewports that are user agents). (Level A) --> NOW 4.2.2
<Greg> 1.9.4 Return Focus: Embedded user agents must support a mechanism for returning active input focus to the base user agent. (Level A) --> NOW 4.2.3
resolved: delete all of GL 1.9 as it is all covered in 4.2
kim and greg will work on IER for 4.2 and incorporate leftover bits from 1.9
<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to renumber Principle 1 to compensate for the removal of 1.9 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-ua-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-609 - Renumber Principle 1 to compensate for the removal of 1.9 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-08-25].
<sharper> Editors' Note: where do we put the ability for the user to individually pick an image and have the image displayed. It should not have to be an all or nothing.
<sharper> Added functionality would allow Mary to right click (context menu) on an image to list and select the rendering of the available alternatives (thumbnail, original size, full screen, low resolution, high resolution, alt text, long description, file name)
<sharper> Added functionality would allow Juan to right click (context menu) on an video to list and select the rendering of the available alternatives (still image, caption languages, audio languages, audio-description languages)
<sharper> Examples of Success Criterion 1.1.4:
<sharper> Mary has a learning disability. She finds looking at images on a webpage very distracting. Mary would like to see all images rendered in the following order. First, for images with long descriptions have the long description rendered in place of the image. If the long description does not exit, she wants the ‘alt text’ to be rendered. If neither is available, Mary wants the file name rendered. Added functionality would allow Mary to right click (con
<sharper> menu) on an image to list and select the rendering of the available alternatives (thumbnail, original size, full screen, low resolution, high resolution, alt text, long description, file name)
<sharper> Juan is hard of hearing. He wants to always see video on the page. Also, Juan would like the Spanish language track used if available, along with Spanish captions as a default. If these are not available, he wants to see the video with English audio and captions. If no captions are available Juan wants the the video and English audio. Added functionality would allow Juan to right click (context menu) on an video to list and select the rendering of the
<sharper> available alternatives (still image, caption languages, audio languages, audio-description languages)
<sharper> Related Resources for Success Criterion 1.1.4:
<sharper> Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 2.0; Guideline 1.1 Text Alternatives and Guideline 1.2 Time-based Media (http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/)
2.3.2 Present Direct Commands in Rendered Content (former 2.1.6):
The user can have any recognized direct commands (e.g. accesskey) in rendered content be presented with their associated elements. (Level A)
2.3.3 Direct activation (former 2.7.6)
: The user can move directly to and activate any operable elements in rendered content. (Level AA)
2.5.1 Discover navigation and activation keystrokes: The user can discover direct navigation and activation keystrokes both programmatically and via perceivable labels. (Level A)
<Greg> Per the Wiki page on Keyboard, Focus and Navigation Restructuring: 2.7.1 Discover navigation and activation keystrokes, is about direct navigation/activation so becomes 2.3.3 and 2.3.4, which are now numbered 2.3.2 Present Direct Commands in Rendered Content and 2.3.4 Present Direct Commands in User Interface.
<Greg> Of course, it *was* 2.7.1 but is now 2.5.1, but in either case should be deleted.
<Greg> To sum up, 2.5.1 Discover navigation and activation keystrokes has been replaced by 2.3.2 Present Direct Commands in Rendered Content and 2.3.4 Present Direct Commands in User Interface.
<Greg> It looks like 4.1.6 Properties should include (j) keyboard shortcuts.
<Greg> THEN all of 2.5.1 would be covered by 2.3.2, 2.3.4, and 4.1.6.
<Greg> Thanks for catching that, Jeanne.
<jeanne> From last week's minutes:
<jeanne> 1.10.3 Configure Elements for Hierarchical Views, and 2.5.7 Configure Elements for Structured Navigation?
<jeanne> I think that 1.10.3 Configure Set of Important Elements for Hierarchical Views is a little long.
<jeanne> So I suggested just taking out "set of important" from each.
<jeanne> <KimPatch> configure important elements for structural navigation, configured important elements for hierarchical views
<jeanne> <kford> ACTION: JS to update titles for 1.10.3 and 2.5.7 to remove set of important from title and add elements being configured. See text from KP. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/11-ua-minutes.html#action01]
sh: complete IER for 1.10.3 and use them as a model for 2.5.7
JS: 1.10.3 is for outline view, and 2.5.7 is for navigation
<sharper> SH 1.10.3 & 2.5.7
<sharper> KP & GL 4.2
<sharper> JS: Document Overall
<sharper> KF - Reconvene at 10 to the hour (:50) time now is 11 minutes past
<sharper> GL: found problem 2.5.1
I'll do summaries
<sharper> wiki page says it should be replaced by something else
<Greg> The group is taking a break until 11:50 AM Pacific Time, in order to do writing offline.
<sharper> I'm back
<Jan1> If any of the following properties are supported by the accessibility platform architecture, make the properties available to the accessibility platform architecture: (Level A)
<Jan1> a. the bounding dimensions and coordinates of rendered graphical objects
<Jan1> b. font family of text
<Jan1> c. font size of text
<Jan1> d. foreground color of text
<Jan1> e. background color of text.
<Jan1> f. change state/value notifications
<Jan1> g. selection
<Jan1> h. highlighting
<Jan1> i. input device focus
<Jan1> i.j. direct keyboard commands
<Greg> Hopefully the definition of direct keyboard commands will make it clear to the reader that this includes both hotkeys and accelerator keys.
<Jan1> Fiona uses an audio browser. When the system reads form controls in the rendered content, it reads the label of the form followed by the accesskey.
<Jan1> Mary cannot use the mouse or keyboard due to a repetitive strain injury, instead she uses voice control technology with a mouse-less browsing plug-in to her browser. The plug-in overlays each hyperlink in rendered content with a number that can then be used to directly select it by speaking the command "select link 12". This prevents Mary from having to say the word 'tab' numerous times to...
<Jan1> ...get to her desired hyperlink.
<Jan1> "select link" and then the number of the link.
<Jan1> (e.g. select link 12")
<Jan1> Fiona uses an audio browser. When the system reads form controls in the rendered content, it reads the label of the form followed by the accesskey (e.g., "name alt plus n").
<Jan1> Mary cannot use the mouse or keyboard due to a repetitive strain injury, instead she uses voice control technology with a mouse-less browsing plug-in to her browser. The plug-in overlays each hyperlink in rendered content with a number that can then be used to directly select it by speaking a command (e.g. "select link 12"). This prevents Mary from having to say the word 'tab' numerous times...
<Jan1> ...to get to her desired hyperlink.
<Jan1> Vlad is a keyboard-only user who uses a browser on the Mac OS operating system. When he needs to perform a new operation with the browser user interface, he searches for it in the menus and notes whether the menu item has a "⌘” label (e.g. “Copy ⌘C”), which indicates the direct activation command he can use in the future to avoid having to traverse the menus.
<Jan1> Amir uses ability switches to control an onscreen keyboard for the Windows operating system. When he presses the “alt” key the available browser user interface accesskeys are shown as overlays on the appropriate user interface controls.
<Jan1> Amir uses ability switches to control an onscreen keyboard for the Windows operating system. When he presses the “alt” key the available browser user interface accesskeys are shown as overlays on the appropriate user interface controls (e.g. "File with 'F' in an overlay").
<Greg> I'd prefer to also list a more normal example of access keys, as well as the nonstandard new Office UI, as in "(e.g. File with 'F' in an overlay in Microsoft Office, or with F underlined in Notepad)", but I'm not super concerned about it.
The user agent provides programmatic and visual cues to keep the user oriented. These include highlighting the viewport (1.8.1), keeping the focus within the viewport, resizing the viewport (1.8.3), providing scrollbar(s) that reflect the content size and users point of regard in a viewport (1.8.4, 1.8.11), and restoring the the focus and point of regard when the user returns to a previously view
ed page. Additionally, the user can specify that all view ports have the same user interface elements (1.8.10), if and how new viewports open (1.8.6), and whether the new window automatically gets focus (1.8.7). The user can close any open window or tab (1.8.9).
<Greg> This is for Guideline 1.8 - Help users to use viewports and orient within viewports.
The user agent provides programmatic and visual cues to keep the user oriented. These include highlighting the viewport (1.8.1), keeping the focus within the viewport (1.8.2), resizing the viewport (1.8.3), providing scrollbar(s) that reflect the content size and users point of regard in a viewport (1.8.4, 1.8.11), and restoring the the focus and point of regard when the user returns to a...
scribe: previously viewed page (1.8.5). Additionally, the user can specify that all view ports have the same user interface elements (1.8.10), if and how new viewports open (1.8.6), and whether the new window automatically gets focus (1.8.7). The user can close any open window or tab (1.8.9).
<Greg> I don't see anything programmatic in any of the SC in 1.8.
The user agent provides cues to keep the user oriented. These include highlighting the viewport (1.8.1), keeping the focus within the viewport (1.8.2), resizing the viewport (1.8.3), providing scrollbar(s) that reflect the content size and users point of regard in a viewport (1.8.4, 1.8.11), and restoring the the focus and point of regard when the user returns to a...
scribe: previously viewed page (1.8.5). Additionally, the user can specify that all view ports have the same user interface elements (1.8.10), if and how new viewports open (1.8.6), and whether the new window automatically gets focus (1.8.7). The user can close any open window or tab (1.8.9).
<Greg> Programmatic is covered in Guideline 4.1 - Facilitate programmatic access to assistive technology
<Greg> Something like "providing scrollbar(s) that identify when content is outside the visible region (1.8.4) and which portion is visible (1.8.11)"
<KimPatch> stepping away for a minute
The user agent provides programmatic and visual cues to keep the user oriented. These include highlighting the viewport (1.8.1), keeping the focus within the viewport (1.8.2), resizing the viewport (1.8.3), providing scrollbar(s) that identify when content is outside the visible region (1.8.4) and which portion is visible (1.8.11), and restoring the the focus and point of regard when the...
scribe: user returns to
a...
... previously viewed page (1.8.5). Additionally, the user can
specify that all view ports have the same user interface
elements (1.8.10), if and how new viewports open (1.8.6), and
whether the new window automatically gets focus (1.8.7). The
user can close any open window or tab (1.8.9).
<Greg> Maybe "The user can also close any open window or tab (1.8.9)."
The user agent provides programmatic and visual cues to keep the user oriented. These include highlighting the viewport (1.8.1), keeping the focus within the viewport (1.8.2), resizing the viewport (1.8.3), providing scrollbar(s) that identify when content is outside the visible region (1.8.4) and which portion is visible (1.8.11), and restoring the the focus and point of regard when the...
scribe: user returns to
a...
... previously viewed page (1.8.5). Additionally, the user can
specify that all view ports have the same user interface
elements (1.8.10), if and how new viewports open (1.8.6), and
whether the new window automatically gets focus (1.8.7). The
user can also close any open window or tab (1.8.9).
The user can view the source of content (1.10.1), or an "outline" view (1.10.2), and may specify the elements to be used for the outline view (1.10.3).
<Greg> For Guideline 1.10 - Provide alternative views
topic summary 1.11 Guideline 1.11 - Provide element information.
The user agent provides information about content relationships (e.g. form labels, table headers)(1.11.1), and extended link information (e.g. title, internal vs. external) (1.11.2)
<Greg> If we change "provides information" to "presents information" it would be clearer that it's about presenting to the user instead of providing programmatically.
The user agent presents information about content relationships (e.g. form labels, table headers)(1.11.1), and extended link information (e.g. title, internal vs. external) (1.11.2)
<sharper> Intent of Success Criterion 2.5.7 :
<sharper> Often the user agent will choose by default the elements it considers important for structured navigation, however these may not be relevant in all circumstances. It may be that the user wishes to navigate via informal mechanisms such as microformats, decentralised extended elements, or via a particular styling which is used to convey a structure in the visual navigation, but which does not exist in the element hierarchy.
<sharper> Examples of Success Criterion 2.5.7 :
<sharper> Fred is blind and wishes to navigate through the menu structure using the Tab key, however the menu is a set of nested list elements with a particular HTML class attribute denoting the menu-submenu relationship. Because Fred's user agent allows him to configure important elements he can explicitly include the class name as an important element for navigation.
<sharper> Jane uses a mobile device (and is often situationally impaired) and often encounters tables laid out using floating DIV elements with specific class names denoting the visual styling. In this case Jane cannot use the cursor keys to move around these tabular layouts having instead to use the tab key to move sequentially left-to-right top-to-bottom. Jane's browser does not provide the facility for the configuration of important elements and so she can not pick
<sharper> the classes associated with these DIV element, and therefore cannot use the cursor key used to move logically through columns or rows.
<sharper> Related Resources for Success Criterion 2.5.7 :
<sharper> None
<sharper> Jane's browser allows her to configure important elements and so she can pick out the classes associated with these DIV element, and therefore use the cursor key to move logically through columns or rows.
<Greg> I'd like to add something specific to the Fred example, but what would it be? That is, how would it work in practice? "He then assigns a keyboard shortcut to navigate to the next element with the same class name as the element that has the focus"?
<Greg> I also note that this example goes beyond what is actually required by the SC (which is not necessarily bad, but it may mean the SC needs to be broadened if we want to include this functionality. Specifically, the example is about using attributes to select "important elements", but the SC only discusses elements types (e.g. h1, li, img).
jeanne: we have made examples go beyond the SC. and have language in the document about this so folks are encouraged to do more
sh: reviews 2.5.3, and it talks about underlying semantics, also 2.5.1, 2. 3.
<Greg> How about adding: "Rachel uses a command to navigate to the nearest parent header above the current focus location. However, she's using a document that uses a class other than h2, so she adds this class to the browser's definition of what it treats as a header."
last sentence for fred: He then assigns a keyboard shortcut to navigate to the next element with the same class name as the element that has the focus
<sharper> Fred is blind and wishes to navigate through the menu structure using the Tab key, however the menu is a set of nested list elements with a particular HTML class attribute denoting the menu-submenu relationship. Because Fred's user agent allows him to configure important elements he can explicitly include the class name as an important element for navigation. He then assigns a keyboard shortcut to navigate to the next element with the same class name as the
<sharper> element that has the focus.
<Greg> "Rachel uses a command to navigate to the nearest parent header above the current focus location. However, she's using a document that uses a P with a specific class rather than h2, so she adds this class to the browser's definition of what it treats as a header."
<sharper> Intent of Success Criterion 1.10.3:
<sharper> Sometimes authors will visually convey relationships between elements by spatially grouping them, by giving them the same coloration or background, and so forth. Users may not be able to perceive those attributes, such as when using a screen reader, or when strong magnification makes it difficult to make a mental model of the screen layout. In those cases the user agent can assist by providing a view of the data that groups elements that that user agent
<sharper> perceives as implying relationships.
<sharper> Examples of Success Criterion 1.10.3:
<sharper> Jane uses a mobile device (and is often situationally impaired) and often encounters tables laid out using floating DIV elements with specific class names denoting the visual styling. In this case Jane cannot use the cursor keys to move around these tabular layouts having instead to use the tab key to move sequentially left-to-right top-to-bottom. Jane's browser allows her to configure important elements and so she can pick out the classes associated with thes
<sharper> element, and therefore use the cursor key to move logically through columns or rows.
<Greg> Jan notes this is looks like the wrong intent paragraph.
<Greg> a///
JR: perhaps the intent would go in 1.2.3
kf: need to consolidate 1.10.3 and 2.5.7
<Greg> Discussion of whether we should have two separate SC for configuring elements for structural navigation vs. structural views.
kf: AT provides structural navigation (and Opera)
<Greg> Greg notes that few browsers support structural navigation commands, but Kelly notes that assistive technology supports it.
JA: suggest merging
issue: make a resolution for 1.10.3 and 2.5.7 (merge/separate).
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-88 - Make a resolution for 1.10.3 and 2.5.7 (merge/separate). ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/88/edit .
<KimPatch> 4.2.2 (former 1.9.6, before that 3.11.6) Retrieve Focus [moved, unchanged]
<KimPatch> At any time, the user is able to retrieve input focus from a nested viewport (including a nested viewport that is a user agent). (Level A)
<KimPatch> Intent of Success Criterion 4.2.2 (former 1.9.6, before that 3.11.6):
<KimPatch> Historically keyboard users have had difficulty with nested user agents trapping keyboard focus, preventing the user from activating host browser commands including navigation and menus.
<KimPatch> Examples of Success Criterion 4.2.2 (former 1.9.6, before that 3.11.6):
<KimPatch> Ari is using a video hosting site where each page hosts a nested media player. He presses Tab until the focus in on the media player, then presses Enter to activate and put the keyboard focus on it. When he’s finished watching the video, he presses Tab to navigate to the comments below the video, but cannot get the focus to leave the video player. He presses Alt+Left to return to the...
<KimPatch> ...previous page, but that also fails because the video player is consuming those keystrokes. Luckily, Ari knows that Shift+Esc will return focus from a nested user agent, with or without its cooperation. Thus, even a badly behaved nested user agent cannot prevent Ari from getting on with his work.
<Greg> The SC previously had mixed singular and plural, so we fixed that.
<Greg> The current draft guidelines include the wrong text for 4.2.2 (a copy of the text from 4.2.1); this text is the version we'd submitted via the wiki, corrected for singular/plural.
<sharper> +1
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/is // Found Scribe: allanj Found Scribe: jallan Inferring ScribeNick: JAllan Scribes: allanj, jallan WARNING: Replacing list of attendees. Old list: +1.425.883.aaaa New list: Greg Jeanne Jan1 +1.425.381.aaaa Kim Kelly Jim_Allan sharper +1.425.883.aabb Default Present: Greg, Jeanne, Jan1, +1.425.381.aaaa, Kim, Kelly, Jim_Allan, sharper, +1.425.883.aabb Present: Greg Jeanne Jan Kim Kelly Simon Jim Found Date: 18 Aug 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-ua-minutes.html People with action items: jeanne kford[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]