See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 15 June 2011
<scribe> Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
<scribe> Scribe: Janina_Sajka
<scribe> agenda: this
trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 15 June 2011
We need bugs filed on browsers ...
Janina also discussed with ARIA meeting this week where the question of UI behavior was raised.
Also, there were several ARIA issues logged to track progress on this.
<jfoliot> the describedby spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/states_and_properties#aria-describedby
<silvia> aria-label or aria-describedby is not sufficiently specified in the WAI-ARIA spec to include or exclude markup
JB: Concerned whether ARIA implementations are exposing CR problems.
ec: Defs are ambiguous so that's why we have different behavior in different browsers.
jf: I sfiling bugs against browsers premature?
ec: Unless we can point to where it says: "Behave as follows."
JS: ARIA wants to think this through end to end, especially the user experience with UI before moving to clarify specs
jb: Suggesting Geoff, Jim Allen, Kelly Ford, and Jean Spellman.
jf: Also suggesting Markku
sp: It's really the user experience, not the user agent.
... I will prepare quick issue summary to help bring our conversation invitees up to speed on this question.
... JS will invite the above.
sp: Not much by way of solutions,
but attempts to describe the problem.
... Needs to take potential solutions to the list
... Would appreciate feedback, including use case, etc., to make sure it's all ok
... Prefers we do this correctly, rather than to a deadline
... Would like to avoid a poor spec just to make the deadline
jf: Concerned that chapters is a webvtt construct, yet some content will be ttml based
sp: chapters are a track construct, not webvtt
ec: agree with Silvia, see two
aspects to this
... How to express the hierarchy in some context format -- not our issue here
... How to reflect that struct in html, and this is our problem
jf: Seems the struct is simple, is it that difficult to express to UA?
<silvia> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/TextFormat_Mapping_to_Requirements#cn1 <- example of markup in TTML
ec: We have no say in how content
specifies the hierarchy.
... Once we're given that, whatever it is, we need to be able to express that through the track mechanism.
jf: You're unsure of how to express this in the API?
jf: Having trouble grocking that
sp: Think of it as the ml is in
an external file, or perhaps the video file, when it comes into
the browser there's nothing in the DOM from thiis ml, it only
goes to shadow dom
... So not as simple as adding a list into dom
... we need to find a way around that
jf: but why not?
sp: security, other concerns, of
introducing additional struct into an existing page
... I'm also on shaky ground here, unsure of how to solve this
jf: So we're already adding into the dom via track ...
<silvia> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/the-iframe-element.html#texttrackcue <- this is all we have available in the browser about the cues
ec: ua knows what's were, and can wire it all up ok, but that's not enough. the problem is exposing it all to js
sp: maybe we just haven't thought this through enough, maybe it is solvable
sp: it may be that nothing is missing
jb: how can we keep on schedule while we sort this out? uncomfortable with the notion that the deadline isn't a problem.
jf: find it hard to believe that
a sophisticated js can't consume something as old and basic as
<h> nested header concept
... would rather make the deadline with something proposed, just to keep this moving for this spec, rather than missing a rev
jb: so how do we find out for sure that we have all the pieces?
jf: asking whether increasing our mtgs will help?
sp: don't think it's a question of telecons or conversation
jb: Silvia, do you have a sense of what time is needed?
sp: I can do it by next week, but it's not just up to me. I need responses on list and on wiki. I can't do it alone.
js: Wonders whether we've complicated our problem by trying to avoid creating any new file format, or additional piece to create and manage hierarchical nav.
ec: No, not because our problem will be the same regardless of what provides us the data for where nav needs to take the user
ec: Suggest we're overloading the
... If time flow stops because text/TTS exceeds video time, that's not pause that's a different kind of pause and we need another term
js: the TTS caused behaviior is a different pause
<silvia> it's called "paused for user interaction"
ec: already is to the ua
jf: it needs to resync itself?
... spec already has 'pause for user interaction'
jf: a problem of understanding?
... Thankfully, this is something we don't need to solve for html, it's for the a11y apis
We're missing people for this.
jf: Can we take this conversation off this meeting? Don't believe it needs to be here.
jb: Yes, if people are agreeable
re action-109 on sean re queues that come out of order -- goes back to March
jf: I'll email him.
... also an action on me re a bug not sure what it is
... js can close actions 126 127
<trackbot> ACTION-128 -- Silvia Pfeiffer to follow-up on @transcript attribute -- due 2011-06-01 -- OPEN
<trackbot> ACTION-126 Take the user reqs and tech reqs and get that published under PF closed
<trackbot> ACTION-127 Work with authors of HTML alt techniques document and HTML a11y user agent implementation guide to add the aria-describedby video example there closed
jf: action-128 on sp -- refreshed. have updated our wiki.
<silvia> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Alt_Technologies <- I updated this
<trackbot> ACTION-130 Should file bugs on this closed
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: janina Found Scribe: Janina_Sajka Default Present: Judy, Janina, frankolivier, John_Foliot, Eric_Carlson, +61.2.801.2.aacc, silvia Present: Judy Janina frankolivier John_Foliot Eric_Carlson +61.2.801.2.aacc silvia Found Date: 15 Jun 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/06/15-html-a11y-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]