CSS-SVG Task Force Teleconference

02 May 2011


See also: IRC log


Shepazu, hober, ed, +1.206.675.aaaa, anthony, rik, [Microsoft], +1.650.253.aabb, TabAtkins
smfr, chris


<trackbot> Date: 02 May 2011

<scribe> ScribeNick: hober

Filter Effects 1.0

shepazu: if someone defines a filter effect, but it doesn't exist or isn't supported, what should happen?

<ed> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/tip/filters/publish/Filters.html#FilterFunction

cabanier: if they don't exist they should be ignored

ed: we apply the null filter in this case
... which makes elements transparent
... firefox, opera, webkit all make the element invisible

shepazu: this is very unintuitive
... will follow up in email

ed: it would be nice if the element remained visible

shepazu: what if you have a set of filters
... you support a b and c, and don't support d
... in a filter chain a b d c, what is the input into filter c
... expects d to simply pass through the ouptput of b to c

ed: in the svg case, you can have sub-parts that aren't supported; what should happen in such cases is hard
... pass-through sounds fine to me

shepazu: also need to address this to clip paths
... if there's nothing to apply, nothing should happen

<ed> feImage in firefox might be an example, supports raster images but not referencing other svg elements IIRC

shepazu: does anyone have rationale to this behavior besides it's already how implementations behave?
... I tried to apply some filter effects to a video
... regardless of if it applies the effect I still want the video to be visible
... we should nip this in the bud now
... people won't use filters because of the very negative effect

'enable-background' deprecation

cabanier: having access to the background is more about blending, should go in possible future blending spec

<TabAtkins> ...dammit, I meant to be in the call. One sec.

cabanier: if we allow enable-background in filters, we then have more than one way of expressing the same thing

ed: describes example of wanting to blur a background while applying a fitler; background may be unusually large

shepazu: filter within a filter with enable-background gets complicated really quickly
... we need to keep the filter spec simple

ed: we still have to deal with backwards compat; there are some impls that do some of this
... but there isn't much content on the open web that contains this

pdengler: which implementations support this?

ed: batik, opera, both support some of it
... adobe plugin had support for it

pdengler: would you deprecate it in opera?

ed: enable-background is still used in the compositing spec

shepazu: are you doing filters in IE? what happens now in IE9?

pdengler: IE9 ignores it

[questions about svg v. css compositing spec work]

TabAtkins: is identical to what's being specced in svg

pdengler: we're not changing svg filter spec

shepazu: svg filter spec is becoming *a* filter spec

pdengler: the importance is that we have a consistent model now, so that 2 or 5 years from now authors have consistent experience

ed: there are some tests, but not many

pdengler: if someone were to support enable-background when blending, would they break the future?

ed: blending in terms of compositing or svg filters?
... don't know if you can get the same behavior between enable-background in compositing v. svg filters

pdengler: there wouldn't be a collision

cabanier: in a css compositing spec, should enable-background even be there
... if you have an animation, it's hard to implement that performantly

ed: can we refer to the compositing spec for the definition of enable-background?
... background-image and background-alpha are the only things using enable-background property
... removing, we'd have to do something for existing content, not sure what

<scribe> ACTION: ed to create test cases for background-image and background-alpha to see what current implementations do [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/02-fx-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-31 - Create test cases for background-image and background-alpha to see what current implementations do [on Erik Dahlström - due 2011-05-09].

transform atribute vs. property

ed: cameron isn't here

CSS/SVG Animation, FX 2d Transforms updates

anthony: next week i plan to make the fx 2d transforms updates

pdengler: question about integrating transform attribute v. property

shepazu: we've gone back and forth on that
... from an authoring point of view, keeping them separate is desirable

ed: cameron was objecting to it
... haven't seen a proposal that addresses all of the issues with making it a property; the dom issues, etc.
... might make it harder to promote other attributes to properties for animating with css animations
... we should see if there are more detailed comments from cameron on that
... we would have to change the fx transforms spec to reflect that
... any updates on the animation work in the css group?

TabAtkins: nothing's changed
... dean's been working on a better js api for animations

ed: that's not been checked in anywhere

TabAtkins: dean will move that along once he's fleshed out his experimental impl

pdengler: will there be an fx meeting in kyoto?

[discussion of when the overlap day will be in kyoto]

ed: we should know svg meeting dates by thursday
... the intention is to cover fx material in overlap mtg; not sure how many people doing the fx work will be there

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: ed to create test cases for background-image and background-alpha to see what current implementations do [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/02-fx-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

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Found ScribeNick: hober
Inferring Scribes: hober
Default Present: Shepazu, hober, ed, +1.206.675.aaaa, anthony, rik, [Microsoft], +1.650.253.aabb, TabAtkins
Present: Shepazu hober ed +1.206.675.aaaa anthony rik [Microsoft] +1.650.253.aabb TabAtkins
Regrets: smfr chris
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2011AprJun/0059.html
Found Date: 02 May 2011
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/05/02-fx-minutes.html
People with action items: ed

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