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<scribe> agenda: this
<scribe> scribe: janina
Judy: Do we have all proposals sufficiently elaborated and we're now focussing on #4 because we still prefer it? Or just because it's the only one sufficiently elaborated?
<silvia> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Multitrack_Change_Proposals_Summary
Silvia: OK, Let me summarize
...
... We do have a summary page. Creating it required a more in
depth look at Ian's proposal.
... I put my concerns in a section called '"Silvia's
Notes"
... So, I'm asking what our opinions are
JF: I'm noting you mention some attributes are missing, i.e. seeking. Can you say more?
Silvia: Yes, jumping to a specific time, either via user control or via js
Eric: The attribute relates to
whether a seek is in progress, and don't think it's
particularly helpful\
... We can certainly seek via the controller
Silvia: We have had additional
discussion since Monday, including responses from Ian. There
are other attribs I'm no longer looking for
... These are details on this proposal.
... If we decide to go with this proposal, we want to make sure
the details are consistent with what we want.
Frank: Think this is a good way to proceed. I have some concerns about complexity, though.
JF: Any deal breaks so far?
Frank: With #4?
Sean: A few issues around exclusive, but mostly OK
Frank: Yes, I think it maps well to what we have. We need small bug fixes, not major rewrites.
Silvia: May I propose a way
forward?
... If we're all happy--Frank, Eric, Sean, myself--can we pull
our proposals and work on fixing #4?
Frank: Yes. My proposal was around exposing audio tracks. #4 does that.
Silvia: Yes, it incorporates yours.
Sean: I'm also prepared to withdraw mine. I believe I can achieve what I need with #4
Eric: I also agree. Though, I think we need to make it clear that there's more work to do to make #4 sufficient.
JF: I've not seen feedback from Opera. Anyone know how Phillip is with this?
Eric: My impression is generally supportive, based on list mail.
JF: Other question is that we continue to indicate status on this. Can we report that we are coalescing around #4, though it needs additional work?
Eric: I think it makes sense for the authors of the other proposals to send email saying that.
Judy: I don't think it hurts to
communicate additionally.
... We should also make sure to check with other key
people.
Silvia: Think we should summarize the sticky points in an email to the list. Don't think we need to withdraw our proposals just yet.
<silvia> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_TextTrack_Issues
JF: Sean, anything to discuss?
Sean: Most of my issues ongoing
in email ...
... It all seems to be coming together
Eric: I'd like us to discuss audio/video/text tracks issue
<frankolivier> Sound is dropping out for me on the phone; Anybody else having this issue?
Eric: I probably don't have the
terms off the top of my head right now ... inband, exclusive,
etc
... Some have proposed a single "tracks" attrib
Sean: Understand you can have one
video in the track, but doesn't prevent you from other videos,
you need to use multiple video elements to get at them
... My preference would be for a single API to find them,
identify them, and switch them on and off
... That was our TPAC approach, and I think it was
simpler.
... Currently, it's all there, but too complex
Eric: Agree
... Don't think exclusive on video makes sense
... Agree that's it's useful to have a single way to identify
everything
Frank: How does this concept work?
Eric: Like on the element restricted to text tracks, but able to enumerate all video and audio
Frank: Is that a big change?
Eric: Yes, it would cut down from 3 to 1 the attribs on media element
JF: How do we move that forward?
Eric: We need to discuss it further in email. Either we convince everyone else--or not. But, if we agree, and it's not in the spec, then we need a change proposal on this.
JF: Is there a bug filed on this?
Eric: No, but don't think it makes sense to file a bug at this point.
JF: My concern is timing
Judy: I think you're asking about
process specifically with respect to multitrack?
... I think a number of people consider this critical for last
call
... All I can say is keep refining the proposal, and on
expedited work on this, and let's not focus on process
particularly
JF: So, we cut from 3 to 1, but add one other?
Eric: Yes
... Though we seem to agree we can live with what's there now,
though we prefer the change we're proposing
Sean: Understand what we have is sufficient on this to take us through the April 22 deadline. If we go further, we do it as a CP
Eric: Yes, it's a polishing thing
Judy: Now I'm confused ....
... Might we not end up with something we're unhappy
with?
... In other words, why not offer it ahead of April 22
Eric: It's perhaps not worth falling on our sword
<judy> s/something that we're unhappy with/something that would break a bit when it's cleaned up in the next LCWD/
Eric: I think we should push on this, but we're OK either way
Judy: If not accepted early, wouldn't it break implementations if tried later?
Eric: Yes
Judy: So it's worthwhile to work hard on getting an optimal proposal now
Eric: Yes, which is why we need to take this discussion back on list
JF: Not on our agenda, but we
have Silvia's wiki page on text format and multiple format
...
... I was expecting this is a non issue? That we would see
support for multiple formats in browsers? Yes, no?
Eric: Are you asking if we need to define a single (or multiple) format?
JF: I got the impression we don't
need to specify a file format in track?
... I'm unclear where the discussion is on this, this
Sean: The issue is whether or not
track elements supports src as a sub, so you cannot put src
inside it.
... So future compatibility, etc., I believe we need to allow a
source selection algorithm
... We did agree to take this up outside of Issue-152
JF: So should we be taking this up? Or ddo we finish 152 first?
Sean: We should finish 152, but I don't see anyone disagreeing on multiple formats
JF: So is it OK as an LC
issue?
... So we can still submit a CP ...
Sean: I'd like to see that
JF: I would as well. Anyone disagree?
Eric: I agree with it
Frank: I also
<silvia> I also
Bob: Also I
<silvia> captured in http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_TextTrack_Issues for now
JF: Anyone willing to take this up?
Sean: Silvia would be the logical person. If not she, I'll do it.
<JF> Silvia, would you be prepared to take that wiki page and advance it to the mailing list as a CP for the spec?
<JF> we seem to have un animity on the proposal on this call
<silvia> Can it wait until we've got issue-152 out the door, so after 22nd or do we want to start this before?
<silvia> in any case, we can put a bug in the tracker
<JF> I think we would like to have this in the last call document, so likely before the 22nd
Judy: Is this a clarification of an existing issue or proposal? I'm concerned this not be seen as something new, if it is indeed a clarificationon an existing issue or proposal
Sean: My understanding is that
this part of an old bug of ours that fell out
... So it's a corollary of our actions on this
<silvia> do we want to attack all the changes on the wiki page together or just the multiple formats issue on <track> elements?
Judy: Mainly concerned how this is going to be presented. I'm now understanding we've worked on this before
<Sean_> just the multiple formats issue. And to state that this is part of making the spec format neutral
Judy: Ian almost got it into his proposal? Something like that?
<silvia> Sean: so in your eyes this is a stumbling block on accepting the Controller as a solution for issue-152?
JF: This was when we were
discussing SRT (WebVTT); and TTML, etc
... Our guidance was support them all
<Sean_> No this is unrelated to 152
<JF> Silvia, we are trying to figure out how to ensure we get this: "The proposal is therefore to implement the same mechanism for <track> elements as we have for <audio> and <video> elements: namely to use the <source> element for format selection. "
Janina: The process point is that this is what we came to a decision on back when we were discussing WebSRT (now VTT) vs TTML, etc. It's not new, but the spec isn't saying how to get it right
<silvia> hmm, so do we have another bug that we could attach this so it is a pre-LC? I think it may be hard to still push this in before the deadline...
<Sean_> [Bug 11207] Make track element additions technology neutral
<Sean_> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11207
Sean: When we took out the specific references to WebSRT, nothing replaced that text to include the ability to do this.
Judy: Thus, the bug isn't actually fixed
<judy> Judy: when the srt references were taken out at our request, it left a gap on ability to express multiple format; therefore a bug that is marked as "resolved fixed" no longer is. we offer the following correction to that gap.
But, that would mean post last call
<silvia> so for the record: I'd be happy to just have it added as a bug right now and start discussions on list - I think we may be able to resolve it in this way, too
<silvia> yes, it would mean post LC, but it may just get support from everyone because it stops prefetching
<silvia> ups :)
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/$/#/ Succeeded: s/proposal/proposal, and on expedited work on this/ FAILED: s/something that we're unhappy with/something that would break a bit when it's cleaned up in the next LCWD/ Succeeded: s/something new/something new, if it is indeed a clarificationon an existing issue or proposal/ Succeeded: s/into the spec/into his proposal/ Found Scribe: janina Inferring ScribeNick: janina Default Present: janina, +1.650.862.aaaa, +44.154.558.aabb, Judy, +1.510.367.aacc, Eric, John_Foliot, silvia, Frank, Bob Present: janina +1.650.862.aaaa +44.154.558.aabb Judy +1.510.367.aacc Eric John_Foliot silvia Frank Bob Got date from IRC log name: 13 Apr 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/04/13-media-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]