11 Apr 2011

See also: IRC log


Eric_Carlson, silvia, +44.154.558.aaaa, mark, Sean, Bob, janina, Frank, Judy


People, I'm trying to get some W3C help about our telecon channel

All, I'm trying to get our telecon channel unblocked

<eric_carlson> what is the pass code for the Zakim bridge?

<eric_carlson> never mind, I am in now

I'm working on getting Zakim to let me in

Issue-152 Multitrack http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Multitrack_Change_Proposals_Summary

<scribe> scribe: janina

Silvia: Believes Ian's proposal is best for moving forward; superior to proposals 2 & 3
... Makes all media elements
... Proposes to walk through the proposal
... Beginning look at Proposal #4 ...

Bob, Question about exclusive track list, will that change?

Silvia: Exclusive and multiple track list come in as attribs
... Ian seems to believe we can only have one video at a time, therefore exclusive

Bob: So how to do a mosaic of multiple videos

Silvia: So, you use separate video elements on the page and style through CSS, create a controller to get them to act together
... Or, if they're all inband tracks, then you need IDs on each track and ref using media fragment URI

Eric: It would work, but it makes it difficult to have generic scripts for unknown content

Mark: If you create one, then the others are exposed and you can go forward

Eric: For Apple, this would be a step backwards because we already support multiple tracks; would be a step back for us

Silvia: So how does it now work?

Eric: You display however it was authored
... QT has layers and each track is on video matrix that controls where it displays

Silvia: So, if it's set up one way, PIP, for instance, how to display differently

Eric: Either in script by disaling all video not to be displayed; then using as source

Silvia: So we need to change from exclusive to multiple where we have default rendering, but could be changed as desired

Eric: Think that's right
... Don't see the exclusivity as helpful

Silvia: Think he's thinking about slides with someone addressing a meeting, but I agree I'd rather leave to a browser
... It would be nice to share a video that can render multiple video
... Suggest tracklist be replaced as multiple, not exclusive
... Not sure how some browsers will react, Opera ...

Eric: WebM can only have a single video file
... Wonders Frank's opinion?

Frank: We don't yet support multiple tracks
... We support that it's up to the UA to do this

Eric: More than one video track in a single file is highly uncommon, but we shouldn't have it as a restriction in the spec

Mark: In future, if pointing to a manifest, it will be more common; Should not require to download two videos when only one is to be displayed

janina: We do have the user reqs which specify sign language video track
... Suggesting we check against user reqs when we think we have the engineering we like, just be be sure we got everything

Silvia: I plan to do code examples

Eric: No reason to restrict audio tracks

Sean: Agrees

Silvia: Our proposal always added kind label language and name ...
... Should we extend Ian's to also have gets for all four of these?
... Label is also important for creating menus

Mark: Agree with both

Eric: Also

Silvia: Do we have use cases where we want looping?

Eric: Absolutely, the same as looping on an individual file
... Suggest reset time to 0 when rendering reaches $DURATION

Silvia: Good question, is it enough the group has loop state? Or each individual track?

Sean: Feel like we're badly reinventing SMIL

Silvia: SMIL does much more, though

Sean: Not suggesting we adopt all of SMIL; simply saying SMIL has support for everything we're discussing

Silvia: Think it would be difficult, but maybe worthy of the exercise?

Sean: Best we make sure we don't do something incompatible with that model

Silvia: Won't be used in the same context as SMIL, so why does it need to be compatible?

Judy: We are hearing from multiple directions that alignment would be useful

<sean> ACTION: Sean Explore reusing SMIL semantics for repeat [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/11-media-minutes.html#action01]

Silvia: Exploring metadata events ....

Sean: I'm think about this a bit differently, splitting controller away from network parts
... That way controller need not be explicitly created, as there's always one by default

Silvia: Is that basically just an IDL change?

Sean: Yes.
... But the network states are separate

Eric: Would you leave the existing interfaces?

Sean: It's just rearranging them, it's just more tidy

Eric: I find this interesting, but hesitate very much to remove anything we already have for compatability concerns

Sean: You just say they map to the controller
... My problem, as currently we have things, is that the controller need always be explicitly created
... I'd rather it were implicit

Eric: Actually, if you have elements in the same group, it is already implicit

Sean: I don't like that it doesn't do that if it's not in a group

Eric: Yes, that's an interesting approach
... One issue listed in Wiki we haven't yet discussed is default controls, think it's important to have UA default controls

Frank: So, how would that work? A controller element positioned on the page?

Sean: yes, perhaps a shadow DOM construct
... So, it might be something we could apply styling to
... And would be available by default

janina: Asks if anyone is opposed?

Eric: Not sure, but am conflicted

Sean: So this is a thought expiriment -- there's the shadow DOM, but no representation

Eric: Yes, a firewall between the shadow and the parent, so that js can't get to them

Frank: We would have the same limitation in IE

Eric: I haven't yet thought of a way to make it work

Frank: Question about proposal 4
... How to get track list count --- Ah, I see it now!
... So, media controller maps to some amount of UI elements in background
... Is there a simple mapping here? A union of all the elements in the group?

Eric: I'd say a union
... I personally believe we should expect all samples to be played to be loaded first

Mark: Do we have a definitive list of track kinds that we want proposed for getkind?

Sean: Think it's still open ended

Mark: suggest we would want to close that at some point--a basic set?

Sean: Yes, but extensible

Frank: Audio, video and text?

Mark: Thought it would tell you "texted video description," "sign language translation," etc

Frank: What's the current thinking of displaying multiple text tracks simoultaneously

Sean: We're not restricted on audio, so why on text?

Frank: Yes, but not currently a spec req

Sean: So, at minimum, text for each audio track

general discussion of displaying multiple text tracks? spec reqs?

Frank: There are three states, off, (no events and nothing displayed); showing (js generated and siaplayed); hidden (nothing displayed, but events fired)

Eric: And if off, data not loaded

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Sean Explore reusing SMIL semantics for repeat [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/11-media-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2011/04/11 22:46:21 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: janina
Inferring ScribeNick: janina
Default Present: Eric_Carlson, silvia, +44.154.558.aaaa, mark, Sean, Bob, janina, Frank, Judy
Present: Eric_Carlson silvia +44.154.558.aaaa mark Sean Bob janina Frank Judy

WARNING: No meeting title found!
You should specify the meeting title like this:
<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Got date from IRC log name: 11 Apr 2011
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/04/11-media-minutes.html
People with action items: sean

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]