See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 30 March 2011
<dmccreary> greetings everyone
<dmccreary> we still have snow n the ground in Minneapolis
<klotz> ebruchez are you calling in or IRC only today?
<klotz> scribe: ebruchez
<klotz> scribenick: ebruchez
<klotz> *topic Request-Response IDs [was Submission Retries]
<klotz> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Submission_Request-Response_IDs
(Leigh describing use cases on wiki.)
Leigh: Would be good if ppl could review that proposal.
Leigh: We got some more comments on this on the list.
Dan: Raja Mani is heading an XForms project in India.
<alain> Hello, I'll just be on IRC for the next 15 minutes
Erik: Was reviewing Joern's reply. Agree that spec shouldn't constrain too much. Also wondering if we do need something in this delay.
<klotz> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2011Mar/0035.html
<scribe> ACTION: Leigh to respond to thread on incremental delays http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2011Mar/0035.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-forms-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1787 - Respond to thread on incremental delays http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2011Mar/0035.html [on Leigh Klotz, Jr. - due 2011-04-06].
<dmccreary> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Annotations
Dan: What I put on the wiki:
quick definitions, it's a standard in itself and can be
complicated. People using this already so we should think about
to standardize this.
... TEI is Text Encoding Initiative. Annotations you can add
e.g. for historical docs. Work I did for State Dept was to use
this to facilitate search in history of diplomacy.
<klotz> Easy demo: http://demo.danmccreary.com/rest/db/dma/apps/tei-annotator/unit-tests/05-tei-load-test.xq
Dan: Annotations to textarea, e.g. Orbeon uses mediatype="text/html". What we did was to extend to specify an XML Schema describing annotations and automatically configure editor based on schema.
<dmccreary> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/Annotation_Use_Case_Simple_Content_Wrap
Dan: Simple use case: blog publishing, needs just bold, italics, etc.. Allows this kind of configuration.
<klotz> http://sourceforge.net/projects/teiann/
Dan: More complex use case: e.g. State Dept has list of names, can do highlighting of those by calling service.
<dmccreary> http://demo.danmccreary.com/rest/db/dma/apps/tei-annotator/index.xq
Leigh: (...)
<dmccreary> http://demo.danmccreary.com/rest/db/dma/apps/tei-annotator/unit-tests/05-tei-toolbar-test.xq
Dan: I have some examples online
(caveat: might not work w/ IE).
... Goal is to show what we have done, get discussion started,
hope is to have some kind of standardization.
Leigh: Do you have examples of schema for textarea?
Dan: In this case I used some element names following what they do in Fed projects. If we standardize would need to be changed. Would like to see how this would work w/ XForms. And whether this should be handled in the XForms community of as something separate.
Leigh: Would be good if you could
show what you already have. (...) If W3C was to start work on
this, that will not be before a couple of years.
... W3C has "Submissions", which are from members, and rather
informal.
... That could be a first official step. You can start with the
wiki.
<dmccreary> I will work on creating a "submission"
<dmccreary> XForms was mentioned in at least three presentations - growing in popularity
<dmccreary> proceedings here: http://www.xmlprague.cz/2011/files/xmlprague-2011-proceedings.pdf
Alain: XForms was mentioned a lot
this year, in 3 presentations. On JSON, some questions on this,
Marklogic has a proposal, with differences re. escaping, and
they have a query language.
... MarkLogic had demo jam where I demoed some XForms, with
uploading and a simple XML editor.
<dmccreary> Alain did a demonstration of autogeneration of XForms apps from instance documents
<dmccreary> Thomas White did a demonstration of "nanoforms"
Alain: betterFORM people demonstrated large form capabilities. Something called nanoforms. There were more demos involving XForms.
<dmccreary> This was a very light-weight approach to editing a small fragment of a web page
Alain: Mike Kay's client-side
XSLT. Ppl working on building apps w/ XSLT or XQuery on the
client.
... No JavaScript required.
... Got inquiries into XForms and XSLTForms.
... Michael Sperberg-McQueen will give a class in California in
June on XForms.
Kurt: Follow-up on this. I looked at Saxon CE. Closer from XBL than anything else. Worth spending time looking at this.
<klotz> Saxon-CE: http://www.biglist.com/lists/lists.mulberrytech.com/xsl-list/archives/201103/msg00150.html
Erik: You are saying there are some binding capabilities w/ it?
Kurt: Yes. You can create a
template/@match and set a mode to an event. I can say "here is
an input control".
... Can react to e.g. key events in the interface.
... Significant potential.
Erik: XBL 2 also has a template language. It is poor. Using XSLT is much more powerful. What's missing to this for a full component solution is encapsulation. It's a major feature to allow reuse.
Kurt: I agree, encapsulation is a
key thing.
... I am still exploring this.
... Events can bridge to JavaScript too. Not sure if this is
fully implemented yet. It's preliminary.
... I think it's a very impressive piece.
... Downside to this is initial download.
... But unavoidable for that kind of JavaScript
implementation.
<scribe> ACTION: Kurt to summarize the client-side XSLT 2 binding / Saxon CE discussion for further discussions. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-forms-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1788 - Summarize the client-side XSLT 2 binding / Saxon CE discussion for further discussions. [on Kurt Cagle - due 2011-04-06].
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: ebruchez Found ScribeNick: ebruchez WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! Possibly Present: Alain Dan Erik IPcaller Leigh Leigh_Klotz Saxon-CE aaaa aabb aacc dmccreary ebruchez forms joined klotz kurt markbirbeck pfennell scribenick trackbot You can indicate people for the Present list like this: <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary <dbooth> Present+ amy WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Found Date: 30 Mar 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-forms-minutes.html People with action items: kurt leigh WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]