Shawn: I was on the road last week and recruited a few great new members. Denis sent an email introduction but is not able to join today. Char is a new member on the call.
... and Cliff is another new member also on call.
All: round of introductions
Shawn: In terms of planning the call, please let me know if there are items for discussion outside of the agenda so that I know how much time to save for that at the end.
Sandi: I would like to understand more about the resources that will be avaialble to support current work with government.
Shawn: Let's you and I have the discussion off line first and then we will bring it to EO.
... OK, any comments about How People With Disabilities use the web suite of documents?
... we want to post them as a draft for public review and will then have a survey.
... let's review the specific comments from last time. What do we think of "Ways People Browse"? There is a link to the minutes and additional emailed comments.
Shawn: we try not to do too much wordsmithing in the group calls but occasionally will do so.
... any additional feedback from the email?
Wayne: Liam's email also included several good brainstorming suggestions.
Shawn: Yes and it is in the minutes at the bottom, scroll down
... one of them is "Diversity of Web Use" and if you recall we thought it was too similar to the other title of a related page "Diversity of Web Users"
Cliff: Diversity of Browsing Behavior?
Sandi: Can we introduce new items...How Diverse Users Access the Internet
Helle: Concerned with Diverse...maybe say Different People?
Wayne: I like How Different People Read the Web
... not jargony
Char: Are we speaking of different people or different ways to browse?
Liam: People who are not you - that's what it is about
<LiamM> ambiguity is not necessarily a problem.
Sharron: like Liam said, it's all about people who are not you, but I think that ambiguity may in fact be a problem in this case.
<CharJTF> the issue I'm having is that "different" is an adjective for "people" in "different people"...could be "difficult people", etc.
Wayne: and there is negative about difference
<CharJTF> so if we're talking about different people, that's fine, but if we're taking about how people do things differently, that's another point
Sandi: the difference between disabled people (UK) and people with disabilities (US), and while it is both people and devices, ultimately it is people that we are focused on.
Shawn: To clarify Wayne's point, saying that people with disabilities are "different". We choose "people with disabilities" because it is less likely to cause offense to anyone.
<Shawn> Diverse Ways of Using the Web
<Shawn> Diverse Ways of Interacting with the Web
<LiamM> diversity of web use sounds nicest when you read out the tabs all together.
Sandi: How People of all abilities access the Internet?
<WayneDick> An Inclusive View of Web Use
<Sandi> I'm always for Inclusive
<WayneDick> A Broader Look at Web Use
Shawn: Remember that this page talks about the fact that assistive tech is an adaptive strategy. It is about strategies and techniques that support people with disabilities
Sharron: Adaptive tools and techniques?
<Shawn> The tools and techniques that people use to interact with the web
Char: Are all tools adaptive?
<hbj> Like Sharron's idea
Liam: Line up individual titles and then Diversity of Web Users fits well.
Shawn: Not concerned with the similarity to Diversity of Web Use?
<Sandi> Diversity of Web Access and Use?
Liam: Think that the similarity is in fact a strength.
Cliff: What if we step back a bit and not try to put inclusive or adaptive in here, since they are techniques anyone can use anytime they need them?
<Shawn> This page is about Assistive Technologies and Adaptive Strategies
<Shawn> Different ways of using the Web
Cliff: Broaden it to All the Ways People Use the web
<Shawn> Different Ways People Use the Web
Sharron: But the purpose of this page is actually to focus on the AT and adaptive strategies.
<WayneDick> Adaptive Methods of Web Use?
<Sandi> Strategies for Accessing the Internet
Jennifer: What do we miss if we go with "Different Ways People Use the Web"?
... plain language
Wayne: I like that
Liam: I like plain
Char: Much happier with this
Cliff: I agree
<Shawn> Different Ways People Use the Web
<Sandi> Yup, Very straightforward
Helle: Easy to translate
<Shawn> title: Assistive Technologies and Adaptive Strategies
Shawn: Now let's check one other thing. How do we feel about Adaptive Strategies and Assitive Technologies
Sharron: I like that because it is what the content it actually about.
Cliff: But those words may not mean anything to people who are not experienced
Helle: Adaptive strategies may be too much jargon
Sandi: Even for people with disabilities, this could be confusing.
<Shawn:> Different Ways People Use the Web
Shawn: OK then we are settling on Different Ways People Use the Web
... propose that we make this change for now.
<Shawn> ACTION: Shadi, HowPeopleUseWeb: change page title to Different Ways People Use the Web [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/25-eo-minutes.html#action01]
<Shawn> SUBTOPIC: First sentence of http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/PWD-Use-Web/2009/browsing
Shawn: consider intro sentence of Ways People Browse page. Do we want to wordsmith it now, strong feelings about changes? Happy to leave to editor's discretion?
All: No objection to editor's discretion.
<Shawn> ACTION: Shadi, HowPeopleUseWeb: First sentence of http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/PWD-Use-Web/2009/browsing - leave to Editor's discretion based on comments in e-mail thread [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/25-eo-minutes.html#action02]
Shawn: Next is on the Overview Page, there is a Tip added to the bottom. We link to outside resources very cautiously and well-vetted.
... this one came from a request from a disability org who liked the resource but wanted videos.
... any concerns with this link? any additional pages to link to? are you OK with how the Tip is presented?
Liam: Happy about the link, no additional suggested links, OK with presentation.
Jennifer; could change "background" to "supporting"
Shawn: suggestion for editor's discretion?
Jennifer: that works
<Shawn> ACTION: Shadi, HowPeopleUseWeb: "Tip: You can find additional background materials" --> "Tip: You can find additional supporting materials" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/25-eo-minutes.html#action03]
Shawn: So let's do a quick walk through of this suite of pages.
<Zakim> WayneDick, you wanted to say Sandi's point was an important one. PWD will come here for help. ...
Wayne: Sandi brought up something that is very important. People with disabilities go to w3 to find out how to do basic things like read, shop and work. This will be a serious audience for How People with Disabilities Use the Web. We might ask will this help someone bootstrap themseves into society.
Shawn: From this page, should we point to "Better Web Browsing"?
Jennifer: Excellent point, it is very closely related
<Shawn> currently under Getting Started with Web Accessibility http://www.w3.org/WAI/gettingstarted/Overview.html is linked to Better Web Browsing: Tips for Customizing Your Computer http://www.w3.org/WAI/users/browsing
Shawn: Perhaps it should be right there in the intro so PWD don't have to wade through all the rest.
Jennifer: I would never think of referring PWD to the W3C to learn this stuff. People who do Usability testing are a more likely audience to help them start thinking abut their users in new ways. Putting it in the intro could help both groups
Cliff: are you saying this will help usability professionals round out personas?
Jennifer: Yes, and do you agree?
Cliff: Seems like it would be very useful.
Sandi: and for UX people
<Shawn> ACTION: HowPeopleUseWeb: outreach & SEO to get usability/UX/UCD people to know of this resource for developing personas [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/25-eo-minutes.html#action04]
Shawn: In intro to "Different Ways People..." point to "Better Web Browsing"
... for editor's discretion?
Jennifer: No strong opinion, happy to leave to editor.
<Shawn> ACTION: Shadi, HowPeopleUseWeb: in the introduction of http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/PWD-Use-Web/2009/browsing point to BWB doc <http://www.w3.org/WAI/users/browsing> - and also consider putting in the Overview [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/25-eo-minutes.html#action05]
Sharron: yes, good summary
Shawn: any additional overview comments?
Wayne: Maybe another persona? User design people need to understand that just about any job you can do could be done by people with disabilities. Often have my students take one of their scenario people and give them a disability.
<Sandi> Disability awareness is a massive issue amongst UK SMEs
Wayne: these are high-functioning, professional people
... are we hitting the percentages of employed?
<Sandi> 67% of VI people of working age in the UK are unemployed
Shawn: all our personas are employed, retired or teenagers
... is that OK?
Wayne: hard social phenomena that we provide this bootstrap stuff and the reality of employment is not that easy.
Jennifer: excellent point
Shawn: to address Liam's side point the SEO outcomes can be improved by adding personas
... one of the high priority items is to improve SEO
Liam: but it is depressing to learn how few people search for anything to do with accessibility
<Shawn> ACTION: HowPeopleUseWeb: outreach & SEO to get usability/UX/UCD people to know of this resource for developing personas -- Shawn, add to http://www.uiaccess.com/accessucd/personas.html a link to HowPWDsUseWeb and maybe ask for http://www.steptwo.com.au/papers/kmc_personas/index.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/25-eo-minutes.html#action06]
<Shawn> ACTION: HowPeopleUseWeb: outreach & SEO to get usability/UX/UCD people to know of this resource for developing personas -- Shawn, add to http://www.uiaccess.com/accessucd/personas.html a link to HowPWDsUseWeb and maybe comment on http://www.steptwo.com.au/papers/kmc_personas/index.html. (link only "personas") [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/25-eo-minutes.html#action07]
<Sandi> can't get back into the call
<Shawn> ACTION: Shadi, HowPeopleUseWeb: to http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/PWD-Use-Web/2009/scenarios#onlinestudent add her employement (ask Shawn if need background) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/25-eo-minutes.html#action08]
Shawn: any additional comments?
... let's walk through now
Ian: You can find background materials...doesn't seem helpful. Can we provide keywords to search for?
Shawn: This was specifically to point to videos and the list we point to is comprehensive.
... how would you suggest that we be diplomatic about it but more smooth than this is?
Ian: There are additional background materials available such as...these
<Shawn> Ian: There are additional supporting materials available on the Web, such as _videos of How People with Disabilities use Web_.
Jennifer: Since Shadi is making the changes, can we make sure he sees these together?
Cecilia: Looks like the link text is capitalized, is it a title? otherwise should be a general reference.
Shawn: It has been mentioned, do we feel strongly about it or mention it and leave to editor's discretion?
Cliff: capitalizing is probably OK but if it is too much different, should reconsider
Cecilia: sounds OK to me
Jennifer: but good to consider
Shawn: upper case? lower case? editor's discretion?
Char: lower case
<Shawn> ACTION: Shadi, HowPeopleUseWeb: Overview page: change tip text to: "There are additional supporting materials available on the Web, such as _videos of how people with disabilities use web_." (consider lowercase since not exact title) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/25-eo-minutes.html#action09]
Shawn: Scenarios of web users, shall we add personas within intro?
Jennifer: Yep, bring 'em on in!
Cliff: there is an elegant way to do that, not sure I have it at the top of my head.
Shawn: I will put general action item, Cliff can think about it and send to the list.
Helle: Not sure most people know what personas are - a bit jargony.
Cliff: Could introduce with a segue ...consider these scenarios as you build personas of your typical users
... thereby putting it in context.
<IanPouncey> From Wikipedia: "Personas are fictional characters created to represent the different user types within a targeted demographic, attitude and/or behavior set that might use a site, brand or product in a similar way."
Shawn: Doesn't exactly define what a persona is.
Helle: Sounds as if we are talking to web designers who know what that is.
<IanPouncey> ... "A user persona is a representation of the goals and behavior of a real group of users."
Shawn: What if we make this conditional "If you use personas..." something along that line?
Helle: I can't think of more than a handful of people who would understand
Cliff: ...personas or other representations.
Cecilia: The information on this page is to help people understand barriers and also a resource for developers building personas.
Helle: Yes, that could work.
<Shawn> ACTION: Shadi, HowPeopleUseWeb: stories/scenarios page: consider mentioning personas in intro, although carefully since not everyone know what they are. maybe something along the lines: If you develop personas, you can use this info in developing them. (personas could link to http://www.uiaccess.com/accessucd/personas.html ) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/25-eo-minutes.html#action10]
Wayne: One more thing to say about the personas - I have a student with a visual disabilities who works as a graphics programmer for Pixar. Could Ms Martinez be soemone like that?
Cliff: I like that he has visual disabilities and is a graphics designer
Helle: Question about the expand all sections without any space in between.
Shawn: Please send screen shot to WAI editors
Cliff: Looking at title bar and nav menu, the new title "Different Ways People Use the Web" now looks very word heavy.
Jennifer: Yes, it does.
Shawn: May be a couple of weeks before we make these changes and do the survey. A reminder that if you have substantive changes that need EO discussion, send to main list. if you have typos, wordsmithing, send to editor's list.
<Shawn> wai-eo-editors <email@example.com>
Shawn: Will definitely take place. And we have a potential, very cool host. Wanted to also ask the group about opening up part of the meeting to broader local partipation?
Sharron: Meeting in pub? How cool would that be?
Helle: The afternoon open forum, when would it be scheduled?
Shawn: It is open for your ideas
Helle: Some of the meetings we did earlier were opened to others and often led to good input and very nice discussions
Shawn: Would it be helpful to do something similar at this time?
Helle: Yes it could be and to coordinate with other activities of organizations doing related work
Shawn: Do you feel that we need all of the time for our core work or should take advantage of the outreach opportunity.
Ian: Outreach does seem like our core work.
Sharron: all for outreach, other groups, collaborative potential
Shawn: Did a session at CSUN touring new WAI resources. People really liked it and more than half the group had accessibility experience.
Jennifer: It is more memorable when you hear from someone
Shawn: and I was able to highlight what each type of user might get from different pages
... any additional thoughts on that please let me know.
Jennifer: What about the meeting on the dwarf planet next week?
<Shawn> check out http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/availability/results