Web Events WG Voice Conference

15 Feb 2011


See also: IRC log


Art_Barstow, Matt_Brubeck, Doug_Schepers, Olli_Pettay, Josh_Soref, Dzung_Tran, Cathy_Chan
timeless, Art, Josh


<timeless> Scribe: timeless

<ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB

<scribe> Scribe: Art

Date: 15 February 2011

<scribe> Scribe: Josh

<scribe> ScribeNick: timeless

1. Brainstorm for agenda topics ...

MB: We want to talk about Mercurial workflow

DS: yep
... We had talked about talking about Tracker

<mbrubeck> In the last telcon, we also talked about test suite code hosting and public forking/contributions.

Mercurial workflow

MB: Quick summary ...

<Dzung_Tran> I have a conflict, so I was just going to follow on IRC

MB: for SW, DS, myself -- editors, we need to decide how we are going to merge eachother's changes
... there are many things we could do
... two of the simple ones are ...
... using the CVS model where we each push/pull from a single centralized repo
... or we could each have our own repos, push our changes to our individual clones
... and once changes have been discussed, we could push to the official repo

DS: What are the advantages of each approach?

MB: The centralized approach is easier for people to follow
... The advantage of people publishing changes before they're integrated is that it provides a way for people to review proposals before they're made

DS: So this touches on Review then Commit or Commit then Review model
... traditionally @W3C we follow a Review then Commit
... WebApps, CSS(?), all use Commit then Review
... In the newer browser centric groups, we typically do Commit then Review
... it tends to be faster and provides context for review

MB: In distributed you can do Commit, then Review, then Merge (=Accept)

DS: I think that's OK

MB: We could do any of these
... If the editors want to use a central repo
... And other people especially people without write access could use clones

DS: I tend to favor for non controversial changes, in order to make it easy for people to understand what's going on with the group
... using the central repository for the three editors
... But if we have controversial things, we could do something else

MB: I think that's OK, since there aren't many editors

DS: I'm very intrigued by the prospect of having distributed changeset.
... people sending in patches on a mailing list
... I like the idea of multiple editors getting their ideas out there
... and letting people decide which works best

MB: And we'll probably see some of that
... we've already seen some of that w/ SW

DS: And i'll see some of that with Hg

MB: Using central you'll have simple pull merge cycle
... but it won't feel much different from CVS

JS: Another way to do things is to use Branches
... but I'm not at all in favor of it. Merely noting it's possible

AB: So it sounds like we're in favor of using a central repo
... does that seem like a fair characterization?
... Anyone else have feedback/input?

RESOLUTION: Stick with central repo

DS: So, we covered what + how
... but we haven't talked about The Who
... Do we want to have MB/SW make some changes?

MB: I think I can do some simple changes

DS: You can make some changes and cause me to need to do a merge.
... It will be good practice for you (editing) and for me (merging)
... MB: have you ever been an editor before?

MB: no

AB: So we also agreed to a Commit then Review model

RESOLUTION: We will follow the Commit then Review model

AB: ... this will align us with the other groups DS mentioned

DS: I'd also like to use this group to do some experimenting
... but for starters, I think this is fine
... so MB, for next week, you'll make some small changes?

MB: Yes, I'll look through the issues on the mailinglist and see which ones I can address

DS: I think that leads us to our next topic


DS: So, Tracker is our issue tracker

<ArtB> tracker: http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/

DS: Let's walk through creating an issue and creating an action
... MB: have you used Tracker before?

MB: No, I haven't

DS: It's rather simple

<shepazu> ACTION: matt to update touch events spec for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/15-webevents-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-11 - Update touch events spec for next week [on Matt Brubeck - due 2011-02-22].

<ArtB> Scribe+ Art

<ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB

<mbrubeck> and then I can see http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/11

DS: can create Actions via IRC interface
... and can create Issues via IRC as well

<shepazu> issue: resolve touch area re. radius and angle

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-1 - Resolve touch area re. radius and angle ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/1/edit .

DS: (provided trackbot is running ...)

<shepazu> issue-1?

<trackbot> ISSUE-1 -- Resolve touch area re. radius and angle -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/1

DS: then in IRC, can say "ISSSUE-n?" where n is an issue number
... and trackbot will dump out the issue
... same thing works with "ACTION-n?"
... don't forget the "?" at the end
... Raised state means raised
... Open means WG agreees it is an issue

<scribe> ... Pending state means we are awaiting feedback

<scribe> ... Postponed state means the Issue will not be released in the current spec (postponed to v2)

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: Can also select the issue/action's "product"
... currently we just have the one Touch Event product

<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/mid/4D470F74.9020208@canonical.com

DS: after an Issue is created, an email will be sent to public-webevents
... if an email includes a {ACTION,ISSUE}-n tag, that email's archive link will be added to the issue or action

<shepazu> issue-1?

<trackbot> ISSUE-1 -- Resolve touch area re. radius and angle -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/1

DS: f.ex. if you look at the issue I just raised: http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/1
... you will see the email trail
... can also define a "short name" for Issues
... which can be convenient way to identify an Issue

<shepazu> action-1?

<trackbot> ACTION-1 -- Arthur Barstow to work with Doug on a voice conference time of day that works for most people -- due 2010-12-15 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/1

<shepazu> action-11?

<trackbot> ACTION-11 -- Matt Brubeck to update touch events spec for next week -- due 2011-02-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/11

DS: Issues and Actions created in IRC are "bare bones"
... Need to use Tracker's Web interface for more advanced management tasks
... f.ex. can change due date (which defaults to 7 days from creation date)
... tracker scans all emails on public-webevents
... for {Action,Issue}-n tags
... and adds a link to the emails archive to the Action or Issue

MB: does Tracker track mercurial changes?

DS: no, I don't think so
... but we may be able to make something like that work
... there is an option to do that for CVS
... but sure about Mercurial
... I'll need to talk to sysadmin team at W3C
... we may also be able to connect commits to twitter

AB: I've been using Tracker for years
... it's easy to use and that's good
... may be missing some features Bugzilla has
... but overall, it's a good tool

DS: a disadvantage to Bugzilla is all of the comment treads are kept in Bugzilla, whereas with Tracker, email is used for comment threads

AB: anything else on Tracker for today?

DS: I just logged one issue based on comments from two different people

<mbrubeck> ACTION: Matt Brubeck to raise issues on Tracker for previous mailing list discussions. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/15-webevents-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-12 - Brubeck to raise issues on Tracker for previous mailing list discussions. [on Matt Brubeck - due 2011-02-22].

DS: it may be good for Matt (and others) to create Issues based on comment from the list

JS: how does one get support for Tracker?

DS: everything is handled by W3C sysadmin team
... and I can be your conduit to that team

AB: yes, please notify Doug and I if you have any Tracker issues and we will follow up

DS: I would like to walk thru a merge

MB: let's do that after the call


Technical Discussion

AB: I have some open action; I'll get to them RSN

DS: we didn't get much response about UCs and Reqs
... but could defer them until next week
... re Andrew Grieve's email ...
... we may want to create some issues

<shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JanMar/0043.html

DS: re what should happen if touch is dragged off the screen ....
... I think that is already addressed in the spec -> touch cancel
... I significantly changed touch cancel
... oh, Matt, we should talk about "ReSpec" which is used by the Touch Events spec

<mbrubeck> issue-2?

<trackbot> ISSUE-2 -- What should happen when a touch is dragged off the screen -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/2

AB: I don't think anyone has responded to the email

DS: I will respond to Andrew's email
... will need to tighten up the spec re what happens when touch is moved offscreen
... Matt, can you look at that?

MB: yes

DS: re 2nd issue ...

OP: I think this is closer to a mouse use case

<mbrubeck> re issue-2, different hardware devices may or may not be able to detect whether a touch was dragged off the screen or released normally.

OP: need to check this on an Android or iPhone

DS: I could test this

<mbrubeck> issue-3?

<trackbot> ISSUE-3 -- Click event target after DOM mutation during touchstart -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/3

DS: would be good if someone would write a test though
... any volunteers for that?


DS: ok, I'll write it

<mbrubeck> issue-4?

<trackbot> ISSUE-4 -- Does preventDefault on touchmove cause a dragging motion to fire a click event? -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/4

<scribe> ACTION: doug create a test for ISSUE-4 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/15-webevents-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-13 - Create a test for ISSUE-4 [on Doug Schepers - due 2011-02-22].

OP: remember to test mouse up and mouse down

MB: iPhone synthesize mouse up/down
... mouse up, mouse move, click
... needed for compatibility of apps that know about mouse events but not touch

DS: what are we doing about preventDefualt in general?

MB: will be impl-specific
... e.g. safari pans with touch move

DS: we don't define all default actions the UA can take
... but we can define what preventDefault does
... There could be some issues around timing
... that we may need to define

<mbrubeck> MB: In mobile Firefox, for performance reasons, we also might want preventDefault on touchstart to affect which other touch events are fired. For example, if you don't preventDefault on touchstart, then no touchmove/touchend events will be dispatched.

DS: other than "don't do that"
... that's good info
... perhaps you should put that in the spec

MB: let me bring it up on the list first

DS: sounds good


AB: let's continue discussion on the lsit
... and meet again next week

<mbrubeck> shepazu: Want to try a merge?

AB: Meeting adjourned

<mbrubeck> We can remove the "test" and "test2" files

<shepazu> mbrubeck: yes, give me 15 minutes

<mbrubeck> ok

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: doug create a test for ISSUE-4 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/15-webevents-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Matt Brubeck to raise issues on Tracker for previous mailing list discussions. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/15-webevents-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: matt to update touch events spec for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/15-webevents-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2011/02/15 17:00:49 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/tracker/Tracker/
Found Scribe: timeless
Found ScribeNick: ArtB
Found Scribe: Art
Found Scribe: Josh
Found ScribeNick: timeless
Found ScribeNick: ArtB
Scribes: timeless, Art, Josh
ScribeNicks: ArtB, timeless
Default Present: Josh_Soref, Art_Barstow, Shepazu, Matt_Brubeck, Olli_Pettay, +1.781.266.aaaa, Cathy
Present: Art_Barstow Matt_Brubeck Doug_Schepers Olli_Pettay Josh_Soref Dzung_Tran Cathy_Chan
Regrets: Sangwhan_Moon
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JanMar/0048.html
Found Date: 15 Feb 2011
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/02/15-webevents-minutes.html
People with action items: brubeck doug matt

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]