See also: IRC log
Tony: having arrays instead of list would be better btw
Steve: is there any discussion on measures?
Anderson: we discussed that in the past, either within the standard or as best practices. like in a library. we felt like having the measures there was icing on a cake, ie not a requirement
SteveSouders: Measures have key
and values, key the name and the values is the delta. Every
framework and look at the measures way to consume it in a
standard way.
... Be able to see the phases overlayed overtop of HTTP
requests. If it's not in a standard array, dev tools and
analytics will not be able to readily access the phases.
... In Web 1.0 we used to be able to use Done, but in Web 2.0,
we'll have to use visual indicators, sending waiting for,
spinning cursors and etc. If we had measures with standard
names, when that measurement was set the browser would say done
in the status bar.
TonyG: The idea is that we
standardized Marks themselves, such as mark fullyLoaded. The
question marks versus measures, do we allow the page to say
mark a time here, or does a web developer say start/stop
time.
... As we went thru Nav Timing, not everything has a complete
pair of start-stop pairs. Marks seem much more general and
having measures on top of that may not have additional
value.
... Is the format a single time or a start-stop was the
question we asked ourselves.
SteveSouders: Certainly we want
to do marks. Certainly marks have a paired start and end. In a
page you may have 5-25 marks and web developers may face
ambiguity with custom markers.
... Going to have write logic for Pingdom, Gomez, Keynote.
Otherwise standardizing the phases, the consumer of these marks
can be ignorant of custom markers.
TonyG: There's cost to maint.
code bloat to the API surface. We need to be careful about what
we add. I wanted to expose the simplest set of tools to build
this functionality. I didn't want to build application logic
into the platform.
... We want a simple way to mark with a high performance
counter at a given time and a standard place to get those
marks. Additional logic can be considered application
logic.
SteveSouders: If we don't have measures, frameworks will quickly write measures library and we won't have industry standards. These frameworks, dev tools and metric companies may not be able to come with their own representation.
TonyG: What are your thoughts Nic and Anderson?
NicJ: We like the idea when we
designed it we had Marks and Measures in PPB6 and even in the
IE9 Beta before removing it to conform with Navigation
Timing.
... We agree with the benefits of standardization and
mitigating fragmentation. We can provide some sort of
standardized Library, I don't know if that would be enough of a
standardized.
... We leaned towards efficiency and shipping on time.
AndersonQuach: We need to flush out the marks and phases to help web developers use standardized markers like fullyLoaded, aboveTheFold, interactive, and visible.
SteveSouders: Definitely a lot of details need to be flushed out, how do we guide developers with the scenarios with a send email phase, with a corresponding start and end times.
AndersonQuach: I wanted to touch base on what we do for in document mark-up replacement.
TonyG: It's described in the domComplete attribute where only the first time the event fired.
NicJ: We need to add it to domContetLoaded and loadEvent.
<plh> If the current document readiness changes to the same state multiple times, domLoading, domInteractive, domContentLoadedEventStart, domContentLoadedEventEnd and domComplete must return the time of the first occurrence of the corresponding document readiness change.
plh: [prior in the call] we need at least two implementations to move PR. We could do more but it's up to us. Since we have experience in mozilla, ie, and webkit engine, it doesn't seem we would gain much in waiting. and nothing prevent us from doing a navigation timing 2.0 if we want to. for CR, we need Zhiheng to make his latest editorial changes and we can then decide to move to CR for the duration of CR, it's also up to us. We need to have the tests and implementation report to move out of it. We could skip CR if we have those already btw
i. Anderson will Update UserTiming to use type Array instead of PerformanceAssociativeMarkList.
ii. Update mark method, should note that it's of 1ms or high resolution.
iii. CR Review and proposed recommendation feedback, processing model, security and privacy to discuss on 2/16
iv. Flush out standard marks, their definitions and measures, the start-stop times.
v. Update domComplete, loadEventStart, loadEventEnd, domContentLoadedStart, domContentLoadedEnd to take the time stamp of when the event first fired.
set logs world-visible
<plh> I took some notes before you arrive
<plh> let me add them into the records
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: AndersonQuach Inferring Scribes: AndersonQuach Default Present: +1.650.823.aaaa, +1.650.214.aabb, [Microsoft], Plh, +1.650.450.aacc Present: +1.650.823.aaaa +1.650.214.aabb [Microsoft] Plh +1.650.450.aacc NicJansma TonyG Zhiheng SteveSouders WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Got date from IRC log name: 09 Feb 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/02/09-webperf-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]