See also: IRC log
<antoine> Previous: 2011-01-27 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0160.html
<ww> strange... calling the boston number forwards me directly to W3C admin assistance...
<jodi> ww: worked ok for me
<kefo> first time I called it forwarded me to admin assistance. second time I got through
<ww> jodi: worked the second time
<digikim> hmm...
<digikim> who am I? :)
<TomB> Meeting: LLD XG
<TomB> Chair: Antoine
<pmurray> zakim aaaa is me
<digikim> I'm either P4, P13, P9, P10, P18 or P19 :)
<jodi> hang up and call back?
<digikim> argh :)
<kcoyle> kcoyle present+ kcoyle
<digikim> ??P1 is me, but Zakim doesn't accept it...
<digikim> (can somebody solve it?)
<scribe> scribe: felix
<antoine> Scribenick: fsasaki
<antoine> PROPOSED: To accept http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html
RESOLUTION: previous minutes accepted
see also http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html
action on Antoine to include executive summary placeholder in report - has been done
<TomB> ACTION: Antoine to include executive summary placeholder in report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html#action01] [DONE]
<TomB> rrsagent please make record public
<scribe> ACTION: emma to put the Goals page content at the beginning of the use case section [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html#action02] [DONE]
emma: it is only a draft, would be great if everybody could review that piece of text
<emma> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport#State_of_the_art_use_cases_and_requirements
emma: not sure if it captures the essence of the use case
antoine: we can check it later, the action is clearly done, thanks a lot
<antoine> ACTION: emma to put the Goals page content at the beginning of the use case section [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html#action02] [DONE]
<scribe> ACTION: emma to add a 1.4 section (before recommendations) on problems and limitations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html#action05] [DONE]
<emma> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport#Problems_and_limitations
emma: only edited the section with a few links, we have to discuss what we want to put in here
antoine: thanks, we will discuss
that later
... now about "Fate of library standards and issues
pages"
<scribe> ACTION: GordonD to split http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_data and make recommendations on where to integrate into the final report [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html#action04] [DONE]
<kcoyle> link to page?
<antoine> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_data
<antoine> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_Data_Resources
<antoine> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Granularity_of_library_metadata
<TomB> Gordon, do you mean http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport#Datasets ?
<GordonD> Library Data Resources - needs a placeholder in Final report, in Available data section.
<GordonD> Library standards and linked data, following discussion at future telecon, probably fits the Problems and limitations section of the Final report.
(above and below are gordon's suggestions for reorganising the material)
<TomB> +1 sounds good Gordon
<jodi> +1
<kcoyle> you cna't hear me?
<kcoyle> i'm not muted
<kcoyle> ok, i'll type it in
<kcoyle> yes, i hear you
<kcoyle> possibly
karen: we gathered a lot of data
<GordonD> Final note for the record: the Granularities page is now incorporated in the Library standards and linked data page.
karen: I would like to see our
report to be an analysis of what we gathered
... we seem to be ending up with a list of information
... we should discuss how we end of with the analysis from that
list
... we don't know how all of those standards, librarry data
structure
... fits in into linked data
<TomB> +1 lists will get stale quickly - emphasizing analysis is good
karen: we have no answer, but a
question
... we gathered some data for beginning
... we need to say: here is a beginning of a task that needs to
happen
... i.e. how to go from library data to linked data
<emma> +1, karen !
antoine: sounds good
karen: somebody has to write that analysis part
antoine: couldn't that be for many of these sections?
karen: that is true for every section
antoine: agree, people should volunteer for curating these sections
<jodi> +1 to writers and reviewers
<jodi> +1 to appendices also
karen: some things which are in the report will end up to be appendicies with long lists of things
<TomB> +1 to pushing things into appendices
<GordonD> +1 for all these suggestions
<Zakim> TomB, you wanted to suggest that we have writers -- and _reviewers_
tom: completely agree with
karen
... in addition to writers we need reviewers
<jodi> also the better (more complete, more readable, ...) each section will get, from review
tom: the more we read the entire report the more we will understand the coherence of the report
<jodi> coherence++
tom: we are going to need to
iterate through all of these sections for a few times
... we need to get the authors themselves involved in thinking
about what a section is trying to do, how well it is
communicated, what is needed to be done
antoine: above comments in the
minutes makes a lot of sense for everyone
... should we record an action or resolution?
tom: no need for a
resolution
... creating the agenda (of calls) we should look for
reviewers
antoine: ok, let's discuss that in upcoming calls
<scribe> ACTION: gordon to update the draft report structure with suggestions he made concerning the wiki pages [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/03-lld-minutes.html#action06]
antoine: wiki page about granularity of library data is now obsolete
gordon: correct
... will delete content to granularity page, you may want to
remove that from the archives
antoine: there was a discussion on a storyboard, for the "youtube" page
tom: I would lead towards
dropping that as an action for the incubator group
... we are getting short on time, doing the report has a higher
priority
... I suggest that we continue it, but not as a critical
deliverable
... it is fun to think about these ideas, so I would be in
favor of continuing it, but not regard it as a deliverable of
the group
... shouldn't be a high priority
<GordonD> +1 Tom's suggestion
antoine: would keep it as trailing part of our agenda
emma: was an illustration for
library standards resoruce page
... tried to explain how library standards relate to each
other, to dublin core, linked data standards
... was an important step to draw it
<kcoyle> +1
antoine: should we start a discussion on the list?
emma: yes, but I have to update
it first
... some things we defined that should be integrated in the
last part of the diagram
<GordonD> I think it's important to include the broad relationships between components - I'd like to see the diagram in the final report
<scribe> ACTION: emma to update "layered model" diagram model and lead a discussion on it in the coming weeks [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/03-lld-minutes.html#action07]
karen: we have the page with a lot of presentations
<jodi> that list is VERY messy
karen: tom's idea was that we would extract some good illustrations that could be re-used
<jodi> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Presentations
karen: diagrams would be an
example, to be used to explain ideas
... but we need to discuss this - I would take an action to go
through presentations and see what we can use
tom: an idea was that we have powerpoint presentation as part of our deliverables
<jodi> it could also help in writing the executive summary
<jodi> i.e. what to say to "decision makers"
tom: I think we need to
concentrate our discussion on what our main results our
... not sure if we can have a PP presentation as an output of
the group
... but having some sort of a presentation format can become a
focus for discussing our message in a really condensed
way
... a lot of us will have an opportunity to give presentations,
would be good to have slides to draw upon
<GordonD> +1 for a standard presentation
<ww> +1 for materials and building blocks
<kcoyle> +1 for good set of graphics
antoine: good ideas - if somebody will take an action, I would be fine
<jodi> +1 for all of the above!
<jodi> kcoyle++
karen: I could look through the presentations and begin to extract some things, to help to start the discussion
<TomB> kcoyle++
<scribe> ACTION: karen to look through the presentations and begin to extract some things, to help to start the discussion [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/03-lld-minutes.html#action08]
<Zakim> emma, you wanted to be careful about property rights
emma: make sure that you have the right for the owners and that it does not conflict with W3C rules
karen: sure
<Zakim> TomB, you wanted to suggest that we give credit
tom: we will give people give credit on the bottom of the slides, with regards to the source
antoine: wiki page you created
"library data and semantic web formats"
... can we declare that page as superseded by the CKAN
efforts?
ross: yes, I think we agreed on
that
... we can deprecate that wikipage in favor of CKAN
efforts
<scribe> ACTION: ross to deprecate the "library data and semantic web formats" and create a link to the CKAN efforts [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/03-lld-minutes.html#action09]
<jodi> 'deprecate' means that we'll be sure that any info on the wiki will get into CKAN, before deleting the page and redirecting it to CKAN?
<TomB> +1 happy with CKAN approach
ross: there is hardly any information on the page anyway
<jodi> Thanks, Ross! :)
ross: the information will go into ckan, and there will be a note that any information you have will go into CKAN, and how to do that
<AlexanderH> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Authority_data
<jeff_> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Authority_data
antoine: today talking about authority data cluster
jeff: still rough, still with
stuff that needs to be sorted out
... in UNIMARC a primary entity was defined, which authority
data is about
... it is about persons, organisations etc.
... some things are difficult to model
... if you think about the RDF ontology for example
... XYZ was thinking about a group of mathematicians
... not sure about how to model that in RDA
... the entities are the things which we are famiiar with from
FRBR
<AlexanderH> undifferentiated persons
jeff: in the US we tend to think
about personal things etc., modeling different types of
heading
... Antoine has modled parts of the MADS ontology nicely in
SKOS
<TomB> @emma: suggest continuing with wiki page discussion next week starting with Topics, Semantic_Web_terminology...
jeff: modeling in FRBR and
labeling stuff can be done in SKOS, as a basis
... Alexander is a little bit uncomfortable with modeling in
SKOS
... he would like to see some abstractions from SKOS
... not really comfortable with "real world object" term
... the concepts can be included in real world objects, so not
comfortable with re-defining real world object
... the metadata is not about the thing, but the properties of
it
antoine: the cluster is about reflecting what is in the use cases
jeff: a lot of use cases don't
think about conceptualisation
... very little what they have in common
... what is what makes them "authority"?
<marcia> maybe list those questions in the 'Limitations and Questions"
jeff: the model, a particiular
vocabulary being used, ....
... the kind o entities being there?
<kcoyle> +1 what antoine says - reflect differences as well as similarities
alexander: to answer the question
"what is authority data"?
... we try to make sure that we have a kind of indicator of
authority
... that is something what we should discuss on the list - what
is in, what is out?
... people can add information to linked data, and they can
mess it up
<GordonD> The question is: what "things" are libraries interested in - as authorities?
alexander: so is the organisation publishing something important for judging authority, or what else?
<GordonD> That is, of all the "things" that are the subjects of non-library triples.
antoine: if you feel you need the
input from the group on these aspects, please feel free to ask
about it
... issues are all important, we have discussed some of them
quite a lot
... but we may just want to resolve that there are some open
issues that we cann't finish now
... please discuss with the way you think it is useful
... I do feel that it is very important that we base our
discussions on observable applications
<GordonD> We can include the broader authority issues in the forthcoming telecon on the Library standards and linked data page
antoine: thanks a lot, Jeff, alexander, joachim
antoine: thanks for today, adjourn
<kefo> bye
<jodi> bye!
<rsinger> bye!
<AlexanderH> bye
<kai> bye
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/sasiki/sasaki/ Succeeded: s/appendicies/appendicies/ Succeeded: s/deliverble/deliverable/ Succeeded: s/METS/MADS/ Succeeded: s/FBRR/FRBR/ Found Scribe: felix Found ScribeNick: fsasaki Default Present: Jodi, michaelp, emma, rsinger, [IPcaller], +1.678.235.aaaa, +44.131.516.aabb, marcia, kefo, ww, felix, pmurray, +49.173.609.aacc, jneubert, TomB, kai, GordonD, jeff_, rayd, Asaf, kcoyle, jeff? Present: Jodi michaelp emma rsinger [IPcaller] +1.678.235.aaaa +44.131.516.aabb marcia kefo ww felix pmurray +49.173.609.aacc jneubert TomB kai GordonD jeff_ rayd Asaf kcoyle jeff? AlexanderH Regrets: Lars Uldis Mark Guenther Michel Monica Ed Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0169.html Got date from IRC log name: 03 Feb 2011 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2011/02/03-lld-minutes.html People with action items: emma gordon karen ross[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]